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1975 Chevrolet Cosworth Vega


bowtieollie
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Good day to my fellow AACA friends,

 

I am a bit confused and reaching out for a clarification on Class Judging with the AACA.

I am the proud, original owner of a 1975 Chevrolet Cosworth Vega and am now entertaining a show schedule with the AACA for 2018/19 with this vehicle.

 

I do not know which Class she should be placed for proper judging?

 

Thank you very much and Happy Holidays to all!

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A bit more information would be needed in order to answer your question. Is the car a restored "showcar" or is it an original survivor, or is it a "daily driver" type of car. A "20 footer" would probably best be entered be in Driver Participation Class (DPC). A basically all original, although weathered car would probably best be entered in Historic Preservation of Original Features (HPOF). A restored 1975 show car should be entered in Class 27K (Production Vehicles 1974-1975). 

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21 hours ago, bowtieollie said:

Hello Matt,

 

Thank you for the courtesy of the reply to my question.

 

The Cosworth is in showroom condition - so I shall choose the 27K class.

Merry Christmas to you!

 

Just wondering if you're in VA? I think I judged this beautiful car this year at your local Chapter show :)

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Hi Annie,

 

I know your Suburban from previous events we have shared.   As Tommy points out - I am a PA guy.  Last time the Cosworth was in VA was in 2008 at a VCCA event where she earned her Junior.   Its time to introduce her to the AACA events.   Only issue are tires - as they no longer produce the alpha numeric radials.    The P metric will have to suffice.

 

Merry Christmas to you both!   Nice to hear from an dear friend.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 5:41 PM, MCHinson said:

A bit more information would be needed in order to answer your question. Is the car a restored "showcar" or is it an original survivor, or is it a "daily driver" type of car. A "20 footer" would probably best be entered be in Driver Participation Class (DPC). A basically all original, although weathered car would probably best be entered in Historic Preservation of Original Features (HPOF). A restored 1975 show car should be entered in Class 27K (Production Vehicles 1974-1975). 

I'm planning on showing my original '69 Corvair 500, but do not understand the choice bowtieollie made.

If the car is original and not restored,  would it be better to enter the car in HPOF ?

Thanks.

Edited by bobg1951chevy (see edit history)
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If it is in showroom condition, it should do fine in the Class Judging either as an original or if it were restored. If unrestored and not in showroom condtion, HPOF would be a better choice. The owner can choose whichever one he or she wishes.

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27 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

If it is in showroom condition, it should do fine in the Class Judging either as an original or if it were restored. If unrestored and not in showroom condtion, HPOF would be a better choice. The owner can choose whichever one he or she wishes.

Thank you Mr. Hinson. 

So, AACA Class Judging does not distinguish  between a RESTORED vehicle from a PRESERVED vehicle ? 

If the above is accurate, there is no benefit to PRESERVE a vehicle, when you can RESTORE a vehicle back to factory appearance .... and obtain the same AACA judging results.

To define .... mine is original, not restored, but close to showroom condition with 28,000 miles.   Where should it be ?

This judging process is still a jumble to me ..... am wanting to obtain my  JUDGING MANUAL, but should wait,  I've been told for the 2018  copy.

My thinking may be erroneous, hoping for everyones'  patience.

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I would encourge you to come to the NC Region Annual Meeting and attend the judging school. Bring your car and the experienced judges there will be happy to "judge" your car and give you advice on which class you might want to enter your car. If it is original, HPOF would certainly be an appropriate choice. If it is in good enough shape, and you would prefer the more difficult option of competing in Class Judging, that might be how you want to proceed. In a few minutes, an experienced judge could give you an educated opinion on if you would be likely to be successful in Class Judging or  not.

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You can get your Judges Guidelines now and free by going to the AACA HOME PAGE and click on PUBLICATIONS.  You can download it.  This will be the 2017 manual, but for the information you are looking for, it will be accurate.  By mid to late February the 2018 manual should be available to download.  

 

AACA has three distinct divisions for shows.  CLASS JUDGING is point judging of cars.  Most are restored, but there are a few original cars shown in this division.  Original cars compete against restored cars with no distinction between the two for point deductions.  HISTORIC PRESERVATION OF ORIGINAL FEATURES (HPOF) is evaluation and certification of unrestored vehicles.  Deductions are made for areas where restoration is observed or disclosed by the owner.  This division was established to promote the preservation of unrestored vehicles to be used as guides for individuals restoring their vehicles.  DRIVER PARTICIPATION is for cars which may have some restoration done to the point they can not be considered as an HPOF car, but are not restored to the level to compete in Class Judging.  This division also permits some modifications without deduction, such as radial tires on a car where they were never offered, a modern radio or aftermarket air conditioning.  The Judges Guidelines will explain this in better detail.

 

If you attend the Charlotte show, consider attending the Judges School on Friday at 2:00 in the Media Center at the Speedway.  

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10 hours ago, Verne L Frantz said:

Bobg, I would encourage you to preserve your original car rather than restoring it. There are only so many originals left. You only have two choices: either preserve history or destroy it.

Verne, I understand and agree with your comments.

 I would not consider any restoration on this car.

It has been stored, on and off, for many years.

28.000 miles with documentation since new.

Does documentation play a part in the judging process ?

DSCN3698.JPG

DSCN3673.JPG

DSCN3682.JPG

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5 minutes ago, 61polara said:

You can get your Judges Guidelines now and free by going to the AACA HOME PAGE and click on PUBLICATIONS.  You can download it.  This will be the 2017 manual, but for the information you are looking for, it will be accurate.  By mid to late February the 2018 manual should be available to download.  

 

AACA has three distinct divisions for shows.  CLASS JUDGING is point judging of cars.  Most are restored, but there are a few original cars shown in this division.  Original cars compete against restored cars with no distinction between the two for point deductions.  HISTORIC PRESERVATION OF ORIGINAL FEATURES (HPOF) is evaluation and certification of unrestored vehicles.  Deductions are made for areas where restoration is observed or disclosed by the owner.  This division was established to promote the preservation of unrestored vehicles to be used as guides for individuals restoring their vehicles.  DRIVER PARTICIPATION is for cars which may have some restoration done to the point they can not be considered as an HPOF car, but are not restored to the level to compete in Class Judging.  This division also permits some modifications without deduction, such as radial tires on a car where they were never offered, a modern radio or aftermarket air conditioning.  The Judges Guidelines will explain this in better detail.

 

If you attend the Charlotte show, consider attending the Judges School on Friday at 2:00 in the Media Center at the Speedway.  

Great information Dave. 

My car DOES have 13 " radials, but do not know how the radials would affect the evaluation and certification in HPOF.

 

 

 

 

 

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Bob,

As I understand it, documentation is mostly only a concern in point judging where a feature is questioned by the judges who aren't certain that feature was legit from the factory or the dealer. The guidelines strongly suggest that an owner of a car with certain rare features bring along some documentation to prove they are correct.

 

Verne

Edited by Verne L Frantz (see edit history)
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Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification.  Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event.  Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class.  Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April.

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3 hours ago, Verne L Frantz said:

Bob,

As I understand it, documentation is mostly only a concern in point judging where a feature is questioned by the judges who aren't certain that feature was legit from the factory or the dealer. The guidelines strongly suggest that an owner of a car with certain rare features bring along some documentation to prove they are correct.

 

Verne

Verne, the only features / accessories on the car are the ones that came on the car, with the radials being the exception.

I have the original window sticker which validates the accessories.

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2 hours ago, 61polara said:

Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification.  Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event.  Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class.  Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April.

Dave, See my comment to Verne, regarding my accessories and window sticker.

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8 hours ago, bobg1951chevy said:

If I understand, radials would count as ONE DEDUCTION and not FIVE DEDUCTIONS for 5 tires ?

 

No, Each incorrect tire would receive the maximum deduction for tires. Currently that would be 5 points each. I am waiting for the 2018 Guidelines but I have heard that the number of points for tires will be less. It is basically a rumor, but a well sourced rumor.

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Matt .......

61 polara stated "Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification"

I have 5 radial tires, which would  CURRENTLY = 25 point deduction.

Based on what 61 polara says, my 25 point deduction for radials would never allow me to obtain HPOF certification.

Or ..... am I confusing DEDUCTIONS with POINTS ?

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Deductions in HPOF are different from Points in Class Judging.

In Class Judging, 5 incorrect tires would currently be a 25 point deduction out of 400 points.  

In HPOF, as I understand it, that would be one deduction of the 4 that a car the year of your car would be allowed and still be eligible for Certification. 

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14 hours ago, MCHinson said:

Deductions in HPOF are different from Points in Class Judging.

In Class Judging, 5 incorrect tires would currently be a 25 point deduction out of 400 points.  

In HPOF, as I understand it, that would be one deduction of the 4 that a car the year of your car would be allowed and still be eligible for Certification. 

Thank you Matt for the clarification.

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  • 2 months later...
On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:57 PM, 61polara said:

Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification.  Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event.  Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class.  Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April.

Dave, please check your messages.  Thanks.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:57 PM, 61polara said:

Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification.  Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event.  Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class.  Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April.

 

Correct tires for these cars are pretty much non existent, and have been for some time. Seems like the correct reproduction 13" tires get sidestepped there is not enough of a demand for them.

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/11/2018 at 3:12 PM, John348 said:

 

Correct tires for these cars are pretty much non existent, and have been for some time. Seems like the correct reproduction 13" tires get sidestepped there is not enough of a demand for them.

 

The deduction for radials has been lowered from 5 points per tire to 2 points per tire in the 2018 Judging Manual

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14 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

 

The deduction for radials has been lowered from 5 points per tire to 2 points per tire in the 2018 Judging Manual

I am aware of that, in my opinion  if the correct tire is available then it should be a full deduction

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And the full deduction is 2 points per tire!

 

Are we now discussing if the correct tire is unobtainium the deduction should be different?

Edited by Frank DuVal (see edit history)
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