52 Imperial

[Furyman]

This rough 52 is for sale on Craigslist in Texas. What is the hidden compartment for behind the rear bumper ?  The original colour-red is kind of strange for an 8 passenger Imperial.

Anybody recognize the coat of arms/logo on the door ?  Nice cheap project....somebody needs to save it.

[keiser31]

Spare tire storage behind the bumper.

[Furyman]

Strange place to have to jam a tire into when you have the spacious  trunk right above it. Must be used on 8 passenger and Limos only...regular Imperials don't seem to have that cubby hole.

[keiser31]

It is the only model with that feature. With all of those passengers, they needed all of the luggage space possible.

Edited November 21, 2017 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

I'm pretty sure the regular Imperial sedans had the same spare tire storage compartment, if just for the 51 and 52 model years. The limousine is a rare car, and one of the most expensive cars made that year.

 

 I understand the Imperial limousines were all custom built, special order models finished by the Derham coachworks in Rosemont Pennsylvania. They were sent from Detroit to Derham where they were repainted completely and the interiors fitted. Many had a padded top. It is possible they were shipped unpainted. Could the original owner been the fire chief of some town or the owner of a circus?

 

Later..... the paint under the door handles is black which makes me think black was the original color and the red or pink was applied later.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[keiser31]

46 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

I'm pretty sure the regular Imperial sedans had the same spare tire storage compartment, if just for the 51 and 52 model years. The limousine is a rare car, and one of the most expensive cars made that year.

 

 I understand the Imperial limousines were all custom built, special order models finished by the Derham coachworks in Rosemont Pennsylvania. They were sent from Detroit to Derham where they were repainted completely and the interiors fitted. Many had a padded top. It is possible they were shipped unpainted. Could the original owner been the fire chief of some town or the owner of a circus?

 

Later..... the paint under the door handles is black which makes me think black was the original color and the red or pink was applied later.

I don't think the regular Imperial had the spare behind the bumper. I see no opening panel....

[alsfarms]

I wonder if this particular car served as a funeral limo.?  Just my thoughts for the door emblem.

Al

[keiser31]

2 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

I wonder if this particular car served as a funeral limo.?  Just my thoughts for the door emblem.

Al

Or maybe some country club coat of arms?

[keiser31]

Here you go....Crown Imperial limo model only....http://imperialclub.org/Yr/1952/52Owners/Page10.htm

Edited November 21, 2017 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Furyman]

The door logo appears to say Dieu Fills Dames. I thought maybe military....the top of the logo almost looks like a hammer head shark . Red might be the original colour.

[Rusty_OToole]

Can't have been easy getting a heavy duty tire out of that compartment, if you got a flat rear tire on a rutted muddy road. O well that's why you have a chauffeur. It seems this feature did not last long, they must have figured out it was a costly mistake with no advantages.

[Furyman]

I think a fair number of the 50-53 Imperial and Windsor 8 Passengers were used by the Military. I have a 50 Windsor Ex US navy car....has a removable B Post on the right side maybe for a stretcher ?

[Rusty_OToole]

They built 20,000 limousines with that body between 1949 and 1954. They were available as Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler Windsor, Chrysler New Yorker Chrysler Imperial and Crown Imperial. The Crown Imperial was the most expensive and luxurious and was favored by tycoons and show business stars. I doubt any Crown Imperials were bought by the military or limousine services.

 

The removable B post was for ambulance duty. The seats would fold down and there was room for a stretcher.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Furyman]

Don't forget about General MacArthur's Imperial.

[Rusty_OToole]

I believe that car was the general's personal property not government issue.

[Furyman]

Plus this oddity was on E Bay last year. 50 Imperial....one of the last built ,19 cars from the last serial #. It's a Hemi ! I corresponded with the owner in NC. He sent off to Chrysler Historical for info and they had no record of the car. The Vin plate has the JMC in front of the VIN # and those weird  crossed things at the end...they look like German stick grenades lol. Too bad this car was toasted .

[c49er]

A 145" WB "Crown Imperial" 8 passenger or divider window limousine is a completely different car from the much more common Chrysler 131" Imperial.

Roughly 200 "Crown Imperials" were built each year...

Where as the much more common four door standard "Imperial" maybe 10,000 were built each year.

Searched this out of 70 years of Chrysler.

[Chrycoman]

 

Those 145½" wheelbase Crown Imperials came as 8 passenger sedans or 8 passenger  limousines. The limous had the partition.   Both had full front and rear seats with 2 jump seats in the rear compartment.

 

For the 1949-1952 models :

Chrysler Crown Imperial (145½") - 609 sedans (8p) and 588 limousines

Chrysler Saratoga (139½") - 183 sedans (8p) and 0 limousines (1951-1952)

Chrysler Windsor Deluxe (139½") - 720  sedans (8p) and 152 limousines (1951-1952)

Chrysler Windsor (139½") - 1,769  sedans (8p) and 247 limousines

Chrysler Royal (139½") - 560  sedans (8p) and 0 limousines (1949-1950)

DeSoto DeLuxe (139½") - 578  sedans (8) and 0 limousines

DeSoto Taxi (139½") - 5,760 sedans (8) with partition

DeSoto Custom (139½") - 1,825 sedans (8) and 0 limousines

DeSoto Custom Suburban (139½") - 1,352 sedans (9 pass) - full seat in place of jump seats and fold up seats in rear for access to trunk compartment.

DeSoto Firedome (139½") - 80 sedans (8) and 0 limousines  (1952)

Dodge Coronet (137½") - 3,207 sedans (8) and 0 limousines (1949-1951)

1949-1952 TOTAL - 16,643 sedans and 987 limousines

 

DeSoto shipped taxi bodies in white to Waters Co, who completed taxi conversion and painted the bodies

 

Chrysler continued with this body through 1954 updating the front clip and windshield.   Production for the two years came to 1,949 sedans, 3,700 taxis and 188 limousines for DeSoto and Chrysler combined.

 

A major update was done for 1955 with Chrysler expecting the demand for the LWB taxi to continue.  LWB wheelbase was now 149.5".  But NYC scrapped the LWB taxi regulations in 1954 in favour of standard sedans.  Thus only the 1955 and 1956 Crown Imperials continued with Chrysler-built LWB models - 96 sedans and 302 limousines in total.   And for 1957 Chrysler went with Ghia to supply the LWB limous.

 

That 1950 Crown Imperial has "U.S.A. 178564" painted on the underside of the hood.  This one may have originally belonged to the US military.   Cadillac 67 and 75 LWB models and Packard Clippers were common cars as general staff cars in WW II.  Somewhere along the line the straight eight was replaced by a hem V8. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Chrycoman (see edit history)

[Doxerman51]

One individual on a Dodge truck forum was stating that the Crown Imperials had the 8&3/4” R&P third member as found on some dodge model trucks of the 40’s on up to 1959. Any truth to this?

[Rusty_OToole]

I do recall that the limousines had a full floating rear axle like a 3/4 ton truck, and the rear track was 6" wider than the standard sedan. They would need a heavy duty axle to carry the weight.

[c49er]

I have worked on a couple limo's.... a 1935 CW Airflow Divider window and a 1952  C53 Crown.

Neither had full floaters but the 52 had the Ausco lambert disc brakes.

The 145" WB Crown Imperial Limo's (1946 up through 1953 ) rear pumpkin (3.58 ratio) will bolt into the 1946-53 Dodge full floater 1 ton rear end housing. You have to swap the yokes etc.

[Doxerman51]

So c49er you are saying that the third member out of 46-53 Crown Imperial will bolt right into a I ton WD or later D series Pilothouse trucks? If so, why would it not fit into the later 54-56 Funtional design era 1 tons or the Power Giant series 3/4 ton trucks? I am going to install two 4 pinion 8&3/4” 4.10 ratio third members in my 1941 WC-12 Military 4x4. According to John Zentmeyer’s Power Train Interchange Booklet , all 8&3/4” third members will fit into any 1940 VD, 1941-42 WC 1/2 ton military and all post-war 1ton WD trucks and the others I have listed. The catch is that if installing a post-war third member in a pre-war housing you,will have to purchase step studs to install in the pre-war housings or tap the pre-war housing to accept the 7/16 holes in the post-war third member.  You will also have to have the correct axle shaft spline count to match the side gears of the third member you are installing and yokes etc. Am I wrong in assuming this? 

[c49er]

I don't have any experience with the early 40's dodge trucks  or the later 54-60 trucks or parts that fit these models..

Yes you do have to use 7/16" TO 3/8" step studs to swap a CI pumpkin into the dodge 1 ton housing.

The truck housing is 7/16" X 14 and the CI diff case has 3/8" stud or bolt hole sizing.

The 1 tons use a 16 spline axle shaft as do the 1946-52 Crown Imperials....

The 1 tons don't use/have or need a rear axle centering block to set axle shaft end play as do the cars. 

 

[Doxerman51]

c49er,

Thanks for your insight in ragrds to this matter. So the CI 3rd member has the 8&3/4” ring gear? Is it a 4 or 2 pinion geared 3rd member? Boy if I could find 2 sets of the 3.58 ring and pinion I’d be in fat city.  They made 3.91 sets for the 1 ton trucks but they are extremely hard to find let alone 2 complete 3rd members with 3.91 ratio. I was lucky enough to find 2 4.10 ratio ones, so I guess I should be happy about that. Imagine those CI ring and pinion sets are hard to find. 

[Hudsy Wudsy]

A little poking around on Google helped me identify the crest on the door as belonging to the "Kappa Alpha Order". It's an old southern fraternity established in the 1880s in Virginia. The faded motto actually reads "DIEU ET LES DAMES" which is French and means "God and the Ladies". It seems that it is all about honor and chivalry. Here's a copy from Google:

 

                                                         

Regarding the rear axle having a wider track, I don't think that I would have noticed it if I hadn't been looking for it, but in the second photo above it sure looks like the rear tire is positioned quite close to the fender.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[c49er]

1 hour ago, Doxerman51 said:

c49er,

Thanks for your insight in ragrds to this matter. So the CI 3rd member has the 8&3/4” ring gear? Is it a 4 or 2 pinion geared 3rd member? Boy if I could find 2 sets of the 3.58 ring and pinion I’d be in fat city.  They made 3.91 sets for the 1 ton trucks but they are extremely hard to find let alone 2 complete 3rd members with 3.91 ratio. I was lucky enough to find 2 4.10 ratio ones, so I guess I should be happy about that. Imagine those CI ring and pinion sets are hard to find. 

It's a 4 pinion diff... ring gear size don't know with the 3.58.

I've only seen one.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I'll just add that I read that this fraternity's colors were scarlet and gold, so that faded sort of rosy color probably was once a real red and was the original color.