Sactownog

1933 Dodge BARN FIND - HARLEAN'S COMEBACK

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I found a 1933 Dodge DP six in a barn in Lincoln, CA. it is perfect, motor runs great but will not run with out spraying engine start down the carb. I think the fuel pump is bad or the fuel pressure regulator is bad. IDK. 

 

also, when I took off the air filter, it had oil in the middle of it, why is this and is it supposed to be there? 

 

please help with any info you have. 

 

I need all the help I can get, the vehicle body is perfect, the interior is amazing. motor is what I need to get running. I will be re-doing the brake system and need to get running on its own. 

 

I find fuel pumps but they tend to have only fuel pump and filter, but the original way the motor is set up, they are separate with I believe fuel pump on lower passenger side of block and the filter on the top connected to the carburetor. 

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Edited by Sactownog (see edit history)
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Sounds like a good car.

We like photos :)

These are a well engineered car.

 

The fuel filter is probably a later add on.

 

Oil bath air cleaners were the norm in 1933 and for several decades later

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=oil+bath+air+cleaner&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHnKHJyqTYAhWCErwKHWzyDpgQsAQIJg&biw=1366&bih=615

 

Go down the page. A Dodge sub forum. with some knowledge guys

http://forums.aaca.org/forum/38-dodge-dodge-brothers/

Edited by 1939_Buick (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

Sounds like a good car.

We like photos :)

These are a well engineered car.

 

The fuel filter is probably a later add on.

 

Oil bath air cleaners were the norm in 1933 and for several decades later

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=oil+bath+air+cleaner&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHnKHJyqTYAhWCErwKHWzyDpgQsAQIJg&biw=1366&bih=615

 

Go down the page. A Dodge sub forum. with some knowledge guys

http://forums.aaca.org/forum/38-dodge-dodge-brothers/

Please explain the Oil Bath Air Cleaner? it is for sure new to me. I took all the oil out, however I saved it just in case. so I can put it back in and it will be good. 

 

as for the fuel filter. here is a picture of my fuel setup, I believe the top part connected to the carb is the fuel filter and the part on the lower part of the block is the fuel pump. but when I find a replacement they seem to have them connected and am not sure if that is the correct fuel pump I need. 

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With an in-line filter somewhere before the fuel pump you could omit the filter at the carb, never saw this kind of set up before, maybe you just need to drop the tank give it a good clean out , and add the inline filter, then use the original pump after that is cleaned up, just a thought”””

 

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There are both oil bath filters and oil dip filters. With the oil bath, the top is removed and the inner trough is filled with oil to catch the dirt before it enters the carb. The dip type are usually a sealed unit that cannot be opened, they are merely dipped in oil past the filter element, allowed to drip empty and the reinstalled on the car. To clean them, you have to wash the whole filter in solvent and then let dry before reoiling. Usually you will find the sediment bowl type filter mounted right to the fuel pump. Watch if you use a modern inline filter as most are made for modern pump s which produce more pressure than the original. The newer filters may restrict the fuel flow to the carb and make the pump work harder.

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Welcome these are reliable , well built vehicles , have enjoyed them for almost 

50 years , 

No fuel pressure regulator on this vintage vehicle .

Oil bath air filter is adequately addressed in # 5  text above .

Appears due to age / possibly bad fuel , the diaphragm appears to have failed .

One may google " 1933 Dodge Brothers fuel pump " , multiple source vendor 

are listed here for : pump rebuild kit , also examples of the original type 

of pump / fuel bowl & filter assy . 

Local NAPA  may also be a parts source 

Suggest you also may want to consider a heat shield , between top of pump and 

lower edge of exhaust manifold ( in warm weather , with today's fuel , vapor lock 

is a distinct possibility ) 

Appears the pump rebuild / new pump will get you operational .

 

Additionally :  check distributor cap , rotor button , plug wires , plugs , points , 

                          Set the timing

                          , possibly rebuild the carburetor..., clean fuel tank @ 

                            some future date ..

 

Enjoy the process , sense of accomplishment ...

Feel free to contact me via pm ....

BTW : additional photos are always an appreciated plus ....

 

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That is possibly a series AH fuel pump, which is much later. The original for 1933 DP is a series B pump, #1521211 type 411. They appear on eBay from time to time. That is, the fuel pump has been replaced. The original had a glass sediment bowl on the pump inlet. That one doesn't so there is a sediment bowl, possibly a filter, at the carburetor.

 

Here is an original:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-1934-Dodge-plymouth-fuel-pump/263383323739?hash=item3d52de945b:g:oCwAAOSwOgdYtdPw&vxp=mtr

 

At the moment there is another purporting to be this number. It would work well but the top is a universal fitting. It says it is NOS although you would probably need a new diaphragm to cope with fuel containing ethanol. This pump was probably made some years after WWII, probably well into the '50s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-fuel-Pump-GI-6-Dodge-1521211-Dodge-TR-1521789-Plymouth-1521388/132413122671?hash=item1ed46fe86f:g:R5AAAOSwj85YOiOp&vxp=mtr

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Here is the write up from the old owner. Gas tank was flushed, points adjusted. It fired up. I think it needs the fuel pump rebuilt and it should start. I believe I should rebuild the fuel pump as a start. 

Also, I will put the oil back into the filter galley and let that go. Are all the old fuel pump rebuild kits the same for 33? 

Screenshot_20171213-185059 (1).png

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The original fuel pump had parts that were fairly standard for a number of years and across a number of makes/models. I concur with earlier posts that the original pump had a glass sediment bowl type filter on the pump itself. Check with Antique Auto Parts Cellar (a.k.a. Then and Now Automotive) for a modern fuel compatible rebuild kit, but make sure you give them the numbers, etc. off your pump and the pump may not be original to the car and specifying the car could get you the wrong kit.

 

You may also want to check the compression in the engine. . . Sitting for a while the rings may have frozen and/or it may have some burned valves, etc. Double check that the spark is hot, not an anemic yellow color. An engine with low compression or weak ignition will be hard to start and may need to spray starting fluid down the carb regardless of the condition of the fuel pump. 

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That is how the Mechanic originally started the car, by spraying starter fluid down the carb. It ran but would not stay running. That is what leads me to the Fuel Pump. 

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Take the fuel line off the bowl at the carb and turn the engine over. If fuel comes out of the fuel line as it should, forget the pump for the moment. The old saying is that 90% of fuel problems are electrical.

 

Another thing is to look inside the carb.. Has old fuel formed a gum inside? Or was there ethanol in it, leading to moisture in the carb and corrosion?

 

Save your money for the moment and check things out. Throwing money at it won't necessarily solve the problem(s). Do some proper diagnosis first.

 

The PO says the fuel tank was flushed. What does that mean? Properly or half-heartedly? They wanted to sell it, remember.

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2 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Take the fuel line off the bowl at the carb and turn the engine over. If fuel comes out of the fuel line as it should, forget the pump for the moment. The old saying is that 90% of fuel problems are electrical.

 

Another thing is to look inside the carb.. Has old fuel formed a gum inside? Or was there ethanol in it, leading to moisture in the carb and corrosion?

 

Save your money for the moment and check things out. Throwing money at it won't necessarily solve the problem(s). Do some proper diagnosis first.

 

The PO says the fuel tank was flushed. What does that mean? Properly or half-heartedly? They wanted to sell it, remember.

That is a great idea. Ill try that tonight and update. 

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1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

Take the fuel line off the bowl at the carb and turn the engine over. If fuel comes out of the fuel line as it should, forget the pump for the moment. The old saying is that 90% of fuel problems are electrical.

 

Another thing is to look inside the carb.. Has old fuel formed a gum inside? Or was there ethanol in it, leading to moisture in the carb and corrosion?

 

Save your money for the moment and check things out. Throwing money at it won't necessarily solve the problem(s). Do some proper diagnosis first.

 

The PO says the fuel tank was flushed. What does that mean? Properly or half-heartedly? They wanted to sell it, remember.

Just took the line off the pump to the fuel filter, turned the car over a few times and it is pumping gas. See picture. That is the 2-3 turns of gas that came out. My next guess is to take apart the carb and clean it or rebuild it?????

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Are the plugs wet after turning it over for a bit? If so, it is getting fuel so look at electrical? And clean and gap the plugs while you are there.

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19 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Are the plugs wet after turning it over for a bit? If so, it is getting fuel so look at electrical? And clean and gap the plugs while you are there.

When I bought the car the guy started it using a fuel in the carb and it would run as long as he sprayed fuel in the carb when I look at the top of the spark plugs around them on top of the head yes they do have fluid around them I'm not sure if that is gas or if that something that was there before but I am cleaning the fuel filter at the moment and it did have a little gunk inside of it on the outlet side where the small hole is to let the fuel into the carb

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I'm thinking if there's Gunk inside of the fuel pressure regulator that there should be Gunk inside of the card as well and that's what's not allowing it to run with the fuel lines

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That is the float "needle valve". It is basically a tap. When the engine uses fuel, the float drops and allows that valve to open. When the engine fuel usage slows, the float rises and the valve is shut or the opening is reduced and fuel flow reduces or stops. The float height has a specified setting for that carb. and engine. There should be no fuel pressure regulator if the pump is the right one or operates at the right pressure, although I suppose you could call that a pressure regulator as it enlarges and reduces the size of the orifice it works in (which is known as the seat).

 

OK, top off the carb. Make sure your screw driver is a screw driver and not a lever or scraper or punch or chisel, i.e. it fits the screws, or you will damage them.

 

A dumb question. When did the vendor clean out the tank and fuel lines?

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Out of curiosity, what is the engine number? It will be located on a boss on the block above the generator. Reason I ask is the oil pump cover, fuel pump and carburetor all look newer than early 1930s to me. Now all of those are bolt for bolt compatible with at least some newer engines, but I wonder if the engine itself has been swapped out at some point.

 

At least on 1933 and 1934 Plymouths, the block is visibly different on the other side of the block (no full length water jacket so you can see the outline of the cylinder bores). There was a change to a slightly wider block with a full length water jacket and water distribution tube in 1935. I think Dodge shared the same block casting with Plymouth so I would expect the same for it.

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11 hours ago, rageracing said:

I agree with ply33.  Looks to be a newer motor then 33 and 34.

 

By PM with OP, it seems the engine number is for a 53 Dodge. I am curious on how the starter motor was fitted (if they kept the original bell housing).

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15 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

By PM with OP, it seems the engine number is for a 53 Dodge. I am curious on how the starter motor was fitted (if they kept the original bell housing).

How did you find this out? 

I am trying to also figure out what Carb rebuild kit to buy. 

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I see that you're also missing the manifold heat riser spring and counterweight. It the riser is stuck shut, it will restrict exhaust flow and performance.

 

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