RichBad Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Hi, does anyone one have a copy of the rear diff rebuild details from a maintenance manual they could share? I’m about to start putting mine back together with new bearings and seals after a clean and paint and have some good tips from Bob B but wanted to have the instructions too. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Richard there is no manuals for these cars , so we can only go by means from the previous models up to 27 , will chat to you about this latter bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Thanks Bob, I remember that now. I didn’t want to trouble you with copying parts of your manual as you’ve got so much on. Is there anything else from the manuals that would help other than what you already told me? Going from what you said the following is what I noted (but may have got muddled on a few steps): 1. Assemble pinion assembly with light Pre-load on bearings (take out play and 1/2 turn more). 2. Fit diff assembly and set bearing to just remove free play (similar to wheel bearing) then approximately align gears. 3. Using blue (or thinned paint) on 1/3 of the gear adjust diff position and pinion to get correct alignment. 4. Adjust pinion assembly in/out to quietest position. 5. Fit half shafts and set with .005-.010” end play using shins on one side. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Rich when are going to put this togeather , talk to to me when an we can go ovrt it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 Ok, thanks Bob. I’ll get the pinion and diff assemblies put together and assemble them loosely to the housing then give you a call, perhaps at the end of the week. hoping to start the chassis on the weekend as it’s supposed to cool down - I think we’ve been having some of your weather down here recently! cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 9 hours ago, robert b said: Richard there is no manuals for these cars , so we can only go by means from the previous models up to 27 , will chat to you about this latter bob Hi guys. I have a 26 DB and will soon be picking up used parts, including a rear axle, from a 27. Do either of you know if the axle from the 27 is the same for the 26? Ratio, spring center spacing, etc. Did you make your own gaskets? Thanks Paul BTW - Nice looking work on the axle build Rich! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 When I replaced the crown wheel and pinion in my Dodge 8 I put them together and set them up in the vice with blue and all. Only when the clearance and bearing preload was right did it go into the axle housing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Bob will know the differences for sure. I know the series 128/129 are different from the earlier ones (e.g addition of handbrake and torque tube etc) but insides are probably mostly the same. The pinion/crown wheel will also vary between models to account for wheel size etc. i made my own gaskets, cork for the rear and thin gasket paper for the front. Used the rear cover as a template as the size and hole spacing is the same front and back. Thanks! Edited January 8, 2018 by RichBad (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Thanks for your help the other day Bob. Have now set it up following your instructions but not quite there yet. Pinion bearing pre load took a few goes as when I tightened the 2nd locking nut it would change the preload and make it too tight ( I guess it’s just taking up play in the threads in the main but). All feels good now. Then set the diff carrier which seemed to go well and lined up centrally. Fitted pinion and adjusted to get roughly aligned with crown wheel. Seemed pretty good and needed a small adjustment on the carrier position and then pinion to find the quiet spot. Then tried to check the contact pattern. Struggled with this, tried paint/ oil mix, lithium grease etc but couldn’t get a good read. Then tried permanent marker and this seemed to work but couldn’t get s typical pattern - perhaps because my gears are quite worn? Ive attached a few pics below. Crown wheel runout is ~0.006”, backlash is 0.010-0.012”. I tried moving crown wheel in and pinion out but couldn’t find a nice spot without a lot of noise. The drive contact seems to be mid point but too much towards the toe (I think that means crown needs to go out) but coast contact seems too far up the tooth (~3/4 up the tooth which I think says the pinion needs to come in). I haven’t tried taking the crown out more as I thought this may give too much backlash but not sure how much is too much. If I bring the pinion in it gets noisy quickly. Drive side at opposite sides of ring. Coast side at opposite sides of wheel Edited January 21, 2018 by RichBad (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, RichBad said: Then tried to check the contact pattern. Struggled with this, tried paint/ oil mix, lithium grease etc but couldn’t get a good read. That is the trouble I had. Then my adviser came along and told me I was finished and to put it in the car! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I would have used one of these. To check the accuracy of your adjustments, coat the ring gear teeth with a thin coat of red lead, white grease, hydrated ferric oxide (yellow oxide or iron), or Prussian blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Rich pinch some of the wife's lipstick works well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Richard I am inclined to try Ron sugestion with lipstick and see if we can get a better showing , wear is the big problem with setting these 80 plus years on . by the showing on the lee side the centering looks good but to far in mesh . The showing on the drive side is too hard to tell ,and as Ron sugests try lipstick as it will be a bit thicker , talk to you soon Bob Edited January 22, 2018 by robert b (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Awesome, thanks guys - will give it a try with the trouble and strife's lippy and see how that comes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 Tried with some blue today (may try Wife’s lipstick on the weekend) and got a better showing. Still not a typical pattern but definitely shows more. Seems to suggest pinion position is ok but need to move the ring gear out. Currently had 0.010-0.012 backlash - is it ok to increase this to get better tooth pattern? Drive side Coast side Transfer of blue from pinion to ring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Rich take the pinion out two notches and move the ring gear in one notch and see what happens , looks like pinion in to far bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 As someone who is facing this same process I am really appreciating the details you guys are providing. Thank you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks Bob i tried moving the ring out before I got your message. Backlash increased to 0.015 but contact seemed to move back towards heel giving more even contact across tooth. I don’t think it’s great to have that amount of backlash so will try your suggestion and go in a little more with the ring and out with the pinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Tried going in with the ring and out with the pinion. Backlash dropped to ~0.005 but noise seemed to pick up - moving pinion further in or out made noise worse so I checked the pattern. Seems a little too far out on the tooth but if I move the pinion in anymore it’s going to be very noisey so I’ll try backing out the ring one notch. Tried with the ring ring out one notch and definitely felt nicer and quieter. Haven’t moved the pinion yet but the pattern doesn’t look to bad... seems to have good spread between heel and toe but perhaps a little high on the tooth? Will try with the pinion in a little bit getting too hot now - time for a cold drink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Moved the pinion in 1 notch, noise seems ok and feels smooth. Pattern looks ok but not sure this could be too far in?? Thoughts... Drive side Drive side showing transfer of blue to clean ring gear teeth. Coast side Coast side transfer of blue to clean ring gears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 I thought it would be good to do a fresh run as had a lot of blue spread all over. Removed the pinion and cleaned all the gears and re-assembled to the previous position. Before applying blue again I checked the noise in both directions and there was slightly more noise in the drive direction so I backed the pinion out one notch - this was quieter (and even sound in both directions). Then checked the pattern again. I think it’s looking ok, still biased towards the toe but from what I’ve read it’s better to be biased towards the toe than the heel. Perhaps the pinion could go back in a bit to move contact towards the root but is it better to have a good pattern or less noise? drive side drive side - carryover of blue from pinion coast side coast side carryover from pinion Thanks! I think I’m getting there:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 To avoid going round in circles, keep a note of the positions of each component and the result. Then you move one and note that too. This will avoid testing the same positions again. And again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Because we are dealing with worn gear mesh results like this will show up , the tooth contact on flank side is looking good , drive side could be due to uneven wear. If you have found the spot of least noise in both directions than that is the best you will get. bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Rich, You never mentioned that your wife used BLUE Lipstick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 12 hours ago, robert b said: Because we are dealing with worn gear mesh results like this will show up , the tooth contact on flank side is looking good , drive side could be due to uneven wear. If you have found the spot of least noise in both directions than that is the best you will get. bob Thanks Bob! Being my first Dodge and first Diff I wasn’t too sure so your experience of these really helps! Funnily enough, I was reading through a 50s automotive handbook last night and it mentioned for worn gears work off the flank side as this would have less wear. I’ll finish off the assembly and then back to the chassis. It’s been too hot recently (soft southern boy not used to the heat and humidity) but cooled down now:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Thanks Spinney, I did keep a note of the position vs pattern (which helped stopping me going mad). Interestingly, I did see some variation even when going back to a previously tested position - I think just the listening and tightening of the pinch bolt on the pinion caused some variation. HaHa Ron, it works well - when I see the postie with blue lips I’ll know somethings up:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yes Rich that is some thing i forgot to mention that clamping of the bolt cam cause some change , but these diffs are very forgiving in there set ups , as long you have the least amount of noise in both directions that is all you can hope for on a 80 plus year old diff , the real test will only come when you put it on the road and hear what noise is there ,and if its too much we will find a way to correct it even if i have to give another crown wheel and pinion and start over. regards Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Hey Bob, I’m putting the rest of the diff back together but don’t have sufficient end play on the half shafts. Strange as I’m using the original bearings (they were in good shape) and same shims. Perhaps the bearings haven’t gone fully back on shaft and housing (although I pushed them pretty hard). I have used 0.065” of shims (3x 0.020 & 1x 0.005) and think I need another 0.030 to 0.040 extra to give ~0.005 end play. Seems like quite a lot of shims, is it best to add more or adjust the hardend pads at the end of the shafts? I think I may need to buy a few shims if you have any. cheers, Rich Edited February 1, 2018 by RichBad (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Rich have a look at shafts and see if there any whitness marks where the bearings were and how close the are now, shims aviable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Thanks Bob, should have thought of that myself! Pushed them harder and they have gone on a little further. Still need some more but didn’t want to push them any harder - perhaps before there was just a lot of paint and gunk on all the surfaces and now that they are all clean they sit down a little more. That or the housing shrunk:) I need 0.020 to 0.025 more to give 0.005” clearance. Do they need sealer on the shims when assembled? I’m guessing they don’t as it’s only grease in the housing and shouldn’t leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 11 hours ago, RichBad said: Do they need sealer on the shims when assembled? I’m guessing they don’t as it’s only grease in the housing and shouldn’t leak. Yes, as long as the inner seal works and keeps the diff. oil in the diff. Adding sealant will add thickness to the shims too, in unknown amounts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 Thanks, I’ll stay clear of sealer then. I’ve fitted modern seals to the shaft so shouldn’t get any oil leakage through to the bearing area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Rich i will be in tomorrow and dig out the shims for you , call you latter bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 Awesome, thanks Bob. If you get a chance to find a spare gearbox countershaft and the generator fuse holder that would great too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Diff all finished - thanks for your help Bob! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 I put more details of the rebuild here - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 What a great job! Should I dare ask how many hours it took? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Wheelmang said: What a great job! Should I dare ask how many hours it took? Thanks! I Didn’t keep track of hours. Getting the correct mesh probably took twice as long as all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Sorry about reviving an old thread. Can anyone here tell me a generic aftermarket part number for a 1928 inner axle seal? Will take outer seal number also is you know it.1928 Standard Six. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattml430 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, keithb7 said: Sorry about reviving an old thread. Can anyone here tell me a generic aftermarket part number for a 1928 inner axle seal? Will take outer seal number also is you know it.1928 Standard Six. Thanks. My outer seal is turning up today but the bearing carrier needs to be machined out a little to make it fit. My inner seals were a little to tight and ever so slightly deformed the seal but they still looked to seal ok on the axle. Fingers crossed they will be ok. I’ll post back the seal number when I pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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