'35 Packard 12 woodgrain pattern

[1935Packard]

I recently had the horn ring of my '35 Packard 1207 woodgrained -- as often happened with these cars, the woodgrain at some point was stripped and the ring has been just chrome for a few decades -- and I'm not sure the woograining shop did it correctly.  In particular, they think that the woodgrain pattern should be vertical, while the woodgrain for the dash is horizontal.  Here's a picture of what the horn ring looks like on the car with the vertical woodgrain on the completed horn ring (with the button missing, still at another shop). 

 

Does anyone know if that orientation (and pattern) is correct?  A lot of the '35 12s have been redone with a very different woodgrain pattern, as the 12 pattern was understated, but I would like it to be as correct as possible.  Thanks!

 

 

[alsancle]

I'll see if I can get a picture of my dad's and post it.

[1935Packard]

Thanks, AJ!

[West Peterson]

I have seen totally different dashboard woodgraining on 1935 Packard 12s. Usually it is burled, and doesn't have a horizontal orientation. The horn ring is the same. Burled, without vertical or horizontal orientation. I have also seen several horn buttons on 100-point restorations that were painted brown.

 

Purchasing this photo might reveal what the factory did.

http://www.autolit.com/Store/1935-packard-12-limousine-interior-factory-photo.html

[1935Packard]

3 hours ago, West Peterson said:

I have seen totally different dashboard woodgraining on 1935 Packard 12s. Usually it is burled, and doesn't have a horizontal orientation. The horn ring is the same. Burled, without vertical or horizontal orientation. I have also seen several horn buttons on 100-point restorations that were painted brown.

 

Purchasing this photo might reveal what the factory did.

http://www.autolit.com/Store/1935-packard-12-limousine-interior-factory-photo.html

 

I agree that it is usually burled on restored cars.  But the marque experts I have talked to (and the restorers of some of those restored cars) tell me that it's not correct. The burled look has the richest appearance, and enough people have forgotten what the original was like that a lot of people just opt for it. But apparentl the 12s had a much more understated woodgraining.  The part I haven't been able to figured out is what the understated approach looks like; some unrestored cars seem to have just brown, but it's a little hard to tell.

[1935Packard]

This factory photo I found online is the closest I have found, although the resolution isn't great.  If there's a woodgrain in that horn ring, it's very subtle.  I purchased a copy of the photo just now, but it will take a while for it to get to me; if others are interested in a high-res photo, I'll post one when I get it. The horn ring I had done (with vertical woodgrain) is actually pretty subtle in normal light; the flash on my camera made it seem like a clearer grain than it is. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Yep. You need to find the original. I believe the Detroit Library has them, or you could get the one I linked to you previously.

[1935Packard]

2 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

Yep. You need to find the original. I believe the Detroit Library has them, or you could get the one I linked to you previously.

 

Thanks, West.  Just ordered.  That was a really good idea.  Too bad the old photos aren't in color. 

[alsancle]

This is a picture of my dad's 35.  It was done under the auspices of Don Sears so I'm going to guess it is correct.

[alsancle]

Ignore the finish on the wheel.  It is going to have to be redone.

[1935Packard]

Thanks, AJ!  That looks to be pretty much the same as what my woodgrainer did, with the vertical woodgrain in the same basic pattern as (but slightly darker than) the horizontal woodgrain on the dash.

[1935Packard]

For those still interested in this thread, a friend who has a very original '35 Twelve sent on this picture of his horn ring.  No woodgrain pattern at all.  Hmm, the plot thickens.  I'll have more when I get the original factory picture, which should be in a few days.

[1935Packard]

Here's the factory picture.  There seems to be a very very fine vertical grain, but you can barely see it in the picture.  Not sure what to make of it.  Any thoughts?

[John_Mereness]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:47 PM, 1935Packard said:

For those still interested in this thread, a friend who has a very original '35 Twelve sent on this picture of his horn ring.  No woodgrain pattern at all.  Hmm, the plot thickens.  I'll have more when I get the original factory picture, which should be in a few days.

Backtrack on this:  Friends have a fairly  unrestored 1935  Twelve and they said the other day they wanted to get rid of the brown painted trim and re-woodgrain to original.  My reply was look at it super close and put a flashlight on it  - they did and said "it is grained" and "original too."  Yep !

Edited December 24, 2017 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Backtrack on this:  Friends have a fairly  unrestored 1935  Twelve and they said the other day they wanted to get rid of the brown painted trim and re-woodgrain too original.  My reply was look at it super close and put a flashlight on it  - they did and said "it is grained" and "original too."  Yep !

 

Interesting, John!  Any chance they would be willing to take a picture to send on to me?  I'm not sure what to tell my woodgrainer, as the factory picture's very subtle woodgrain is a little hard to make out.

[West Peterson]

The woodgrain in the factory photo looks like what AJ has posted of his car, to me. A much finer (closer) grain than what is on the dashboard.

[John_Mereness]

Sorry, do not have a really detailed photo.  I will tell you though that unless you get out a flashlight and really look you will not see the graining - looks like dark brown paint.  Has a grained steering wheel (not painted on, but actually is grained in the Bakelite).  Horn button was redone in probably early 70's as was most all the large pieces of plating on the car (ie do not use it for a pattern for your restoration).    Original Interior (only one set of nail holes - have had front door panels off to work on door lock springs and only one set nail holes under cushions and ....).  The theme seems to have been grained/brown dash that flowed to dark brown (now faded) carpets.  Legend: Peach farmer from LA bought new (want to say dealer was up by Pasadena).     http://www.significantcars.com/cars/1935Packard5/

Edited December 24, 2017 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

Thanks, John!  Here's a high resolution image of the entire factory photo.   Click on it a few times to get it full size so you can see the details. Interestingly, there are a few details in this that I haven't seen on top-notch restorations, like the black paint in the center of the gas pedal and chrome on the steering column only down to the brace.  

 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[alsancle]

If you want I'll drop an email to Don Sears.  I'm pretty sure he was still a Pebble Packard class judge when he had my dad's stuff done.  

 

I agree with West, but depending on what you are going to do with the car,  there is what the factory did, and then there is what is currently accepted by judges as to what the factory did.    In this case I think they are the same but not always!

Edited December 25, 2017 by alsancle (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

AJ, if you would be willing to drop that e-mail, I'd appreciate it.  The car is a driver that I don't have judged, and I just want it to be done correctly for the sake of having it be correct.   Whether today's judges agree with is important to me only to the extent they're right.

Edited December 26, 2017 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[alsancle]

I showed Don the picture I posted and he said: "Horn button is correct but the grain should be horizontal not vertical".

[West Peterson]

Don's information conflicts with the factory photo.

 

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, West Peterson said:

Don's information conflicts with the factory photo.

 

 

Agreed.