1933 Boxing of frame

[Sactownog]

The frame on my 33 seems to be mildly boxed in. Not fully plated and I am not sure if this is something that is factory or maybe done later in vehicles life. 

 

It seems to be not like a normal "C" channel frame. 

 

Any input is appreciated. 

[Taylormade]

The frame was partially boxed from the factory, mainly the front portion ahead of the X-frame.

[Sactownog]

9 hours ago, Taylormade said:

The frame was partially boxed from the factory, mainly the front portion ahead of the X-frame.

ok, that is what I have found is partial boxed in with oval holes on the inside of the frame. 

 

if I was to want to put a flathead/V8 in the front, do you think it would need to be reinforced and boxed in more or the factory boxing up front would sufice? 

[JACK M]

6 minutes ago, Sactownog said:

 

if I was to want to put a flathead/V8 in the front, do you think it would need to be reinforced and boxed in more or the factory boxing up front would sufice? 

 

Probably not, But now that you have it running well I don't think there will be much gain.

 

I had to cringe a bit when you said your mechanic was using starter fluid regularly. That stuff kills engines. I have always maintained that if it wont fire on gasoline there is something else wrong.

[Sactownog]

16 minutes ago, JACK M said:

 

Probably not, But now that you have it running well I don't think there will be much gain.

 

I had to cringe a bit when you said your mechanic was using starter fluid regularly. That stuff kills engines. I have always maintained that if it wont fire on gasoline there is something else wrong.

it was the Mechanic that I originally got the car from, he started it shortly showing that the motor would start. then turned it off, so it was a short period of time.

 

My personal mechanic used a small amount to help start the engine then we figured out the Float in the Carb was not adjusted correctly so we worked it out and now it runs on its own with regular gas.

 

however I may want to put a v8 in the vehicle later OR take out the flathead 6 and BEEF IT UP to make it a powerful 6 flathead which I think could be equally cool as well as keeping the originality of the vehicle. 

 

was just curious about the boxing in frame part, just think I got lucky that Dodge provided the extra strength. 

[R.White]

Please don't take this the wrong way but safety was not a strong consideration when these cars were built.  You presumably have non assisted drum brakes and cross ply tyres on  skinny wheels.  You might be able to make the car go faster but can you make it stop any better?  

 

 

Or do you intend to build a hot rod?

 

Just an observation, not a criticism.   

 

Ray.

[Sactownog]

27 minutes ago, R.White said:

Please don't take this the wrong way but safety was not a strong consideration when these cars were built.  You presumably have non assisted drum brakes and cross ply tyres on  skinny wheels.  You might be able to make the car go faster but can you make it stop any better?  

 

 

Or do you intend to build a hot rod?

 

Just an observation, not a criticism.   

 

Ray.

hey Ray, 

 

I am not planning to hotrod it right away, right now I am keeping it as close to stock as possible. however I am curious about the frame as it is semi boxed in. I may pump up the 6 cylinder to give it a little more umffff as it goes down the freeway, the brakes are all drum and I am aware of the lack of stopping power that they provide. 

 

I may in the future swap to a Mustang 2 front end and new rear end with better gears as well as change out the engine/drive train. however that is down the road quite a bit. 

 

for now I am just curious about the frame.

 

seems that every time I ask a question about changing this car from stock to something modified (lowering/motor swap/brake upgrade) people get all defensive and say "you should leave it stock" or "oh its to nice dont change it" lol 

[R.White]

You did say "any input is appreciated".  

[Sactownog]

10 minutes ago, R.White said:

You did say "any input is appreciated".  

Yeah please don't take it the wrong way all input is appreciated I know that in the classic car world there's always going to be the guys that like everything original and the guys that want to Hotrod and modernize these vehicles as well

[Ron Lawson]

Not being Picky cobber BUT these forums are for Stock, Original and restored to original vehicles not modified and hot rodded ones.  I have noticed over the time that I have been on this forum (about6years) that guys like yourself come on here asking for information and help then drop the bombshell that they are rodding the car. I am not alone with my thoughts " If you want a hot rod go buy one and refrain from altering an original car" Then they wonder why we go cold on them 

Don't get me wrong I have mates that are into Rods and some of the work that they do is beyond belief and I admire their skills or fat cheque book.Good luck with your car Ron

[Sactownog]

1 minute ago, Ron Lawson said:

Not being Picky cobber BUT these forums are for Stock, Original and restored to original vehicles not modified and hot rodded ones.  I have noticed over the time that I have been on this forum (about6years) that guys like yourself come on here asking for information and help then drop the bombshell that they are rodding the car. I am not alone with my thoughts " If you want a hot rod go buy one and refrain from altering an original car" Then they wonder why we go cold on them 

Don't get me wrong I have mates that are into Rods and some of the work that they do is beyond belief and I admire their skills or fat cheque book.Good luck with your car Ron

I completely understand that and I realized that a lot of people want to leave their vehicles stock which at this time I will be leaving my vehicle stock and I'm using these forms to learn about these vehicles specifically the 33 which doesn't seem to have too much info out there so I'm trying to figure out if the frame was Boxed In by someone or if it came from the factory that way and other things like where to get parts to keep it original not saying I'm going to modify it but it's good to have the information for the future especially from people who have good experience with these old cars as most of my experiences with more modern 1980s and newer style Vehicles this is my first actual classic restore car

[Taylormade]

Part of the reason folks are re-lying the way they do is that this site is dedicated to the care and preservation of original vehicles.  When we see a nice, original car like yours, we cringe at hearing about dropping a flathead V-8 in.  These cars are not conducive to drivetrain modifications due to the rubber Floating Power engine mounting system.  They are also geared and designed for speeds no higher than 55 to maybe 60mph.  Dropping a flathead Ford V-8 will get you little, if any, advantage over your original motor.  The fab work, new tranny, new rear end is a waste of time in my opinion.  Find a gutted Mopar and hot rod it if you like, but please preserve this beautiful old girl.

[Sactownog]

I do plan to preserve this car, I feel that it will be worth more in value and history preserved as an original. I will be keeping it as close to stock as possible. I even hate putting a new Master cylinder on the car because its so shiny and new and the old one fits the location much better. 

 

it will stay the same for a long time. 

 

 

[R.White]

It's a funny old world, isn't it?   One might have thought at a time when there is so much interest in preserving almost anything to do with our motoring past, there seems to be little appetite for restoring old cars to stock.  The high prices some hot rods fetch are quite a strong driver for anyone wishing to make the best financial outcome from a down at heel old vehicle so I am not surprised that those of us who tend to set aside profit in favour of authenticity are in the minority.   To put things into some perspective, if I was to find an old enamel sign with an automotive script - for example an advert for oil or petrol - from the 1930s, and I scraped off the paint to be replaced with a more modern script the value would be destroyed immediately.  I could still claim to have a 1930's enamel sign but in truth I would have ruined the historical AND the monetary value of the item.  

 

We have the right to do what ever we wish with our cars; after all, it's our property - but just because we can alter something doesn't necessarily mean that we should.  I often compare our motoring heritage with the African elephant.  It's fate is in our hands but if it goes extinct. - along with the Rhino and other rare animals - we will regret not having made the effort to save it.

 

Sorry, guys, I do go on a bit...

 

Ray.

[ply33]

10 hours ago, Sactownog said:

. . . just think I got lucky that Dodge provided the extra strength. 

 

Plymouth also has the front of the frame boxed. I suspect that was true across all the Chrysler built makes. So I guess that means your lucky that you finally discovered cars "engineered by Chrysler".

 

You may want to look around for some original sales literature. Things like the boxed X frame, cam ground aluminum pistons, full pressure lubrication, thin shell bearings, hardened exhaust valve seats, special alloy exhaust valves, "equalized" hydraulic brakes and all steel body were not offered by all the competition so were featured in the literature.

 

The original "operator's manual" (i.e. owners manual) has a lot of maintenance and repair information with good illustrations of cut-away components, etc. On the Plymouth side there are reprints available so I assume that is true for Dodge too. On the Plymouth side the first year for a factory service manual was 1934, so the information in the owner's manual is what was used initially to service and repair the car. I assume that 1934 being the first year for a factory service manual is also true on the Dodge side.

 

Other people have commented about 50 MPH on back roads. As long as your engine, drive train, suspension and brakes are in good repair, you should be able to run at 60 MPH. I will admit to touching 70 MPH on a flat section of freeway once when I was "seeing what it could do". The biggest thing I noticed was my passenger got pretty quiet.

 

I much prefer back roads at 45 MPH but if you need to get somewhere you can definitely go faster. A few years back when returning to the SF Bay Area from a meet in Tucson (about 900 miles) I held a pretty steady 62 MPH indicated on my speedometer (and the GPS/nav app on my phone agreed with the speedometer). For my thoughts on cruising speed see http://www.ply33.com/Misc/speed

Edited January 6, 2018 by ply33 (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

The boxing in of the front of the chassis may have allowed the maker to use a thinner chassis steel and still control flexing and thus handling and ride. It is still a fairly light, low-strength-steel frame. The 1930 Dodge 8 frame, with a heavier, longer engine, is not boxed. Remember, your car was made in the height of the great depression when sales were low, so it was built cheaply and the boxing was likely cheaper than a heavier frame section and the tooling required to make it.