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Antique Boat Thread


alsancle

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We started to pollute the barn thread with the junk we need to put in our garages.  So I thought a thread where we could discuss boats would be interesting.   My dad has a 62 Chris Craft Super Sport 20 footer with a factory 435 Lincoln.   He bought it when it was 1 year old from Billing Marine (which became Billing Classic Cars).   We used it every year for the last 50 up until last year.    Somebody want to buy it?

 

The second boat is mine and was found in a barn in Fitchburg Mass where it has sat since the early 50s.  I was forced to move it this week because the garage was for sale and we had until the 1st to get our stuff out.   It was about 15 degrees, a great day for moving stuff.   It is some sort of pre WWII racing boat.  Good luck identifying it, I've given up.   Somebody wanna buy this too?

 

 

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Out of curiosity does it have a powertrain in it?  

Good thing,  I'm out of money.  I would be just interested enough to get myself in trouble.  Especially with the wife.  

How long is it?  I'm guessing 18 foot?  Looks like they used some very wide planks on those curves.  Someone knew what they were doing when they made it.

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A great debate is how it was originally intended to be powered.  Half the experts have told me it was intended to be a front engined torpedo stern that somebody cut the back off of. The other half say always outboard.

 

I happen to have the largest prewar outboard motor you can find which I bought in a fit of insanity.  It is the only one I have ever seen that I think is big enough to push it.

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I think the biggest vintage outboard (pre WWII)  I have is an 18HP Johnson. 

 

From what I see from here,  that looks like an inboard. 

Is there a prop shaft or strut or spots where one was mounted? 

I have seen several this style and one were outboards. 

My guess is you would need atleast 35 HP just to move it at any speed besides trolling. and more like a minimum of 50 to actually look like a speed boat.

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18 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

I think the biggest vintage outboard (pre WWII)  I have is an 18HP Johnson. 

 

From what I see from here,  that looks like an inboard. 

Is there a prop shaft or strut or spots where one was mounted? 

I have seen several this style and one were outboards. 

My guess is you would need atleast 35 HP just to move it at any speed besides trolling. and more like a minimum of 50 to actually look like a speed boat.

 

There is a hatch in the front deck but no motor mounts.   There is nothing clearly indicating inboard, but the transom work doesn't seem as up to snuff with the rest of the boat.  I think the engine I have will push it. 

 

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I considered (very briefly) buying this boat off my brother-in-law,if for no other reason that it would look cool behind my '72 C20. Just maintaining this picture made much more sense !

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The Mecum auction in Kissimmee has some great antique race boats.  My favourite is this Ventor.

 

https://www.mecum.com/auctions/kissimmee-2018/lots/boats/01/11/

 

Estimate

$75,000 - $125,000
 

Highlights

  • Class E–Gentleman's racer
  • Originally owned and raced by Larry Longnecker of Sioux City, Iowa
  • Previously in the Bill Munro and Ben Lowell collections
  • Comprehensive restoration
  • Former factory supported boat
  • Original 250 CI Lycoming Flathead 6-cylinder marine engine
  • Original engine accessories
  • Aluminum heads
  • Three 2-barrel carburetors
  • First place in class at 2009 Les Cheneaux Antique Wooden Boat show
  • Clear spruce planked with cedar custom woodwork
  • Custom woodwork throughout
  • White exterior with Red seats
  • Custom trailer included

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Maybe I should start pulling my 1979 Ebbtide to cars shows with my '88 Buick Reatta. An unlikely pair but they might stand out in the crowd with one being yellow and the other being bright red. :)  To make this car related I'm going to include a photo of my Reatta too.

 

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It's getting to be the dead of winter and below zero in the Northern part of most of the country with daytime highs struggling to hit the single digits.  

I think this thread is just the right dose of medicine to help ease the blues.  Besides they share a lot with cars especially woodies,  they just don't have wheels.  Just about everything else. 

I would welcome discussions on vintage planes as well to which I know very little.  

If you are a real gear head,  you have oil in your veins.  That same oil that flows through anything that floats flies or drives with the help of internal combustion.

Those of us aforementioned like it all with atleast  a passing interest. 

 

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I wonder if Alsancle's boat started life to be as he mentioned then got sold before it was actually finished and the next buyer turned it into an outboard?  

Does it have 2 substantial stringers that could support an inboard?  They would have been installed as the foundation so even if reworked into an outboard they would still be there. 

Even as an outboard I like it.  

How tender is the bottom? 

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)
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Not a bad idea. If no one wants to read it or post, then they won´t. I remember that wooden raceboat from a few years ago. Old Brad Hunter from PA was interested in it, and started a discussion on WoodyBoater Magazine´s forum. This subject reminds me of that Keels & Wheels event in Texas. Good name for the thread, even.

 

How come you never see a Corvette with a trailer hitch pulling a boat?  I guess most of them have enough torque, but it´s not something you see.

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You are right Jeff!  I think Brad passed away a few years ago?   There were two threads on WoodyBoater.  Here is one:

 

http://www.woodyboater.com/blog/2012/02/25/mystery-boat-part-2-still-searching-for-clues-to-the-mystery/

 

 

1/2 the people think torpedo stern,  1/2 the people think outboard from day 1.  There is zero conclusive evidence pointing to anything.  There is a hatch but no clear mounting points for a front engine.  Bottom has little dry rot,  just outside of left cockpit.  Two reasons for torpedo stern:  1. Boat is heavy for prewar outboard.   2.  Transom work doesn't seem to quality level of rest of boat.

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Funny Jeff, I have seen a few corvettes over the years with trailer hitches.  No one thinks too much of it on a pick up but most folks I know would run rather than walk from a corvette with a trailer hitch.

 

Unrelated but will push the envelope a bit here.  Took these at Greenwich Concours this year.  New, but in the old style and of coursd, wood.  Tried to get alsancle to go in on one but he wasn't having it...

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Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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Up here wood boats seam extremely difficult to sell now Went to an auction about a year ago were they sold an 18 ft. inboard with a new planked mahogany hull and deck. All new chrome with rebuilt motor for $1200. I had a tough time keeping my hands in my pocket. If it had been varnished and interior it would have brought more but very little interest in it.

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It all depends on what make and model boat it is.  A utility is harder to sell than a runabout and a race type boat is like a Corvette.  There are buyers,  but they are getting few and far between and most want repliboats, because like cars,  fewer people know how to keep them running with the original power plants.  They also get used so little that if left in the water,  usually have a dead battery or no fuel because it dried up.  Many are merely beautiful to look at because they were freshly refurbished,  but no one ever touched the engine which is a 70-80 year old flathead that needs atlas a valve job if not a full rebuild and has crappy compression so it won't run with the updraft carburetor because there isn't enough suction to pull the fuel up to the cylinders from the carburetor. 

No different than many of the pretty cars we see,  except they are harder to work on,  because the engine is usually stuffed down in a hole that requires a lot of agility to access. 

Gee you would think I actually worked on one at one time or another. 

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Cars are a bad idea and boats are another degree of difficulty beyond that.  But they are nice to look at.  My little race boat needs somebody with a big barn that can setup a display and just look at it.  Putting it in the water feels like a suicide mission.

 

 

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2 hours ago, jeff_a said:

Not a bad idea. If no one wants to read it or post, then they won´t. I remember that wooden raceboat from a few years ago. Old Brad Hunter from PA was interested in it, and started a discussion on WoodyBoater Magazine´s forum. This subject reminds me of that Keels & Wheels event in Texas. Good name for the thread, even.

 

How come you never see a Corvette with a trailer hitch pulling a boat?  I guess most of them have enough torque, but it´s not something you see.

 

Our Corvette has a trailer hitch.

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3 hours ago, alsancle said:

You are right Jeff!  I think Brad passed away a few years ago?   There were two threads on WoodyBoater.  Here is one:

 

http://www.woodyboater.com/blog/2012/02/25/mystery-boat-part-2-still-searching-for-clues-to-the-mystery/

 

 

1/2 the people think torpedo stern,  1/2 the people think outboard from day 1.  There is zero conclusive evidence pointing to anything.  There is a hatch but no clear mounting points for a front engine.  Bottom has little dry rot,  just outside of left cockpit.  Two reasons for torpedo stern:  1. Boat is heavy for prewar outboard.   2.  Transom work doesn't seem to quality level of rest of boat.

A.J.,

Thanks for putting up that discussion of the mahogany boat. It wood be kind of classy to drive around in a 1937 Packard Station Sedan towing something like that. I like the mystery aspect of the craft, and the nearly lost woodworking skills of the era that produced it. I noticed that in one of the woodyboater comments there is an Evinrude motor like yours on the Canadian ¨Allez IV¨ race boat.

 

Brad died in 2013. I used to talk to him on the phone and he seemed to know a lots about old cars. He was active on the A-C-D and AACA forums. He said that he had a building full of brass and classic cars, the collection put together by his deceased father Art Hunter, but there seems to be no one around who has ever seen them in person. Maybe he was on the level, and the cars exist somewhere, gathering dust. I never met Brad in person. I did go by his house once. A friend and I arranged to meet him in Huntingdon, PA to see a 1914 Peerless engine and his car collection (both also in the Philadelphia area). My friend, Concours d´Elegance-circuit-participant and antique automobile collector David Baird, was interested in the 60-horse T-head engine. Brad stood us up at the time & place we were supposed to meet, we went by his house, and he refused to come to the door. That was kind of a waste of time, since it was Hershey Week, 2013 and we could have been setting up our booth at the Orange Field instead of running around Montgomery County that Tuesday. I guess everyone has a Wild Goose Chase story, though.

 

Steve,

I wonder what the deduction for a trailer hitch is at a National Corvette Restorer´s Society meet?

 

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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  • Well..... Here is The Bonneville. An artist constructed this, from him to Truett Cathey (Chick Fil A) and to me. I dug out the artist and had a great chat with him. It looks like the most damn Jules Verne rocketship/boat.
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  • Anybody know the vintage of the steering wheel? For your enjoyment, curiosity and wild speculation.

The Bonneville

 

 

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Cars are a bad idea and boats are another degree of difficulty beyond that.  But they are nice to look at.  My little race boat needs somebody with a big barn that can setup a display and just look at it.  Putting it in the water feels like a suicide mission.

 

 

Geeze I just built the big barn.  What are the dimensions again?   LOL

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1 hour ago, auburnseeker said:

Geeze I just built the big barn. 

 

Exactly!

 

Jeff,  I  never met Brad in person,  just swapped emails with him.  Could be he was a bit eccentric?

 

Bill,  thanks for posting that.  Very cool in a Buck Rogers sort of way!

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Here is our Chris Craft that has been in the family since it was 1 year old.  Factory 430 Lincoln power which you Chris Craft guys know is rare.  Makes a lot of noise.  Anybody interested I will give you a deal.   Lot of good memories in that boat.  My dad would let me take it out alone (i.e. with my buddies) when I was only 14 which sort of makes me wonder now that I look back.

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Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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I took these pictures at the cobble Beach Concours d'Elegance on the shores of Georgian Bay. The show presents cars boats and bikes from across  North America.

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Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)
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I see some of you like the pictures so here are a few more from the same show. I really like that boat you have and been looking when the wife is not around. I have had flat bottoms, utility's and a/b hydro's in the 60s Is there an asking price for it??? An exhalent vintage race show in Clayton NY every second year that is worth the trip. The first car was display only being a close to original as there are no drawings and only a few pictures. So who can say what is correct or not. They had it roped off so you could not get a good look so I class it as a 20 Footer.

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Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)
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If its cars/boats/planes, I'm In ... !!

 

I have the car (4-4-2), only one car at a time in this household, I'm told ...

 

Boats:  We have a centerpiece, a sweet big block powered runabout I/O surrounded by a JetSki and 2 canoes.

 

Planes:  Love 'em, but my pilots license is good only in the US military.

 

But to keep the topic on track, I did buy this 1927 Johnson at a wood boat & car show this past spring.  2 cylinders - still runs, not restored, with original box, documents and manual.

 

What you see here is a 'TV hole' - a place for a typical large CRT TV above a fireplace - a popular feature in houses built 15 years ago - but what do you do with that 'hole' now that flat screens have  taken over from the venerable CRT (?) 

 

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So HGTV, eat your heart out, us Gear Heads can decorate too ... !!

 

ps.  It helps to have a forgiving wife to allow such things in the house !!

 

pss.  We have one more 'TV hole to deal with, upstairs ... 

 

psss.  Good thread !!

 

 

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CatBird;

 

What exactly is "The Bonneville"?  It looks like it could be the long lost escape capsule from Captain Nemo's "Nautilus" that someone has converted to a parade float (in an attempt to disguise its true lineage).  Is it permanently mounted to its undercarriage, and does it have its own source of motive power?  Whatever it is, it is certainly cool with a Blastolene/Steam Punk look to it.  I like it!

 

Cheers,

Grog

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4 hours ago, capngrog said:

CatBird;

 

What exactly is "The Bonneville"?  It looks like it could be the long lost escape capsule from Captain Nemo's "Nautilus" that someone has converted to a parade float (in an attempt to disguise its true lineage).  Is it permanently mounted to its undercarriage, and does it have its own source of motive power?  Whatever it is, it is certainly cool with a Blastolene/Steam Punk look to it.  I like it!

 

Cheers,

Grog

Nice car but would be nicer without the spot lights and continental back end. I do not see what people see in the rear spare but there is a pile of people out there with bad taste.

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On 12/30/2017 at 3:12 PM, Joe in Canada said:

Nice car but would be nicer without the spot lights and continental back end. I do not see what people see in the rear spare but there is a pile of people out there with bad taste.

 

Oh my goodness, bless your heart! I will have it changed out immediately!! 
 

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20 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

Confusion my mistake !!!! I was talking about the blue Pontiac car unless your boat also has a continental on the back of it like I mentioned.

 

The blue Pontiac is a 1958 Canadian production Parisienne, that collector Steve Plunkett had restored from an abandoned rust bucket. It was sold new at London Motor Products in London,Ontario where I worked for 42 years.The accessories may seem a bit gaudy by today's standards, but are definitely period correct.At least in the 1950's and '60's you had no trouble identifying what kind of car you were looking at !

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