1920 Packard Truck

[Dan Petricca]

Up for sale is my 1920 Packard Model E Truck, the truck is all original and has been in my family for over 60 years. It always been inside and looks great but the engine is stuck. The truck is complete  but has one lens in the gas light missing. Please enjoy the pictures.

Asking Price is $42,500.

 

Contact,

Dan P.

724-263-9578

[Gunsmoke]

Wow, that's 2 rare ones in a row! I've never seen or heard of these, be a great topic of conversation at any car event.

[auburnseeker]

I've seen reference and photos of them in World War I accounts.  I thought maybe they stopped making them after the war,  but it seems they did indeed make them a bit longer. I thought by 1920 they would have had electric lights? 

[wayne sheldon]

Many large trucks (as opposed to the Fords, Dodges, and Chevrolets which used the same electric lamps as their cars) used gas headlamps well into the mid '20s, and a few even as late as 1930.

 

I have known that Packard and Pierce Arrow (and others including Paige) built trucks like this for many years. However, in all my years in the hobby, I have only seen a handful of survivors.

That truck is fantastic! And probably the best survivor I have seen.

[motoringicons]

What a great truck. If you have ever stood next to one, you know that early Packard trucks are simply massive machines. These early Packard trucks certainly have a following. This one looks like it is in great shape and the price seems fair. It will find a very appreciative owner soon.

 

Every time I see an early Packard truck, I think of Frank Malatesta driving onto the show field at Hershey in one of his two Packard trucks. Frank owned Horseless Carriage Carriers, one if not the first company to offer enclosed transport for collector cars. Someone must have photos of his early trucks somewhere, as they were a staple at AACA events during the 1970s and 80s.

Edited January 11, 2018 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

One of our local AACA region members is an

aficionado of Packard trucks, and has three.

 

Trucks at that time were used only for short

distances within town, often from the railroad

depot to wherever the delivery had to be made.

 

Our member quips that his trucks move so slowly

that "the bugs crash into the back of the truck, not the front!"

[wayne sheldon]

Oh, so very many years ago (about 45 years ago). Some very good friends of mine bought a 1921 Mack three axle truck, about three hundred miles from home. The truck was a rare pneumatic tire model, totally unrestored, and only had four good tires on it. So the four tires were strategically placed on the front and the two driven wheels, the idle rear axle now without wheels was chained up close to the frame. Besides, none of the three people involved had a commercial drivers license for three axles, so that got them by that problem (the Highway Patrolman didn't think it was funny, but them go anyway). Taking turns driving the Mack, or the modern pickup, and sleeping they drove night and day for two days before checking into a hotel for one night. After a good night sleep, it took most of a third day to get home. Except for one point, where they put the Mack into neutral and let her rip down a long, straight, hill, they drove the whole way home, mostly at about 15 mph. Bob always loved to look people square in the eye, and tell them that "the Mack's top speed was sixteen miles per hour, not seventeen, sixteen."

[trimacar]

That's a really neat truck.  Someone could have a lot of fun with that, albeit slowly.

 

Pierce made quite a few trucks, but as mentioned, the survival rate was very low.  A lot of them ended up in Europe, as Pierce built thousands of trucks for the WWI effort and they were shipped overseas.  If Pierce could have just held on until 1940 or so, WWII would have been good for the company too, and we'd be talking about 1950's Pierce Arrows....

 

There's a Pierce truck in the Gilmore Pierce Arrow Museum, it's huge.....   https://pierce-arrowmuseum.org/  

[Chris Myers]

On 1/8/2018 at 3:13 PM, Dan Petricca said:

Up for sale is my 1920 Packard Model E Truck, the truck is all original and has been in my family for over 60 years. It always been inside and looks great but the engine is stuck. The truck is complete  but has one lens in the gas light missing. Please enjoy the pictures.

Asking Price is $42,500.

 

Contact,

Dan P.

724-263-9578

 

[Chris Myers]

I will give you 5k to keep in the family.  Impressive story.

 

Chris Myers

[Dan Petricca]

Hi Chris and thank you for your offer. I though about getting it running again,  I have received so many wonderful comments about the truck. Its not an easy thing for me to let it go. Not sure who would even be able to work on such an engine thats almost 100 years old an be able to get it running again, as I would leave the rest of the truck as it is.

 

Cheers,

Dan P.

[Chris Myers]

Hi Uncle Dan, 

 

So is that a yes that I can give it a shot and look into getting the engine running? We can continue to keep it in the family and I can then do the leg work of fixing it up. 

 

Thanks for your consideration,

Chris 

[cahartley]

7 hours ago, Dan Petricca said:

Hi Chris and thank you for your offer. I though about getting it running again,  I have received so many wonderful comments about the truck. Its not an easy thing for me to let it go. Not sure who would even be able to work on such an engine thats almost 100 years old an be able to get it running again, as I would leave the rest of the truck as it is.

 

Cheers,

Dan P.

 

Trust me Dan.......there are THOUSANDS who can and would deal with that engine.......

[C Carl]

Yes. To get started , pull the plugs and put a sufficient measured amount of ATF in each cylinder. Put the plugs back in finger tight. Now , put liquid wrench on all articulations/linkages , and follow with a few drops of engine oil. Get any access to the valve gear , and lube with ATF for now. Drop the pan , and clean all sludge and the pickup screen. Lightly grease the inside of , and replace the pan , but just hang it loosely. You will be back to check the bearings , but for now just get things soaking and lubed. Check the water pump as best you can determine whether it will turn. A few drops of oil here , a grease cup there , etc. This is not very time consuming and is easy to do , should have been done a long time ago. Do this NOW while you are thinking about this old truck , or thinking about climbing Mt. Everest , or WHATEVER ! NOW ! This will give a head start for you or whoever gets the truck going again. This is an example of a classic warning about "A stitch in time ............... " , or "Better late than never". Good luck with your family truck , Chris. Let Uncle Dan know that you have the entire expertise of all of us here on AACA forums backing you up. Ask lots of questions , and you can be sure you have a friendly family here. We all look forward to following you progress , and first startup and drive. Oh : and keep a log book of the status of ALL your work.  Keep that log in the truck. You just never know ............................    - Carl 

 

P.S.  Where are you ? You may have someone here who is nearby and would love to help you. There is enormous satisfaction in getting sleeping old machinery running again. I just got an old truck , a '74 Chev 4WD 3/4 ton Suburban (a 4 speed , full time 4WD , as far as I know the only year this combo was offered - I particularly like it) , going today. Been sitting several years. Yeah , it was fun , but nothing like the thrill that awaits you ! 

[suchan]

I recently saw my first Packard truck at America's  Car Museum in Tacoma WA. Huge and beautiful! Here's to seeing this one put in running order!

[1912Staver]

Packard truck engines are quite a bit more complicated than typical truck engines of similar age. They use quite a few Aluminium castings and external tubes for oil and coolant.  There are many small fasteners with equally small studs. The studs are easy to snap off if the nut is frozen. And some of the fasteners use obsolete thread pitches so replacements usually have to be made rather than purchased.  The pistons are remarkably light Iron castings , very thin especially in the skirt and unusually easy to break. The water pump shaft on both my engines was badly scored , probably typical of most trucks from this era. The pump is difficult to dismantle and easy to damage. The gear drive off the timing gear is also not very user friendly. 

 I imagine the engines are somewhat similar to Packard car engines of the teens, so anyone with Packard 4 Cyl. or twin six experience will already have the necessary skills. They are a bit of a challenge for the inexperienced however. So go slow, and double check everything. There is a small air pump to pressurise the fuel tank which often will seize if the engine stands unused a long time. Remove it {easy} and make sure the piston is free before attempting to turn the engine otherwise it can easily be damaged.

 No talk of Packard trucks is complete without mention of the Packard Truck Organisation { PTO } and its remarkably devoted to all things Packard Truck creator David Lockard.  He is the number one man in the Packard truck world and a tremendous resource to anyone involved with these beasts.

 Greg in Canada

 

1918 Model E,  2 - 2 1/2 ton Packard  {in several hundred pieces}

Edited March 4, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Dan Petricca]

Thank you for the info Greg, If I do decide to break into this engine i will be carful, I have torn into many engine before but I just wasn't feeling it with this one.

 

Cheers,

Dan P.

[GasWorksGarage]

Hello all,

 

this truck is now in our possession. Its a nice truck. Thanks Dan! My question is , does anyone have an exploded view of the engine? I would like to see what I am getting into before we start. 

 

Thanks ahead of time,

 

Chester

 

[1912Staver]

As I mentioned above there is a very active Packard truck owners group { usually known as the "PTO"}. It is based in Pennsylvania however it has members in several country's . David Lockard is the central figure and main keeper of the flame for these old brutes. 

 There is a very good factory manual available for the series E trucks . It was printed in both a regular version and a U.S. government WW1 military contract version.  Both provide quite in depth information on the mechanical aspect of these trucks.  They are often found on ebay at widely varying prices. There seems to be quite a few more manuals around than trucks so a bit of patience should turn one up at a reasonable cost. I think I paid less than $50.00 for my copy.  If you see this in time there is one on ebay about to close for $35.00. The cover is a bit dog eared but that seems like a very decent price. Also a couple of others at closer to $100.00

 They are great old trucks , you should expect years of interesting ownership. 

 

Greg

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[GasWorksGarage]

2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

As I mentioned above there is a very active Packard truck owners group { usually known as the "PTO"}. It is based in Pennsylvania however it has members in several country's . David Lockard is the central figure and main keeper of the flame for these old brutes. 

 There is a very good factory manual available for the series E trucks . It was printed in both a regular version and a U.S. government WW1 military contract version.  Both provide quite in depth information on the mechanical aspect of these trucks.  They are often found on ebay at widely varying prices. There seems to be quite a few more manuals around than trucks so a bit of patience should turn one up at a reasonable cost. I think I paid less than $50.00 for my copy.  If you see this in time there is one on ebay about to close for $35.00. The cover is a bit dog eared but that seems like a very decent price. Also a couple of others at closer to $100.00

 They are great old trucks , you should expect years of interesting ownership. 

 

Greg

 

Greg,

 

yes I have been in touch with Dave, very knowledgeable and he sent me a copy of the manual he has. I was looking for something that shows the head coming off. I assume the head is separate from the cylinders and that the cylinders are separate from the lower block?

 

[1912Staver]

Sorry but these have a non-detachable head. Removal is not that bad as long as you go slow and steady.  I notice the original post states the engine is seized, this will definitely complicate things. I am not sure if you can lift the block clear with the pistons and con rods still in place as my engines were not seized when I dismantled them. The big end on the con rod is quite large so I have a feeling you may not be able to lift it up through the crankcase opening.  That means you will most likely need to free the pistons in their bores before lifting the block, all the standard techniques are well documented on forums , net , etc so I won't waste space here. Time, ATF, heat ,cold, more heat, Lots of patience!!

 Keep us posted, your truck looks to be remarkably well preserved!

 

Greg

[GasWorksGarage]

10 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Sorry but these have a non-detachable head. Removal is not that bad as long as you go slow and steady.  I notice the original post states the engine is seized, this will definitely complicate things. I am not sure if you can lift the block clear with the pistons and con rods still in place as my engines were not seized when I dismantled them. The big end on the con rod is quite large so I have a feeling you may not be able to lift it up through the crankcase opening.  That means you will most likely need to free the pistons in their bores before lifting the block, all the standard techniques are well documented on forums , net , etc so I won't waste space here. Time, ATF, heat ,cold, more heat, Lots of patience!!

 Keep us posted, your truck looks to be remarkably well preserved!

 

Greg

thanks, yes I began soaking with linkages and everything from day 1 and put mouse milk down the cylinders. a week after that I started with ATF. 

[GasWorksGarage]

22 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Sorry but these have a non-detachable head. Removal is not that bad as long as you go slow and steady.  I notice the original post states the engine is seized, this will definitely complicate things. I am not sure if you can lift the block clear with the pistons and con rods still in place as my engines were not seized when I dismantled them. The big end on the con rod is quite large so I have a feeling you may not be able to lift it up through the crankcase opening.  That means you will most likely need to free the pistons in their bores before lifting the block, all the standard techniques are well documented on forums , net , etc so I won't waste space here. Time, ATF, heat ,cold, more heat, Lots of patience!!

 Keep us posted, your truck looks to be remarkably well preserved!

 

Greg

Greg,

 

during original assembly wouldn't the connecting rods be assembled from coming down from the top? 

[1912Staver]

 Good point! It's been about 15 years since I stripped mine down and my recollection is getting a bit hazy.  However you are correct,  the opening in the top of the crankcase should be large enough. My pistons and rods are packed away in storage so I can't try one out .  It's a lot easier to deal with the block once it is separated from the crankcase. And you might find some of the pistons are still free.  Still a substantial mass to maneuver .

  What size is the truck ? They all look more or less the same but as the ton rating goes up so does the size of many of the parts.  My restoration project is a 2-2 1/2 ton  and I also have a rougher 3 - 3 1/2 ton that I bought for parts before I learned that 99% of the 3 ton is about 20 % larger. . All the parts look the same however almost nothing interchanges. It makes great yard art.

 

Greg

[John Mark]

I am an expert on these trucks. Any questions, let me know.  Here is a picture of the Packard truck I restored....(when I had hair).

 

Enjoy.  John Mark

[Restorer32]

We restored a 1928 Autocar 3 ton truck for Pfaltzgraff Pottery in York, PA.  It had 36x12  hard rubber tires and acetylene lights. They had several of these behemoths that ran a route from York, PA to the docks in Baltimore. They hauled clay flower pots to the docks and raw clay back to the factory. I wonder how long the trip took,  about 50 miles each way up and down the hills of the Susquehanna Trail on hard rubber. Truckers were a different breed then.

[GasWorksGarage]

7 hours ago, John Mark said:

I am an expert on these trucks. Any questions, let me know.  Here is a picture of the Packard truck I restored....(when I had hair).

 

Enjoy.  John Mark

Nice truck and thanks again everyone. I am in need of a splitdorf mag switch. as seen in these pics. The 1st pic is mine the 2nd I wish LOL

[1912Staver]

Actually your very original one appeals to me more than a restored one. Not everyone agrees but there is a strong school of thought that reasonably well preserved originals should not be restored any more than strictly necessary.

 

 

Greg

Edited September 13, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[GasWorksGarage]

Ok I have a brake question. I am trying to remove the rear drum shoes on the axle ( parking brake) I cant seem to get the maim pin out. 

Do I have to remove the through bolt that holds the clamp completely? 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

( see pic )

[GasWorksGarage]

Does anyone have a clear close up picture of how the rim attaches to the center hub? Where is the ring located?

 

I' am missing something here.

 

Thanks in advance

[VINCE BAKICH]

I own a 1919 Packard Truck and am thinking about selling, it's not as nice as this one but mostly all there.  If interested call (661) 979-9814 Vince Bakich, Bakersfield Calif.

[Andrewb62]

Today i have seen a 1916 packard fully and painstakingly restored and it was amazing. 

[steveinky]

On 9/12/2018 at 12:56 PM, GasWorksGarage said:

Nice truck and thanks again everyone. I am in need of a splitdorf mag switch. as seen in these pics. The 1st pic is mine the 2nd I wish LOL

What is the contraption left of the steering wheel with knobs and levers and 2 stout looking tubular mounts?

[1912Staver]

Packard called it a control column. It grouped all the controls in one place , spark advance , hand throttle  and one other which I forget. Magneto switch on the left as can be seen. And on the right which can't be seen in this photo light switches if the truck had the optional electric light package. The main body is a somewhat fragile aluminum casting. They are hard to find in undamaged condition today.

A good idea for driver convenience. A few other truck make of this era had similar ideas but Packard was probably the most popular.

 

Greg in Canada

[GasWorksGarage]

I have the engine back together, but I am in need of a starter. Any leads?

 

[1912Staver]

Starters are extremely rare. As far as I know they only fit Packard trucks. They were a rarely fitted option, most Packard trucks just had a flat metal cover where the starter was fitted. Several years there was a fellow selling a modern starter conversion for these trucks. I think David Lockard bought one for his Army Truck . And I know that the fellow briefly advertised them for sale in the Packard Truck organisation news letter. It seems to me they were reasonably pricy, but it is a complex mounting and drive system.

I have also seen ring gears and starters mounted on the short drive shaft between the clutch housing and the transmission. Not original at all but functional and good access .

 

David can probably supply further details . He is generally extremely on top of all things Packard Truck.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 8, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[GasWorksGarage]

On 7/8/2019 at 7:45 PM, 1912Staver said:

Starters are extremely rare. As far as I know they only fit Packard trucks. They were a rarely fitted option, most Packard trucks just had a flat metal cover where the starter was fitted. Several years there was a fellow selling a modern starter conversion for these trucks. I think David Lockard bought one for his Army Truck . And I know that the fellow briefly advertised them for sale in the Packard Truck organisation news letter. It seems to me they were reasonably pricy, but it is a complex mounting and drive system.

I have also seen ring gears and starters mounted on the short drive shaft between the clutch housing and the transmission. Not original at all but functional and good access .

 

David can probably supply further details . He is generally extremely on top of all things Packard Truck.

 

Greg in Canada

I have spoke to Dave a few times. He was able to send me some literature but no parts and doesn't know anyone. 

[noharet]

Bonjour

j'ai un camion PACKARD de 1918 

Sa restauration est presque terminee

j'aimerais rentrer en contact avec des connaisseurs

Cordialement Jean NOHARET FRANCE

[Eldovert]

Quick translation,

Hello

I have a 1918 PACKARD truck

His restoration is almost complete

I would like to get in touch with connoisseurs

Sincerely Jean NOHARET FRANCE

[lump]

That photo supplied above with the restored Packard truck is in front of a sign "PACKARD INDUSTRIES." Fred and Dan Kanter operate Packard Industries as a part of their Kanter Auto Products business. I worked with them doing their ads, catalogs, etc, for about 25 years. They have massive inventory of new and used Packard parts, plus mega-tons of sorted NOS and NORS mechanical parts for almost ALL kinds of domestic cars. Today, I have no business relationship there. They are just old friends. But in the years when I visited their facility, I was amazed constantly at their incredible supply of rare old amazing Packard stuff. Call them for Packard parts, if you need.