Xander Wildeisen Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/d/1936-cord-sedan-westchester/6433086329.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 He is storing a Cord outside under a tarp? Looks like the bumpers were rechromed at some point, now going to crap from tarp storage. Wrong coast or the sedan would have potential for me for parts. But I spent my money , On the Garage First. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Tierney Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Don't jump to conclusions re' the west coast climate---while I've only been thru Walla Walla once (that was enough) I do believe it's generally in the dry part of the state...(I'm in Portland, OR)... The eastern 2/3 of both OR and WA are generally dry; get out an atlas and you'll see lots of miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles...hard to develop without water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Walla Walla? Dry and dusty hot summers, snowy cold winters. Thats pretty much the story for anything east of the cascades in WA. Look for Stevens pass, Snoqualmie pass, or White pass on a map. Anything east is dry. Edited December 31, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 The western half of washington state is dry. I think they call it "high desert". The phaeton is worth around 25k depending on how complete it is. The westchester is a 10k car. Easy entry to a couple of GREAT cars but a long long road ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, alsancle said: The western half of washington state is dry. I think they call it "high desert". The phaeton is worth around 25k depending on how complete it is. The westchester is a 10k car. Easy entry to a couple of GREAT cars but a long long road ahead. My mistake. If the Phaeton is in fact a Cabriolet then it is worth 30-35k or maybe a bit more. You probably see 3 or 4 Phaetons for every Cabriolet. Edited December 31, 2017 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 The problem with the sedan is you can buy a nice older restoration 85 point Cord sedan that runs & drives good for around 50-60K, making restoration of this one an uphill battle economically. But then again, a lot more people have $13000 in disposable income than $50000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 You are correct Jason. It is an entry point in to a great car. On the plus side: 1. ACD club is very active and supportive. 2. Parts are available 3. Complexity of the car is way overated. 4. One of the best looking prewar designs of all cars. 5. Very drivable car when well sorted. On the negative side: 1. 15-20 years worth of restoration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, alsancle said: My mistake. If the Phaeton is in fact a Cabriolet then it is worth 30-35k or maybe a bit more. You probably see 3 or 4 Phaetons for every Cabriolet. I think it's a phaeton from what I'm seeing in the picture, a cabriolet would have a much smaller opening in the tub. The area behind the front windows looks plenty big for both the rear window and the top cover. Alsancle hits on a very good point. The transmission electro-pneumatic controls scare some people off, but if you study and work on it, it's not that complicated. I was having some trouble with my Cord shifting, talked to a guru in the ACD club. His first question, are you planning to drive the car? Yes. He added that, if so, then I needed to personally work on the transmission, so that if I was stuck somewhere I'd know what to do. He said that, unless you're on an ACD tour, you're pretty much guaranteed that NO ONE else is going to know how to work on it. Turned out my problem was half mechanical (loose shift arm, sloppy shifting), half electrical (needed some wiring replaced and column switch rebuilt), and half pneumatic (rebuild valves). Yes, I know that's more than 100%, but work on one and you'll understand. Again, not complex if you break it down into components, but everything must work together. Personally, I think 10 would be a good buy on the sedan, 25 sounds a little high to me on the open car considering what picture shows. Auburnseeker, you should be buying the sedan, yes, $2K to move it to you, but then you'd have a "complete" phaeton, and the sedan partnered with it would add probably 20K to the value of your wrong-engine phaeton. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, trimacar said: I think it's a phaeton from what I'm seeing in the picture, a cabriolet would have a much smaller opening in the tub. The area behind the front windows looks plenty big for both the rear window and the top cover. Pictures made me think Phaeton, but description says Cabriolet which is why I was not sure. In either case, if the seats and top mechanism are missing you are looking at 10k right there. That doesn't include the new leather or new top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 28 minutes ago, alsancle said: Pictures made me think Phaeton, but description says Cabriolet which is why I was not sure. In either case, if the seats and top mechanism are missing you are looking at 10k right there. That doesn't include the new leather or new top. That's true, but let's say it's $25 K, and you spend another $150K on restoration (and yes, I know that a high end, full professional restoration would probably be more, but most people with any restoration experience could do it for that or less). 10K for your top and seats, $15K to upholster, 20K body work and paint, 20K chrome (actually, very little chrome on a Cord compared to most Full Classics), 25K mechanical restoration, 12K Richardson front end, 25K tires, small parts, instrument repair....that's $137K... You'd still be more or less in the ballpark of value, so it's one of the few cars you could restore and sort of come out on, with good examples hovering around $150K and superb examples bringing $200K. I know some people don't like talking money, but with the cost of restoration these days, it's an unfortunate consideration for those who don't have a lot of zeros in their bank accounts. Very few project Full Classics you can restore these days and your money is more or less covered by value of car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Bloo said: I remember that cartoon, that was all about getting that mouse. 300 miles from Idaho in any direction is a good spot for cars, unless they are parked under pine trees. Walla Walla is not far from me. A person would be wise to buy both cars, if they wanted to restore the convertible. I like Auburnseekers Cord just the way it is, but I understand the logic of the sedan to put it back to original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It would be a big gamble. That engine looks a bit scary to me. Is it seized? Cracked? I know it would need rebuild either way but there is a lot of corrosion on that engine and the way the dash is rusty, that tarp has probably held in more moisture than it kept out. The right car will come along some day, Or I'll trade it for an Auburn as is. Of course I keep buying stuff for it, so the deal gets sweeter or I have a much easier restoration as time goes by. It's in my 50 degree dry shop under a clear cover right now that doesn't go to the floor. That's with the outside Temperature at -10, so it should look the same or the next several years, unlike either of these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I'm pretty sure it's a phaeton as well. That's alot of room between the the top of the rear tub and the door line. I can't imagine a sportsman would be more than 2 feet for the folding tonneau. I wonder if that car is rusty in the lowers. There is alot of surface rust on the cowl and door and those are the places that rust last. That floor pan just loves to collect water. Nothing to say that it was always a western car either. I see alot of missing parts, they hopefully have, in relation to the interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I wouldn't jump to many conclusions about the condition of these Cords. It's almost always worse than what pictures would suggest, and particularly when the vehicles are "barn finds" without the benefit of a barn. Any one seriously interested should carefully inspect the cars on site to best determine their apparent condition, and figure the mechanicals, especially the transmission, will need major tlc and $$$$. Restored closed Cords are considerably under-priced, and in my opinion are a real bargain. On the other hand, for those contemplating restoration, the price of parts, supplies, and labor isn't cheap and won't likely go south. These cars would possibly yield the most if parted out. Cord parts are rarer and expensive when compared to those of various other marques, and put a big dent in wallets. Not to discourage those who consider the fun and challenge of restoring to be what is most important to them, go for it! I'd hate to see these cars not be restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Looking close at the other picture of that phaeton, it looks like it might be a rear wheel conversion, but the tires and wheels on it as well as the stance. It sits High in the rear. Probably the reason he has the sedan was to do a conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 I remember from other posts that some people will not call on a listing with out a stated price, I guess we will never know what the asking price is on the open car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Trim, 25k tires.............. please explain what I am missing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Here are the pictures so 5 years from now we know what we were talking about. I agree with the rear drive conversion theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 "25K tires, small parts, instrument repair.." I think he meant all the small stuff including tires, that will add up to the 25K. Wire harness, new battery, new glass, rubber bits, I'm guessing nothing is really nice and will just need a little cleaning to look new. This car looks like every piece needs heavy rehab. That front fender needs alot of help and that's from what I can see in the photo. I see day light through the firewall. I'll bet there is alot missing from this car. You would be better to buy mine than try to restore this one and restore it instead. I'll take the money and start looking for an Auburn. Besides it's guaranteed that as soon as I sell mine, the value on these will sky rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 If you just went out there and bought it now bad could you get hurt. You wouldn't lose the whole $13,500. And if you ended up working on the car for the next 30 years the entry fee wouldn't matter. Years of good mental health and a fraction of professional fees. Too small a car for my taste, I'd prefer a project Roadmaster. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Thanks for tuning in, when we come back from commercial we will put the finishing touches on our project Cord, with just a little buffing to do we will wrap up this 30 minute episode of what you can do with 200K. Please tune in next week when we show you how to chop tops with just simple tools laying around the garage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, auburnseeker said: Looking close at the other picture of that phaeton, it looks like it might be a rear wheel conversion, but the tires and wheels on it as well as the stance. It sits High in the rear. Probably the reason he has the sedan was to do a conversion. I second (or 3rd?) the motion/notion that it's a rwd conversion. The elimination of the removable transmission cover (between the front fenders) and installation of something that doesn't appear to come off confirms it. No "real" Cord can exist without access there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It actually looks like some sort of frame horn sticking out under the passenger side front fender that's definitely not Cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, auburnseeker said: "25K tires, small parts, instrument repair.." I think he meant all the small stuff including tires, that will add up to the 25K. Wire harness, new battery, new glass, rubber bits, I'm guessing nothing is really nice and will just need a little cleaning to look new. This car looks like every piece needs heavy rehab. That front fender needs alot of help and that's from what I can see in the photo. I see day light through the firewall. I'll bet there is alot missing from this car. You would be better to buy mine than try to restore this one and restore it instead. I'll take the money and start looking for an Auburn. Besides it's guaranteed that as soon as I sell mine, the value on these will sky rocket. Yes, thank you, that's what I meant, the,comma,got,put,in,the wrong place. Tires, instruments, glass, etc.....it all adds up, and you always need a contingency figured in to a restoration. When you get the $600 invoice for fixing two wiper motors, you start to understand! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Blades and arms add another $100. That's $700 just to have the wipers work. On a car like that, you will find alot of those needy parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I just hope it doesn’t get purchased and they drop a crate Chevy engine and. A Turbo 400 in to it. A parts car makes most sense but I don’t own a Cord or have the $$$ or place to restore it. Dave S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 If the open car was purchased by it's self. You would be money ahead to build a custom. A person would need both, to build one. Unless you wanted the sedan. Fun project, hope someone buys both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I meant the sedan would be a shame to make a custom. The open car as you and others have said already looks like it has started down that path. The sedan would be a fun project. Dave S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Interesting read, if they were L29's they would be sold by now, right? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 With the time and $$$ it could look a lot like this. Not sure if is same model or year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 The value on these cars is firmly established. The modified, engine missing, sub frame extended phaeton in Massachusetts (which I personally inspected) has been available for 25k for a long time. It is owned by a very seasoned and smart collector who knows exactly what he is doing. I think that real market on that car to make it actually sell is probably 18-20k. 4 or 5 years ago Peter Kumar bought the complete but needing everything phaeton out of Indy at auction for around 25k. Finally, the car that was subject of this thread below sold for 53k as a incomplete restoration but with all pieces and lots of work done. Plus a nice original interior. I bid on that car up in to the high 40s and I thought it was a really good car. This car is closer to the car in Masschusetts with the extended nose and swapped engine. So, unless it is somehow a cabriolet and we are missing it, the value is 20-25k. As a lot of you guys know, I'm a big cheerleader for the 810/812 Cord. I always wanted an L29 Conv coupe but since my dad was sour on them I didn't get one when the prices were much much more reasonable. It is only in the last 10 years that I figured out the only pre-1936 car he approves of is the Model J so I should have ignored him. I have gotten to drive an 812 about 1/2 a dozen times, including 65mph on an interstate. I really can't say enough good things about them. You MUST sort them, but once that is done they are awesome and tremendously undervalued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 The one George Albright mentioned was a buy in my opinion and as such sold very quickly. I agree with both the other 2 values. Both those cars need a lot to make them correct before you even get to the point of restoring them. A lot of Convertible only parts that are going to be very expensive to acquire. I would have to get atleast 65G for my car to turn it loose and that may or may not include all the extras I have acquired for it. Eventually hopefully it will be the only one left really worth restoring so the market will adjust accordingly. Though the survival rate on these must be over 80%. I figure the only realistic way to an Auburn for me is to find the guy with one that wants a Cord, or someday I'll bit the bullet and buy a donor sedan to make it correct, unless I get bored and just get it going as is. There are a lot of things that need to be improved upon wit hate conversion before I felt comfortable driving it though and realistically that is probably wasted money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 If I did not have my other project cars, I would go and take a look at the cars. I can do all the work myself, just beer in the fridge, a few power tools and a welder. And I would roll something out of the garage???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said: If I did not have my other project cars, I would go and take a look at the cars. I can do all the work myself, just beer in the fridge, a few power tools and a welder. And I would roll something out of the garage???? I’ll buy the beer you buy the car and do the work. We’ll split 50/50. On second thought I may need 60/40 to break even. ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 by Auburnseeker: "I would have to get atleast 65G for my car to turn it loose and that may or may not include all the extras I have acquired for it. Eventually hopefully it will be the only one left really worth restoring so the market will adjust accordingly." Well, in the unrestored category, as long as I'm living and not in a financial crisis, then my '37 phaeton will remain unrestored, so sounds like there'll be two "worth restoring". It's as solid and complete as can be, and runs and drives fine. It's not for sale, but if it were, 65K wouldn't get it. I'm very fortunate to have acquired it in the 1980's, although to get it I gave up a car that I wish I had back! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Luddy Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, trimacar said: by Auburnseeker: "I would have to get atleast 65G for my car to turn it loose and that may or may not include all the extras I have acquired for it. Eventually hopefully it will be the only one left really worth restoring so the market will adjust accordingly." Well, in the unrestored category, as long as I'm living and not in a financial crisis, then my '37 phaeton will remain unrestored, so sounds like there'll be two "worth restoring". It's as solid and complete as can be, and runs and drives fine. It's not for sale, but if it were, 65K wouldn't get it. I'm very fortunate to have acquired it in the 1980's, although to get it I gave up a car that I wish I had back! Wow, that truly is a fabulous looking Cord! It has been over 35 years since I laid eyes on an unrestored one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, SC38DLS said: I just hope it doesn’t get purchased and they drop a crate Chevy engine and. A Turbo 400 in to it. A parts car makes most sense but I don’t own a Cord or have the $$$ or place to restore it. Dave S But, what happens to the parts car when the job is finished? Some guy sneaks it home and drops the crate engine into that? I can see a chain of events heading into infinity. The best thing would be for the current owner to step in and say "I don't want this car modified. I only want to sell it to someone who will preserve the car's originality the way I did." Let that seller stick to his guns. No one messes up a rare car if he sells it. Otherwise he will continue to maintain and restore it as he has since he owned it! You gotta be firm and show some leadership to those hot rodder fellas. The old guy said "I ain't felt the wind in my hair in a summer hide in that Cord with the top down, but I sure like the feel of the wind across my teeth when I give my opinion of what should be done with it." I left the house one day to look at a car a friend of mine had owned a long time and might sell. I told my Wife "I'm going over to see if I can liberate *****'s car." She smiled and said "I know exactly why you used that word." Bernie Edited January 1, 2018 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hope and reality are two different things. If I had the dollars and space my hope could be reality but I don’t. The buyer gets the privilege of doing what ever they want to it. My hope has no control nor does the sellers wishes after the sale is complete. The sedan deserves be saved because of its rarity if nothing else but time will tell. Dave S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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