1933 Dodge BARN FIND - HARLEAN'S COMEBACK

[Sactownog]

I found a 1933 Dodge DP six in a barn in Lincoln, CA. it is perfect, motor runs great but will not run with out spraying engine start down the carb. I think the fuel pump is bad or the fuel pressure regulator is bad. IDK. 

 

also, when I took off the air filter, it had oil in the middle of it, why is this and is it supposed to be there? 

 

please help with any info you have. 

 

I need all the help I can get, the vehicle body is perfect, the interior is amazing. motor is what I need to get running. I will be re-doing the brake system and need to get running on its own. 

 

I find fuel pumps but they tend to have only fuel pump and filter, but the original way the motor is set up, they are separate with I believe fuel pump on lower passenger side of block and the filter on the top connected to the carburetor. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Sactownog (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

Sounds like a good car.

We like photos

These are a well engineered car.

 

The fuel filter is probably a later add on.

 

Oil bath air cleaners were the norm in 1933 and for several decades later

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=oil+bath+air+cleaner&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHnKHJyqTYAhWCErwKHWzyDpgQsAQIJg&biw=1366&bih=615

 

Go down the page. A Dodge sub forum. with some knowledge guys

http://forums.aaca.org/forum/38-dodge-dodge-brothers/

Edited December 25, 2017 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Sactownog]

6 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

Sounds like a good car.

We like photos

These are a well engineered car.

 

The fuel filter is probably a later add on.

 

Oil bath air cleaners were the norm in 1933 and for several decades later

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=oil+bath+air+cleaner&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjHnKHJyqTYAhWCErwKHWzyDpgQsAQIJg&biw=1366&bih=615

 

Go down the page. A Dodge sub forum. with some knowledge guys

http://forums.aaca.org/forum/38-dodge-dodge-brothers/

Please explain the Oil Bath Air Cleaner? it is for sure new to me. I took all the oil out, however I saved it just in case. so I can put it back in and it will be good. 

 

as for the fuel filter. here is a picture of my fuel setup, I believe the top part connected to the carb is the fuel filter and the part on the lower part of the block is the fuel pump. but when I find a replacement they seem to have them connected and am not sure if that is the correct fuel pump I need. 

[knobless]

With an in-line filter somewhere before the fuel pump you could omit the filter at the carb, never saw this kind of set up before, maybe you just need to drop the tank give it a good clean out , and add the inline filter, then use the original pump after that is cleaned up, just a thought”””

 

[jpage]

There are both oil bath filters and oil dip filters. With the oil bath, the top is removed and the inner trough is filled with oil to catch the dirt before it enters the carb. The dip type are usually a sealed unit that cannot be opened, they are merely dipped in oil past the filter element, allowed to drip empty and the reinstalled on the car. To clean them, you have to wash the whole filter in solvent and then let dry before reoiling. Usually you will find the sediment bowl type filter mounted right to the fuel pump. Watch if you use a modern inline filter as most are made for modern pump s which produce more pressure than the original. The newer filters may restrict the fuel flow to the carb and make the pump work harder.

[42319DB34]

Welcome these are reliable , well built vehicles , have enjoyed them for almost 

50 years , 

No fuel pressure regulator on this vintage vehicle .

Oil bath air filter is adequately addressed in # 5  text above .

Appears due to age / possibly bad fuel , the diaphragm appears to have failed .

One may google " 1933 Dodge Brothers fuel pump " , multiple source vendor 

are listed here for : pump rebuild kit , also examples of the original type 

of pump / fuel bowl & filter assy . 

Local NAPA  may also be a parts source 

Suggest you also may want to consider a heat shield , between top of pump and 

lower edge of exhaust manifold ( in warm weather , with today's fuel , vapor lock 

is a distinct possibility ) 

Appears the pump rebuild / new pump will get you operational .

 

Additionally :  check distributor cap , rotor button , plug wires , plugs , points , 

                          Set the timing

                          , possibly rebuild the carburetor..., clean fuel tank @ 

                            some future date ..

 

Enjoy the process , sense of accomplishment ...

Feel free to contact me via pm ....

BTW : additional photos are always an appreciated plus ....

 

[Spinneyhill]

That is possibly a series AH fuel pump, which is much later. The original for 1933 DP is a series B pump, #1521211 type 411. They appear on eBay from time to time. That is, the fuel pump has been replaced. The original had a glass sediment bowl on the pump inlet. That one doesn't so there is a sediment bowl, possibly a filter, at the carburetor.

 

Here is an original:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-1934-Dodge-plymouth-fuel-pump/263383323739?hash=item3d52de945b:g:oCwAAOSwOgdYtdPw&vxp=mtr

 

At the moment there is another purporting to be this number. It would work well but the top is a universal fitting. It says it is NOS although you would probably need a new diaphragm to cope with fuel containing ethanol. This pump was probably made some years after WWII, probably well into the '50s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-fuel-Pump-GI-6-Dodge-1521211-Dodge-TR-1521789-Plymouth-1521388/132413122671?hash=item1ed46fe86f:g:R5AAAOSwj85YOiOp&vxp=mtr

[Sactownog]

Here is the write up from the old owner. Gas tank was flushed, points adjusted. It fired up. I think it needs the fuel pump rebuilt and it should start. I believe I should rebuild the fuel pump as a start. 

Also, I will put the oil back into the filter galley and let that go. Are all the old fuel pump rebuild kits the same for 33? 

[ply33]

The original fuel pump had parts that were fairly standard for a number of years and across a number of makes/models. I concur with earlier posts that the original pump had a glass sediment bowl type filter on the pump itself. Check with Antique Auto Parts Cellar (a.k.a. Then and Now Automotive) for a modern fuel compatible rebuild kit, but make sure you give them the numbers, etc. off your pump and the pump may not be original to the car and specifying the car could get you the wrong kit.

 

You may also want to check the compression in the engine. . . Sitting for a while the rings may have frozen and/or it may have some burned valves, etc. Double check that the spark is hot, not an anemic yellow color. An engine with low compression or weak ignition will be hard to start and may need to spray starting fluid down the carb regardless of the condition of the fuel pump. 

[Sactownog]

That is how the Mechanic originally started the car, by spraying starter fluid down the carb. It ran but would not stay running. That is what leads me to the Fuel Pump. 

[Sactownog]

Pics for fun

[Sactownog]

[Spinneyhill]

Take the fuel line off the bowl at the carb and turn the engine over. If fuel comes out of the fuel line as it should, forget the pump for the moment. The old saying is that 90% of fuel problems are electrical.

 

Another thing is to look inside the carb.. Has old fuel formed a gum inside? Or was there ethanol in it, leading to moisture in the carb and corrosion?

 

Save your money for the moment and check things out. Throwing money at it won't necessarily solve the problem(s). Do some proper diagnosis first.

 

The PO says the fuel tank was flushed. What does that mean? Properly or half-heartedly? They wanted to sell it, remember.

[Sactownog]

2 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Take the fuel line off the bowl at the carb and turn the engine over. If fuel comes out of the fuel line as it should, forget the pump for the moment. The old saying is that 90% of fuel problems are electrical.

 

Another thing is to look inside the carb.. Has old fuel formed a gum inside? Or was there ethanol in it, leading to moisture in the carb and corrosion?

 

Save your money for the moment and check things out. Throwing money at it won't necessarily solve the problem(s). Do some proper diagnosis first.

 

The PO says the fuel tank was flushed. What does that mean? Properly or half-heartedly? They wanted to sell it, remember.

That is a great idea. Ill try that tonight and update. 

[Sactownog]

1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

Take the fuel line off the bowl at the carb and turn the engine over. If fuel comes out of the fuel line as it should, forget the pump for the moment. The old saying is that 90% of fuel problems are electrical.

 

Another thing is to look inside the carb.. Has old fuel formed a gum inside? Or was there ethanol in it, leading to moisture in the carb and corrosion?

 

Save your money for the moment and check things out. Throwing money at it won't necessarily solve the problem(s). Do some proper diagnosis first.

 

The PO says the fuel tank was flushed. What does that mean? Properly or half-heartedly? They wanted to sell it, remember.

Just took the line off the pump to the fuel filter, turned the car over a few times and it is pumping gas. See picture. That is the 2-3 turns of gas that came out. My next guess is to take apart the carb and clean it or rebuild it?????

[Spinneyhill]

Are the plugs wet after turning it over for a bit? If so, it is getting fuel so look at electrical? And clean and gap the plugs while you are there.

[Sactownog]

19 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Are the plugs wet after turning it over for a bit? If so, it is getting fuel so look at electrical? And clean and gap the plugs while you are there.

When I bought the car the guy started it using a fuel in the carb and it would run as long as he sprayed fuel in the carb when I look at the top of the spark plugs around them on top of the head yes they do have fluid around them I'm not sure if that is gas or if that something that was there before but I am cleaning the fuel filter at the moment and it did have a little gunk inside of it on the outlet side where the small hole is to let the fuel into the carb

[Sactownog]

I'm thinking if there's Gunk inside of the fuel pressure regulator that there should be Gunk inside of the card as well and that's what's not allowing it to run with the fuel lines

[Spinneyhill]

That is the float "needle valve". It is basically a tap. When the engine uses fuel, the float drops and allows that valve to open. When the engine fuel usage slows, the float rises and the valve is shut or the opening is reduced and fuel flow reduces or stops. The float height has a specified setting for that carb. and engine. There should be no fuel pressure regulator if the pump is the right one or operates at the right pressure, although I suppose you could call that a pressure regulator as it enlarges and reduces the size of the orifice it works in (which is known as the seat).

 

OK, top off the carb. Make sure your screw driver is a screw driver and not a lever or scraper or punch or chisel, i.e. it fits the screws, or you will damage them.

 

A dumb question. When did the vendor clean out the tank and fuel lines?

[ply33]

Out of curiosity, what is the engine number? It will be located on a boss on the block above the generator. Reason I ask is the oil pump cover, fuel pump and carburetor all look newer than early 1930s to me. Now all of those are bolt for bolt compatible with at least some newer engines, but I wonder if the engine itself has been swapped out at some point.

 

At least on 1933 and 1934 Plymouths, the block is visibly different on the other side of the block (no full length water jacket so you can see the outline of the cylinder bores). There was a change to a slightly wider block with a full length water jacket and water distribution tube in 1935. I think Dodge shared the same block casting with Plymouth so I would expect the same for it.

[rageracing]

I agree with ply33.  Looks to be a newer motor then 33 and 34.

[ply33]

11 hours ago, rageracing said:

I agree with ply33.  Looks to be a newer motor then 33 and 34.

 

By PM with OP, it seems the engine number is for a 53 Dodge. I am curious on how the starter motor was fitted (if they kept the original bell housing).

[Sactownog]

15 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

By PM with OP, it seems the engine number is for a 53 Dodge. I am curious on how the starter motor was fitted (if they kept the original bell housing).

How did you find this out? 

I am trying to also figure out what Carb rebuild kit to buy. 

[Spinneyhill]

OK, forget my fuel pump post. It is probably the right one for the engine.

 

Engine number decoding:

http://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/dengines.html

Edited December 26, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[jpage]

I see that you're also missing the manifold heat riser spring and counterweight. It the riser is stuck shut, it will restrict exhaust flow and performance.

 

[carbking]

The fuel filter is a Carter which could have been original equipment in the early 1950's.

 

Picture of Stromberg carb is too close to determine which style. Should be letters and numbers roughly 1/2 inch tall in the throttle body, example BXUV-3; but PROBABLY, the numbers you need will be stamped (recessed numbers, not raised numbers) on the flat surface of the top casting. Maybe a 3-??? example 3-111. This is what you will need to get a carb rebuilding kit.

 

Jon.

 

 

[Sactownog]

Harlean is alive. Got her running today. Sounds amazing, revs nice. Still plan on rebuilding the carb and fuel pump. But getting her going and running on her own power after 26 years in a barn is awesome. 

#DaloianDesigns

#Harlean

@Sactownog

VID_70561113_090812_981.mp4

[jpage]

I'm always surprised to see that even in the midst of the depression, how many cars had options like dual sidemounts  on them, unless it was added much later. This car appears to me that it might have been refinished at some point because of the white wheels.

[Sactownog]

5 hours ago, jpage said:

I'm always surprised to see that even in the midst of the depression, how many cars had options like dual sidemounts  on them, unless it was added much later. This car appears to me that it might have been refinished at some point because of the white wheels.

This car came with Dual Side mounts. Was restored back in early 90s I believe, however all arts on the car are original from what we can tell other then the motor. 

[Steve9]

In regards to the oil bath air cleaner, if the oil is dirty replace with 50wt. That’s a real fine car you have there. A previous owner of my 36 had the same idea and dropped a 56 flathead into it. Everything from 36 was fitted to that block except the distributor, bolts right up to the original tranny. By the 50’s they were building a better engine, I’ve kept mine the same. Other than the casting numbers the only visible difference is head bolts instead of studs and nuts. Enjoy that sweet ride!

[hchris]

Not wanting to rain on your parade, but I noticed the mention of a honeycomb radiator.

 

If its original, you may experience overheating next summer as they are almost impossible to clean out, perhaps now that its running you may want to get the engine up to temp and see if it remains cool.

 

Better to check it out now than be stuck somewhere in the heat of summer.

 

Lovely find by the way, envy overload 

Edited December 28, 2017 by hchris
add credit (see edit history)

[Sactownog]

Well, after getting the car started yesterday, I now have replaced the leaky radiator hoses with new ones, got the car on jack stands and have all 4 tires off ready to do brake inspection.

Need to rebuild master cylinder, probably new rubber break lines, and wheel bearings I believe. 

I welcome all tips and tricks as well as opinions on things to do to advance this project. 

 

See attached pics. 

[hchris]

Yes, please don`t second guess the brakes, do the lot.

 

You will need a special hub puller to get the rear brake drums off, search this forum for further info if you`re not familiar with them, there are plenty of posts on this topic.

[Sactownog]

Just yanked off the Master cylinder, its a "Wagner FE543 Lockheed" I have found some remanufactured online. However that's the easy part. Car is now on jacks with tires/wheels off. Now I need to get the drums off.

Anyone have a recommendation where to get the correct Brake Drum puller for rear drums? 

 

Also, has anyone swapped to steel braided lines with the factory drums? Will it give me slightly better breakimg power? 

[jpage]

The FE543 is the casting number, the part number is F544 which still might be available new from NAPA. It will have to be crossed over to their brand. It might still be available from Wagner if you can find a dealer. If you can give me measurements on the brake hoses, I might be able to give you part numbers that should work. I need to know length and thread sizes.

Edited December 28, 2017 by jpage (see edit history)

[ply33]

Near as I can tell, 1933 is the first year where Chrysler's "badge engineering" really took hold with Dodge and that many of the mechanical parts on the Dodge are the same as for Plymouth. If you have a Dodge parts book to get the original Chrysler part numbers you can verify, but I suspect that the numbers I have for brake hoses, master cylinder, etc for Plymouth will be the same as you need for your Dodge. See http://www.ply33.com/Parts/numeric and more specifically http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group5#608678 and http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group5#5-R

[Steve9]

After hearing stories of Chinese replacement brake parts, I sent wheel cylinders and master cylinder to Hagens Auto Parts in Puyallup, Wa for rebuilds. The best part of this method is you’re getting back your original pieces, no b.s. no disappointments.

[Sactownog]

4 hours ago, jpage said:

The FE543 is the casting number, the part number is F544 which still might be available new from NAPA. It will have to be crossed over to their brand. It might still be available from Wagner if you can find a dealer. If you can give me measurements on the brake hoses, I might be able to give you part numbers that should work. I need to know length and thread sizes.

From what I have found the master cylinder that is on my car now is an Fe 543 I am finding that there is another master cylinder that will work which is an m544 I don't know about the Chinese rumors of having issues but I don't see that it would affect the vehicle that much considering a brand new master cylinder part number m544 cost $100 is vs sending my old master cylinder to get refurbished for $140 for getting a brand new Wagner master cylinder part number Fe 543 which would cost me $275

[Sactownog]

I have decided to spend the $310 on an American Made Master cylinder replacement. if anyone has a reason why I should not go that rout and go for the cheaper one, please feel free to share your opinion. 

 

I was thinking this vehicle is made in America and to keep it as American as possible, I should buy the American Master Cylinder.

[Steve9]

I would resleeve the master cylinder and wheel cylinders. You are risking nothing by rebuilding the original parts. What if these new parts don’t bolt right up? Then you’re in the return for refund mode and plenty of times that can be painful. I even had my clutch disc and pressure plate rebuilt like this because with antique parts you can’t be 100% sure that they will get it right. There is one major player who I will not name here that sells “close enough” products. I know, it happened to me, caveat emptor!