charlie hoffman

1940 show winner collector 4 door packard car for sale

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On 1/8/2018 at 1:34 PM, charlie hoffman said:

At the end of the week an antique car dealer is taking the car into his very large showroom on consignment. 

 

Please have him price it accurately.

 

So many dealers price cars absurdly high--sometimes double 

or more the true value--thinking that someone will come along.

This practice, I feel, does a big disservice to our hobby, because

time after time people looking at the hobby from outside tell me

they had no idea that antique cars were affordable.  How many

more people might take the plunge if they only knew we enjoyed

an affordable family hobby! 

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On 12/26/2017 at 7:40 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Cash is a lot more liquid than a car. In an estate situation, it is nearly ALWAYS better to turn the car into cash, no matter how little, than to leave it to heirs that don't know about it or care about it. Saying, "Screw it, if I don't get what I want, I won't sell it and it can just sit in the garage," is leaving his loved ones with a very big headache. I deal with a lot of widows and children of collectors who are trying to get rid of dear old dad's cars, and without exception, they are having an awful time of it and are just miserable about the entire process. Not only do they feel overwhelmed by the whole estate situation, but they're now tasked with not only figuring out what the car is worth for the purposes of settling the estate, but they have to maintain it properly. And that's totally ignoring the emotional content that an old car carries. They feel like they're betraying their father/husband but they don't know what else to do. It's heartbreaking.

 

In many cases, they will have a bunch of buzzards flying around saying, "Well, you know your dad really wanted me to have this car when he passed, he knew how much I loved it. He once said I could buy it for $1500." There will always be two or three such guys following the death of most collectors with cars in their garage. If the heirs have no interest in driving and enjoying the car, what will happen is that they will either fire sale it just to have it gone, or they will hang on to it because of dad's memory, or because dad said it was worth $XX,XXX they will be terrified of getting ripped off and will refuse to sell it for less. So it sits and rots. Kids inevitably move away or grow to have other interests, including children of their own, and the widow eventually has to deal with a non-running, deteriorated old car when she sells the house. The car, of course, is now far less valuable than it was when he was alive.

An old car, regardless of value, will weigh very heavily on them. Cash will not.

 

Matt is correct. I am living this right now. My father had a dozen old cars and it is not only emotionally draining, but also overwhelming due to lack of knowledge, to liquidate them. Every point he made is something I am going through. Every One!

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:26 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Please have him price it accurately.

 

So many dealers price cars absurdly high--sometimes double 

or more the true value--thinking that someone will come along.

This practice, I feel, does a big disservice to our hobby, because

time after time people looking at the hobby from outside tell me

they had no idea that antique cars were affordable.

Amen and Amen!

 

 I have been saying this for almost as long as I’ve been in the hobby. It is such a shame that dealers list cars and try to sell them for absolutely absurd prices and they just languish for sale for months and months if not years and years. Everyone can probably think of cars right now for sale at absurdly expensive prices yet the dealers will not budge on the price. It is a terrifically great disservice to the hobby and will hurt everyone in the end. 

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8 hours ago, scott12180 said:

Amen and Amen!

 

 I have been saying this for almost as long as I’ve been in the hobby. It is such a shame that dealers list cars and try to sell them for absolutely absurd prices and they just languish for sale for months and months if not years and years. Everyone can probably think of cars right now for sale at absurdly expensive prices yet the dealers will not budge on the price. It is a terrifically great disservice to the hobby and will hurt everyone in the end. 

 

Enough dealers do this that I assume it works for them,  at least, right?  If their storage costs are low, they may able to afford to keep cars sitting around just in case someone comes along and doesn't know better than to overpay.   I agree it harms the hobby, though, and it's no way to develop a loyal customer base.  

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)

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Absurd prices ?Not one dealer can have a showroom full of cars that are priced to high  .They will go broke in the end and this will happen one of these years when the prices will get in a downfall .I always  say its the buyer who sets the price and when no buyers show up for a to high priced car they will have to come down in the end .I cannot understand how certain dealers get their cars sold like a certain yman who's cars are always double priced .Those are also the dealers who will go to the auctions and will bid up cars till they see that they cannot make a profit anymore and then they let it go to the person  who would buy it for himself .But we are all in a certain way dealers and almost everybody will buy a car from for instance a person who has to sell it today for any price knowing that they can make a profit tomorrow .

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 12:47 PM, Imperial62 said:

re - passing it onto heirs.  How would that car be valued for taxes?  Both of my parents are still alive and I dread the day of passing and estate clean up.  Not only for the sentimental and loss factors but the distribution of assets and the government getting their share.

 

A good friend passed a while back and in his barn is an unrestored 1908 Ford S which he was trying to sell for an optimistic 40k before he passed. Flash forward - it was "valued" at 65k for the estate tax purposes and the executor is having fits since it would not sell anywhere near that money. I hate to admit it, but our hobby is over-pricing itself while values are on the decline. If you doubt this, look at auction results on e-bay for anything prior to 1930 (that isn't chopped) and any sedan made prior to WW2.

Edited by TheMoneyPit
fat fingers (see edit history)

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Jake the market is already doing what you suggest in post #36.  And that is a good thing I think.

 

That said we tend to forget every car is individual.  We may have valid arguments as to why A car sold for x and it should have been y, but if x was the number between those doing the transaction that seems to be the value, for that moment at least.  It gets redefined at the next point of sale.

 

Having had a 120 in very similar shape I know what this one would be worth to me, but next guy might be the one who just has to have this model, unrestored, etc.  Buyer is responsible, I think to determine if they get a fair deal at the e nd of the day.

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Imperial62 said:

1908 Ford model S as you know have a dwindling and specific fan base. 

 

Hard for me to believe that this is influencing prices at this point, early brass cars are expensive as they've ever been.  If brass cars (or the Model S specifically) has a "dwindling and specific fan base", then that fan base must be more affluent, because prices are solid.

 

I see two things happening.

 

One, someone who has no interest in early cars transfers their thought to ALL collectors, in other words, I don't like broccoli, so NO ONE likes broccoli.

 

Second, there's a brass car that has a known market value of $40K, and owner is asking $60K.  After it doesn't sell for a year, both owner and some observers say "See, told you there was no market for these cars".....

 

Yes, there are numerous brass cars on the market now, just as there are a lot of ALL collector cars on the market.  Good cars, fairly priced, sell easily.  Overpriced or project cars linger for a long time in the market. 

 

I know of one highly desirable car for sale now, at what appears to be a fair price, but owner won't start it nor let anyone drive it.  With those conditions of sale, the car is now a "project car", since the prospective buyer doesn't know what he's getting.

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54 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Just counterpoint Jake.  Makes for interesting car talk.  But David Coco speaks, well, I tend to listen to the master...  ?

Oh my....glad there was a smiley face!  Yes, it's all interesting conjecture.

 

This Packard is a very nice car, but as has been mentioned, it's all too easy to set a price based on market for these cars.  At one time, Junior Series Packards brought very little money.  Now, they bring good money, particularly convertibles.

 

I hope this car finds a good home, but I also think the market is less for this particular car than the current asking price.  It's a shame that the family will lose money, but there are never guarantees that an old car will be worth what one has invested in it.

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Dave I am glad it's a little more than I might value it at.  No need to overyjink then, how to make another one work...    I really like the 40s, but if we get another jr. I actually like the 115 club sedan or convert models a lot.  Seems like a cool little Packard and I have heard from more than one sr. Owner that the 6 is an outstanding engine.

 

And yes I do pay very close attention to your comments, always learn something!!

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Well, according to certain people in my family, one thing they seem to agree that they learn from me is how often I can be wrong, at least from their viewpoint!

 

I've driven a beautifully restored '37 120 convertible coupe, and I have my '38 Senior 1604 convertible coupe to compare it to.  The 120 is much lighter and more nimble, and is a pleasure to drive.  Plenty of power in a smaller car.  The 1604 is also a pleasure to drive, it's just, and I'm searching for the word, ponderous?  You know you have a lot of weight to deal with, and while the car handles it very nicely (center point steering and all that), it's an altogether different feeling.

 

It used to be that Senior cars brought 4 or 5 times what Junior cars did in the marketplace.  I'd say that's more down to 2 times now, and some very nice Junior convertibles are probably bringing over half as much as a Senior (so down to 1.5 times, if that makes sense)...

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