1965rivgs Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Rivdrivn said: Only 4B and already a vinyl top? I thought they came out later than that. I included a pic of the Fisher Body plate to demonstrate the original exterior/interior color. This is an original Flame Red with black custom interior car, no vinyl top. It doesnt present itself in the pics but the actual material used for the vinyl top is the same material I had on a `69 Lincoln Mark...so I think it is a "Ford" material. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 12 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said: Looks like that vinyl top was added to a car that was born without it. Note the moulding under the back window was retained, but original vinyl top cars didn't have that moulding. Tom - let us know what that Gran Sport sells for, when it goes across the block. Alex, I wont be there when the car crosses the block, I will be at another auction house. The final result will be public record, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 11 hours ago, RivNut said: I've never seen the neg battery cable secured to the valve cover. Something about a 65 that I'm not familiar with? Not correct. The clamp belongs on the pass side valve cover and is for the wiring which ultimately feeds the alternator and cold/hot light switch. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Auction is this afternoon. Looks there is also a white 63 Rivi going across the block in a little while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 This car points out one of the problems with over-restoration: every shortcoming tends to disproportionately detract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 This is a VERY tough crowd... I have a '63 Riv that just came in and there's simply NO WAY I'm going to post it here and let it get picked apart. It's decent, but if that red one doesn't measure up, my car will get absolutely murdered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: This is a VERY tough crowd... I have a '63 Riv that just came in and there's simply NO WAY I'm going to post it here and let it get picked apart. It's decent, but if that red one doesn't measure up, my car will get absolutely murdered. Almost as tough a crowd as the Model T guys on the MTFCA forum! Man, when you ask someone's opinion of your car on that forum, you better be prepared for facts and figures if ANYTHING is wrong, from number of rivets to creases in splash aprons to how many slip slotted slit fitters were used to fit the slits...... C'mon, Matt, put it out there and let the Riviera guys have some fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: This is a VERY tough crowd... I have a '63 Riv that just came in and there's simply NO WAY I'm going to post it here and let it get picked apart. It's decent, but if that red one doesn't measure up, my car will get absolutely murdered. I'll have to take a peek at it on your website once you post it there. I'm just curious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: This is a VERY tough crowd... I have a '63 Riv that just came in and there's simply NO WAY I'm going to post it here and let it get picked apart. It's decent, but if that red one doesn't measure up, my car will get absolutely murdered. There's a difference, though. If you have a car that's represented as "decent" (nice driver, older restoration, etc.), folks are more forgiving of things that aren't quite "right". In a way, they're kind of thinking out loud or making mental notes rather than criticizing. OTOH, if you have a vehicle which is supposed to be an example of the restorer's art, then folks are going to be a little more particular and pointed. You've also got to consider that there are folks who will pick things apart just to show how much they know. Those guys would have a field day with my car. Of course, they would no doubt be happier with themselves than with my response. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bleach said: I'll have to take a peek at it on your website once you post it there. I'm just curious about it. Be sure to post a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 OK, fine. Just go easy, boys. I took it in on trade because the bodywork is super straight and clean, it has working factory A/C, and I really dig the silver interior. Merely driver grade and still needs some TLC (little stuff not working like radio, horn, antenna). We fixed the A/C already. Appears to have a TH400 installed, no Dynaflow. Two floor patches but the rest of the sheetmetal is original; not a rusty car--comes from Tennessee. Drives nice. Not expensive. Have at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: This is a VERY tough crowd... I have a '63 Riv that just came in and there's simply NO WAY I'm going to post it here and let it get picked apart. It's decent, but if that red one doesn't measure up, my car will get absolutely murdered. After buying my 64, I wanted to clean up the engine bay, not restore it. Most of the blue paint on the engine block had peeled off. So I painted what I could reach with high-heat black paint. Kill me for it, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodayguy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The white 63 just sold for $17,500. Not bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 46 minutes ago, bodayguy said: Auction is this afternoon. Looks there is also a white 63 Rivi going across the block in a little while. It just went across, sold for $17,500 ... The '65 GS is 80 lots away, probably a few hours to get to it? Snowed in so kind of watching it online ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, bodayguy said: The white 63 just sold for $17,500. Not bad. Oops, I was posting at almost the same time!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: OK, fine. Just go easy, boys. I took it in on trade because the bodywork is super straight and clean, it has working factory A/C, and I really dig the silver interior. Merely driver grade and still needs some TLC (little stuff not working like radio, horn, antenna). We fixed the A/C already. Appears to have a TH400 installed, no Dynaflow. Two floor patches but the rest of the sheetmetal is original; not a rusty car--comes from Tennessee. Drives nice. Not expensive. Have at it. Does the serial number on the engine match the VIN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: OK, fine. Just go easy, boys. I took it in on trade because the bodywork is super straight and clean, it has working factory A/C, and I really dig the silver interior. Merely driver grade and still needs some TLC (little stuff not working like radio, horn, antenna). We fixed the A/C already. Appears to have a TH400 installed, no Dynaflow. Two floor patches but the rest of the sheetmetal is original; not a rusty car--comes from Tennessee. Drives nice. Not expensive. Have at it. Matt, You state that you think the car has a TH400 in it. Look at the engine code and see if that's not a '64 or '65 engine as well. The '63 engines were painted silver. There are a couiple of things that would be easy to do so there would be no nit picking. Some things are pretty obvious. Not having a Dynaflow is probably a good thing if/when it comes time to service it. Have at it you say: 1) console vinyl missing 2) orientation of the air cleaner and absence of a decal for the air cleaner 3) Why is the steering wheel not color coordinated to the rest of the interior. Otherwise it appears to be a nice late year production car. Ed PS - turn the battery around and get the pos post away from the sheet metal on the bottom of the hood. Ask me about shorting out an entire electrical system because I had the terminals on the wrong sides. Edited January 17, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 The Custom '69 Riviera just sold for $26,000 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) I think the steering wheel is original and used to be silver like the rest of the interior, it's just discolored by time and sun. Unfortunately, the engine number is obscured. I'm not going to pull the valley pan on an inexpensive car just to find out if it's numbers-matching--it doesn't really matter and doesn't appear to be. We spent a pile of money on detailing, A/C, and tires. The next guy can enjoy it while he improves the little stuff that remains. Runs great, no smoke, not a rusty car, nice bodywork, gorgeous interior. Good starter car for someone. That looks like a TH400 pan to me, too: Edited January 17, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) All you're looking for (for this purpose) is a J on the block. You can see enough of the number to verify that, and enough of the entire number for a fairly confident verification against the VIN on the door frame. Edited January 17, 2018 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Matt, before removing the valley cover, look at the other side of the block to see if the engine code is visible. Here's an illustration as to where it's located. You're looking at two letters in the production code. In sequence starting in '63 look for a J, then for '64 look for a K, for '65 an L, and for 66 an M the other letter will be a J, W, or X. J is for a 401, W is for a 425, and X is for a super wildcat dual four block. So most '63's came with a 401, if it's a '63 block, you're looking for a J T, all '64 Rivieras were 425's so that code would be a KW. all years 63 - 66 had 401s and 425s. All nailheads were painted green from the factory except for the '63 Riviera which was painted silver, and the 66 Riviera which was painted red. There are other letters that designate one of the 401s that may have come from the Skylark GS series. The Engine Serial number matches the VIN from the original car The engine in the illustration is a 401 from 1966 - MT. Don't worry about the numbers in the engine code, just the letters . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 That second digit looks like a "J" doesn't it? I'll check on the other side tomorrow and see what else is there. I don't believe this is the original engine, the half-visible numbers don't appear to match the VIN. It looks like 7551 but the VIN isn't anywhere close to that. So non-original engine but maybe still a '63. I'll verify tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, KongaMan said: This car points out one of the problems with over-restoration: every shortcoming tends to disproportionately detract. Car is not over restored, original in many aspects including the interior save for the dash pad and the wood side panels. The items which are not "correct" are a result of poor restoration and/or ignorance Tom Edited January 18, 2018 by 1965rivgs (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: This is a VERY tough crowd... I have a '63 Riv that just came in and there's simply NO WAY I'm going to post it here and let it get picked apart. It's decent, but if that red one doesn't measure up, my car will get absolutely murdered. That`s why I posted pics and limit my comments to questions raised. I know way too much about these cars to accurately represent the average buyer and the last thing I would want is to get involved with someone`s sale or potentially repress anyone`s participation. A few years ago our forum developed the "Riviera Police" and it was overall ugly...not good. Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: That second digit looks like a "J" doesn't it? I'll check on the other side tomorrow and see what else is there. I don't believe this is the original engine, the half-visible numbers don't appear to match the VIN. It looks like 7551 but the VIN isn't anywhere close to that. So non-original engine but maybe still a '63. I'll verify tomorrow. Hi Matt, You might get more exposure by opening another thread with title. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 $107,000 ... Flaws and all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 minute ago, 1965rivgs said: Hi Matt, You might get more exposure by opening another thread with title. Tom I don't care enough to do that. I only posted it because multiple people expressed an interest in seeing it. To me, it's a $15,000 car that needs TLC, but not valuable enough to sweat through the pedigree and worry about perfection. It's a beater that someone can have some fun with. You'd be a fool to buy it and try to make it perfect. PS: The red one just sold for $107,000... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jframe Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 That red GS IS nice, but 107K??? I know the perfect ones have brought this and a little more, but I really think somebody had a few too mant Barrett Jackson cocktails before the bidding began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said: Car is not over restored, original in many aspects including the interior save for the dash pad and the wood side panels. The items which are not "correct" are a result of poor restoration and/or ignorance Tom Over-restoration can be a matter of intent as much as accomplishment. This looked like a car where the rate of fire exceeded his ability to aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 So you're saying stick to three round bursts rather than going fully automatic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Good observation on the "LX" being stamped so close together and then, there's that "9". More and more enticing examples are showing up for sale. Have to keep reminding myself to stick with my project. Matt, your '63 is plenty nice to me. Yes, fun to own and drive. A late '63 or not, odd the interior is closer to a '63 except for a '64 shifter and the exterior being more of a '64 (engine colour and hood ornament). My early '63 has a 120 MPH Electro-cruise Speedo, no ribbed applique on the dashboard and no "Buick" letters on the rear deck lid among other details. Off topic I know, but I'd like to learn what you did to restore your A/C. John B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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