64 Front shocks?

[Rob Mangieri]

I have a 64 Riviera that a good friend of mine allowed me to purchase. He took excellent care of this “barn find” original survivor car for last decade. Up until 2005 it had been in the original owners garage since 1980 stored in non running condition. 

 

That said the front end is all original as far as I can tell and just now hit 98,000 original documented miles. It drives and rides nicely too.

 

My question: 

The shocks appear to have some type of flat wound coil spring around them almost like a motorcycle coil over would from the 70s. (Not the main coil the car rides on) was this a stock shock or an aftermarket replacement or upgrade back in the day?? I’ve not encountered a shock like this in the past. Oddly they aren’t blown or leaking?

 

 

Thanks again, 

 

-Rob

[1965rivgs]

Hi Rob,

  Apparently your front end is not ALL original. These are definitely aftermarket shocks which are usually found in the rear but were available in the aftermarket for all four corners.

  Tom Mooney

[Seafoam65]

                        Obviously this was done because the springs were sagging on the car and it was sitting too low. These are called

"Helper shocks" These were an inexpensive way to get back to stock ride height without the trouble or expense of replacing the

coil springs on the car. another commonly used device for this are the coil spring spacers that twist in between the front coils

and raise the ride height back to stock when the front springs are sagging. If the car is sitting at the right height then enjoy driving it and don't worry about them. If the shocks eventually go bad that would be a good time to change the springs and go back to regular shocks.

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

Did you test those shocks to see how well they work?  I pulled some shocks of a similar vintage from a car not too long ago.  I was able to compress them with one hand.  And AFAIK, they still haven't rebounded.

 

You might want to pull them (or at least remove the bottom bolts) to see if they're having any affect on the ride height.  If they are, you might want to investigate new springs as a better solution.

 

 

[dr914]

I have used with great success, bilstein gas shocks and GS springs, gives the car firmer compliant suspension and a lower look that is not too low.  From the moment we purchased our 64 in May of 64 I always though that the car really handled well as compared to the other cars out there, until, after driving Porsches for many years, I got back into our Riv when my Dad gave it to me, and wondered what happened to it!  Even new shocks and springs did nothing for the handling!   I finally convinced Bilstein to look into making shocks for the car, which they did, and mating them with factory replica GS springs gave just the edge that I needed to make the car really handle well.  NOW, I hate the seat that does not hug me in, and the brakes, that will not stop!   (I installed the quick ratio steering box which helped as well)  Hate to change the stock looking brakes on this pristine car, but the car is too fast and handles way too well to suffer with the old drum brakes, and booster

[Rob Mangieri]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The car actually sits "OK" but I would prefer the front to be a bit lower. I had a feeling these were a "band aid" item and may not even be needed. My plan is to remove them and check the height without them, then if acceptable ill replace them with normal shocks. dr914 I like the sound of what you did, and yes agreed I do think the brakes could use an upgrade especially the single reservoir master cylinder. Those Bilstein shocks sound like the best option. I like the easy steering for a cruiser, but the faster ratio would be nice too. This car rides well but not sure how wiped out these shocks are. Likely relics from the 70's or 80s and I cant imagine they are still good.

[Seafoam65]

               Where can one purchase the Bilstein shocks ?

[dr914]

I advertise the shocks and springs in the review, (did not want to make my post commercial, but this set up was so good that it put a smile on my face

[msdminc]

Winston, I got mine from AutoAtlanta, great service, quick delivery, and they know Rivieras.  This is the link to their site, http://www.autoatlanta.com/index.php,  They cater to Porche folks and they are also all over 1st gen Rivieras too, as I understand.  I believe dr914 is from AutoAtlanta.  

 

Rock on

 

gord

Edited December 13, 2017 by msdminc (see edit history)

[dr914]

sure am and love 63-65 buick rivieras until the day I die, and have been since may 28 1964 when my Dad and I went over to the buick dealer in west hartford and took delivery of what my Dad said was the best car he ever owned.  Every night when I arrive home, I lift the flannel cover and pat it on the hip and remember all of the great times our family and I had in that car.  The funny thing is that my Dad and then I (were) are only temporary curators of our own personal 64 Buick Riviera museum.  That car will be around years after I die with its own new curator (and I cannot imagine anyone else owning that car!)

[KongaMan]

The trouble, of course, is that overhauling/upgrading everything needed to effect even a "reasonable" makeover of the handling gets expensive:

- Bilstein shocks are $400(!) a set  (even KYBs are ~$140)

- 4 new springs are $400-500
- Larger sway bar is ~$125

- LCA bushings are $50-60; track bar bushings are ~$30, reaction rod bushings are ~$30.  If you buy the only off-the-shelf rear control arm bushings available, you're in it for almost $500 for all 6 (although there's a DIY option for substantially less).

- Quick ratio steering box is $150-400 (depending on where you get it and if you outsource a rebuild)

- That doesn't even address any sloppy parts in the steering linkage.

 

Didja add all that up yet?   The trouble is that there's not much sense in throwing a bunch of money at one thing (i.e. new shocks) if other parts are worn out (i.e. your springs have dropped or your bushings are shot).

 

One thing you might try right off the bat is replacing the rear track arm bushings.  It's cheap, it's easy, and it can make a tremendous difference.

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[Bill Stoneberg]

I did the bushings along with replacing the rear springs on Rob's car about 10 years ago as it was sagging badly.

[dr914]

thankfully the cars are worth more these days.  Springs and shocks are certainly one thing to do after all of the bushings and steering linkage parts are tight  (remember Randy Rymal and his so called restored center link??)

[RivNut]

Randy Rymal,  the only person banned from the ROA for unscrupulous dealings.   In 2006, he was caught trying to rejoin the ROA under his mother's name.  Shouldn't have used the same home town for an address.  DUH

[KongaMan]

This is a bit of a tangent, but was Rymal affiliated with Sherri Meyer in any way?

[telriv]

In Randy's defense, at one time he WAS SUPER to deal with. I sent him 10 center links which he rebuilt for me. Did a GOOD job as they are ALL still on the cars they were installed on, including mine. So, in the beginning he WAS GOOD. I don't know or care what transpired. It's too bad it went the way it did. Shot himself in the foot so to speak.

Over the years I've done ALL the suspension work being talked about here. Back in the 60's (68-69) I sent my original shocks to Koni. They made me shocks that are still on the car today. On all the shocks is spelled out "Special". I ordered rebuild kits for them & oil. I would believe it would be near impossible to get this stuff today. Amazingly the faster you go the tighter they get. I don't know how that works out or why, but it's a VERY comfortable feeling, and this is with OLD oil filled shocks & not any kind of "Gas" charging. At the time when you could go to Sears or some other supplier & buy shocks for $5.00 each the Koni's cost $60.00 each. But time & mileage has proved they are WORTH THE PRICE!!! I've installed the Bilsteins on a few other cars, one being a '64 Wildcat & THEY DO MAKE A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE.  SO, YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

I don't use Poly bushings in anything that has any kind of major movement as they are too hard & squeak after awhile. I did rear track bar bushings in Poly, along with strut bar bushings that I modified Mustang bushings. Also used them on top of shocks which also give a firmer feel rather than the softer rubber. Used them also for the front sway bar bushings & links.

I had John Carlson, who at the time worked for Addco, make me a 1 5/16ths. front sway bar. I bought, at the time, a rear 1"  sway bar from J.C. Whitney. I just mounted it differently than the instructions stated so it wouldn't hang so low.  Ungraded my steering box to a newer "808" box. I have 2 1/2 turns lock-lock.

At one ROA meet 2 different guys drove my '64 & couldn't believe how well it handled almost as if it had rack & pinion steering. Even with the "S" rated tires it handles well enough for me. It's NO PORSCHE by any means but it will surprise you being the size of car it is. THEY CAN BE MADE TO HANDLE & STEER ALMOST AS GOOD AS A MORE MODERN CAR.

Don't cut these vehicles short, they were VERY WELL DESIGNED. Even back in the day they handled & rode better than most all the other 60's cars.

Problem is as stated it can get costly. I do ALL my own work & much of this was done years ago when $$$ were more reasonable on many of the parts. To me it was $$$ well spent.

Just my dimes worth.

 

 

Tom T.

[eric wohlberg]

Afternoon everyone.

I am new to this group and sadly not a Riv owner. But I do have a great 64 Estate Wagon and am trying to locate frt Shocks for it as I broke one this w/e.

A good 10 yrs ago, I put a set of HD Shocks all around from rare Parts . Apparently their supplier was Cure Ride in PA.  The part # is 737974. They are expensive $250.00 /set.

I have been asking around and Race Car Dynamics indicated that  Bilstein 55 R101  is listed for the old Buicks and I see that some people are running them on the Rivs.  It looks like 1 guy has them on a 64 Wildcat.. (I run Bilstien on my old fastback and have been happy with the performance, better than the  KYB's which I was running).

Does anyone know if these would work on my Wagon?  She is a big boned girl, not fat but just short for her weight..

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Eric 

[telriv]

For ANYONE that's interested I stock & sell the faster ratio steering boxes at 2 1/2 turns lock-lock.

  On the '64 wagon the front shocks are the same. Not sure about the rears, MAYBE. I've installed the Bilsteins on quite a few cars & EVERYONE has been satisfied.

 

Tom T.

[Turbinator]

On 12/13/2017 at 8:31 PM, telriv said:

In Randy's defense, at one time he WAS SUPER to deal with. I sent him 10 center links which he rebuilt for me. Did a GOOD job as they are ALL still on the cars they were installed on, including mine. So, in the beginning he WAS GOOD. I don't know or care what transpired. It's too bad it went the way it did. Shot himself in the foot so to speak.

Over the years I've done ALL the suspension work being talked about here. Back in the 60's (68-69) I sent my original shocks to Koni. They made me shocks that are still on the car today. On all the shocks is spelled out "Special". I ordered rebuild kits for them & oil. I would believe it would be near impossible to get this stuff today. Amazingly the faster you go the tighter they get. I don't know how that works out or why, but it's a VERY comfortable feeling, and this is with OLD oil filled shocks & not any kind of "Gas" charging. At the time when you could go to Sears or some other supplier & buy shocks for $5.00 each the Koni's cost $60.00 each. But time & mileage has proved they are WORTH THE PRICE!!! I've installed the Bilsteins on a few other cars, one being a '64 Wildcat & THEY DO MAKE A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE.  SO, YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

I don't use Poly bushings in anything that has any kind of major movement as they are too hard & squeak after awhile. I did rear track bar bushings in Poly, along with strut bar bushings that I modified Mustang bushings. Also used them on top of shocks which also give a firmer feel rather than the softer rubber. Used them also for the front sway bar bushings & links.

I had John Carlson, who at the time worked for Addco, make me a 1 5/16ths. front sway bar. I bought, at the time, a rear 1"  sway bar from J.C. Whitney. I just mounted it differently than the instructions stated so it wouldn't hang so low.  Ungraded my steering box to a newer "808" box. I have 2 1/2 turns lock-lock.

At one ROA meet 2 different guys drove my '64 & couldn't believe how well it handled almost as if it had rack & pinion steering. Even with the "S" rated tires it handles well enough for me. It's NO PORSCHE by any means but it will surprise you being the size of car it is. THEY CAN BE MADE TO HANDLE & STEER ALMOST AS GOOD AS A MORE MODERN CAR.

Don't cut these vehicles short, they were VERY WELL DESIGNED. Even back in the day they handled & rode better than most all the other 60's cars.

Problem is as stated it can get costly. I do ALL my own work & much of this was done years ago when $$$ were more reasonable on many of the parts. To me it was $$$ well spent.

Just my dimes worth.

 

 

Tom T.

Tom, I’m all in for functional upgrades/repair if the investment yields a return I can enjoy. For instance I’m not trying to make my 63 zRiviera have a rack and pinion steering/suspension set up. I am aiming for suspicion that adds to my safety. I want brakes that stop the car in reasonable stopping distance. The braking system on my car is just fine.

Better shocks, re rubber bushings and what ever else makes plenty sense. A sway bar front and back is not expensive when I do the work myself.

i have a tendency to kick up my highway speed on the Interstate highways and more stability makes me happy.

Turbinator