6 Volt Booster Starter Necessary?

[GrahamPaige29]

24 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

GOOD!  

 

Next test: Simple Timing Check

1. Pull the number 1 spark plug (closest to the fan, front of the engine)

2. Turn the engine over by hand till the piston is at the top of its travel (you should be able to see the piston or you can use a small screwdriver/wire to feel when it gets to the top; do not leave the object in the cylinder when you are turning I over)

3. Trace the spark plug wire back the distributer, note the position.  Remove the cap the rotor should be pointing to that position (#1).  

 

If it is one position off, rotate all the wires one position

 

Advance and retard is TDC this position "Top Dead Center".  Advance is before TDC; Retard is after TDC.  Advance you get more power, retard it is easier to start but less power.

Thanks.  I'm seriously considering buying a Carter BB1 carb that I saw for sale on ebay.  It is not completely rebuilt but cleaned up with new parts and just needs assembly.  A kit is included.  The option of sending my old Zenith away to get rebuilt won't be much less and I already tried to fix it with a kit but without much luck.  Some of the parts like the butterfly shafts got bent and the seals around the shafts are bad.  Since it's the "heart" of the fuel system, I'd like to have confidence that it's A-1. 

 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/CARTER-BB-1-CARB/112633966202?hash=item1a3981ee7a:g:6uUAAOSwSrNaAv3f

 

[Graham Man]

You want a BB1D (last round and best iteration)  I personally would not buy one without a tag, the tag is the carb identification. 

 

This one (112633966202) has the right mounting holes 2 11/16 and should have 1 1/4 throat.

 

If you put gas down the cylinder it should fire without a carburetor.

[GrahamPaige29]

7 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

You want a BB1D (last round and best iteration)  I personally would not buy one without a tag, the tag is the carb identification. 

 

This one (112633966202) has the right mounting holes 2 11/16 and should have 1 1/4 throat.

 

If you put gas down the cylinder it should fire without a carburetor.

I was able to get it to fire on each cylinder after I primed them.  Then it died I suspect from fuel starvation. 

 

I was looking at the BB1 earlier model and an old document said you needed an adapter to make it fit a Graham.  I guess the bolts were the right distance apart but the flange was not the right size.  With the BB1D it should mount ok with the 612?  I did find a real rusty one for only $199 and I could buy a rebuild kit.  This one has a weird "governor" on top that I could take off.  It does have it's tag. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carter-BB1D-Carburetor-With-Monarch-Governor-Seagrave/132391296616?epid=2091782288&hash=item1ed322de68:g:qCAAAOSwyi9Z7kWr&vxp=mtr

 

Sorry to bug you so much but you really are being a big help.  I'm a newbie and nervous about the purchases.

 

[Spinneyhill]

For my money, I would concentrate on what you have rather than introducing another set of difficulties with another unknown carburetor. I wouldn't think about something off a different application unless I knew what I was doing, in this case about what makes a carburetor work. A firetruck carb. is made for a completely different application. Once you have it running and assembled, then maybe think about improvements.

 

Have you done what Graham Man suggested? Please, one step at a time, methodically.

 

Then, if you loosen the fuel line at the carb and crank over, is it getting fuel? (it will leak!)

 

Is the fuel pump working? I assume it is the earliest AC type (model B), with a glass bowl. Is the glass bowl full of fuel? If not, it is not "sucking" fuel.

 

So then we have fuel at the carb. Have you set the float level correctly?

 

Just a note. With my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8, the best way to start cold is full choke, touch of hand throttle, crank. As soon as it catches, add a little bit of hand throttle and push the choke in a little bit. NO foot throttle - I tend to be a bit heavy on the pedal and it stalls. When it roughens, push the choke in further and compensate with hand throttle.

[GrahamPaige29]

1 minute ago, Spinneyhill said:

For my money, I would concentrate on what you have rather than introducing another set of difficulties with another unknown carburetor. I wouldn't think about something off a different application unless I knew what I was doing, in this case about what makes a carburetor work. A firetruck carb. is made for a completely different application. Once you have it running and assembled, then maybe think about improvements.

 

Have you done what Graham Man suggested? Please, one step at a time, methodically.

 

Then, if you loosen the fuel line at the carb and crank over, is it getting fuel? (it will leak!)

 

Is the fuel pump working? I assume it is the earliest AC type (model B), with a glass bowl. Is the glass bowl full of fuel? If not, it is not "sucking" fuel.

 

So then we have fuel at the carb. Have you set the float level correctly?

 

Just a note. With my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8, the best way to start cold is full choke, touch of hand throttle, crank. As soon as it catches, add a little bit of hand throttle and push the choke in a little bit. NO foot throttle - I tend to be a bit heavy on the pedal and it stalls. When it roughens, push the choke in further and compensate with hand throttle.

 

Hi Spinneyhill.  Yesterday after I got the starter cranking I took the fuel pump off and pumped it by hand several times.  It finally filled up the glass bowl all the way.  So I assumed it was pushing fuel into the carb.  I did rebuild the pump with a kit including a new diaphragm.  I tried to get it to turn over with priming but it only coughed and died after burning off the priming fuel.  I'm not sure how to set the float level.  Maybe tonight after I get home I'll pull the carb and take some detailed photos for you guys.  I'll also go over the ignition timing again. 

 

At least I had the joy of hearing the motor spinning under the power of the starter on the weekend!!!  You should have seen my  doing cartwheels after that.  My wife thinks I'm losing it.

[Spinneyhill]

1 minute ago, GrahamPaige29 said:

My wife thinks I'm losing it.

 

If you are messing around with a car made in 1929, It's too late, you have already lost it! That is what my wife tells me anyway.

 

Ref the fuel pump, don't tighten the stirrup holding the glass bowl too much. It will warp the top and the bowl won't seal against it = no fuel.

 

Here is The Carburetor Shop's Troubleshooting page. Go down to the bit about not starting.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm#Acceleratorpumps

 

Try doing what you have been doing in a different way. You may have been rehearsing the wrong way and doing it differently will find that error.

[Graham Man]

No you are not "loosing it"... sometimes it just takes time to get everything sorted out. 

Some people do jigsaw puzzles or collect stamps, we get to drive our hobby around.

 

I never use the gas tank and fuel pump to get a fresh project running.  I use a 1/2 gallon lawn mower tank, hang it on the firewall or something above the carburetor and let gravity do the work.  Remember to disconnect the fuel line to the pump first.

 

I had a fuel pump driving me crazy one time, rebuilt it several times, everything should have worked but it would still not run.  Finally out of despair I put an air line to the gas line from the carburetor to the tank and blew, nothing at first then it let go, something had blocked the fuel line or pick up, it had all been cleaned, still never figured out what it was, but it is still working two years later..... 

[GrahamPaige29]

26 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

 

If you are messing around with a car made in 1929, It's too late, you have already lost it! That is what my wife tells me anyway.

 

Ref the fuel pump, don't tighten the stirrup holding the glass bowl too much. It will warp the top and the bowl won't seal against it = no fuel.

 

Here is The Carburetor Shop's Troubleshooting page. Go down to the bit about not starting.

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm#Acceleratorpumps

 

Try doing what you have been doing in a different way. You may have been rehearsing the wrong way and doing it differently will find that error.

 

Haha I'm still married.  That's a good thing.  You just have to take your wife to dinner once in a while so she knows you're still alive.

[GrahamPaige29]

Hi guys. Took the carb apart again and gave it another cleaning. The only part I don’t get is the spring loaded brass piston.   At the bottom of the housing there seems to be some brass remnants of the old one. Is this part essential to the engine turning over or it it some kind of accelerator pump?  

[GrahamPaige29]

Look at the circular opening for the spring loaded piston. In the bottom you see the damage.  

 

 

[jan arnett (2)]

Back to your original question about getting it to turn over.  Since you had it out of the car you would not have this problem I had  but you could in the future.  I just tried the starter on my restored 23 Moon engine.  It didn't turn over in fact it did nothing.  In checking the ground I found I did too good of a job painting the engine and frame.  I had ground off the paint where the ground attach to the frame but the motor mounts were now insulated from the block due to the epoxy paint.  When I jumped ground  from the battery to a engine stud it would work.  Modern cars have ground straps which early cars do not.  Just something to remember.

 

 

[GrahamPaige29]

5 hours ago, jan arnett (2) said:

Back to your original question about getting it to turn over.  Since you had it out of the car you would not have this problem I had  but you could in the future.  I just tried the starter on my restored 23 Moon engine.  It didn't turn over in fact it did nothing.  In checking the ground I found I did too good of a job painting the engine and frame.  I had ground off the paint where the ground attach to the frame but the motor mounts were now insulated from the block due to the epoxy paint.  When I jumped ground  from the battery to a engine stud it would work.  Modern cars have ground straps which early cars do not.  Just something to remember.

 

 

 

I had a very similar issue. I had to run a ground strap from the starter to the frame  as I painted the parts too well and they were insulated. That plus the connections  on the starter motor were very corroded inside. 

[GrahamPaige29]

Hey guys.  Now that I have my engine spinning from the starter motor and the carb cleaned up can you help me with a (suspected) problem in timing.  I had primed the cylinders as was suggested.  On trying to start the car, there were bangs but I saw gases coming out of the carb choke!  Am I right in having the "eureka" moment that the timing is set exactly 180 degrees off???  Meaning I've set it igniting on the wrong stroke TDC?  Is this a common issue?

 

I had a moment last night while I was lying in bed that this was the issue.  My wife was mad at me that I wouldn't go to sleep but it was driving me crazy thinking about it. 

 

Also, there are timing marks on my flywheel that say "Spark Full Advance" but I think I assembled the flywheel 180 degrees off too.  I think you're supposed to be using this as alignment on the compression stroke.  I feel really stupid...

[GrahamPaige29]

On 11/18/2017 at 7:51 PM, jan arnett (2) said:

Back to your original question about getting it to turn over.  Since you had it out of the car you would not have this problem I had  but you could in the future.  I just tried the starter on my restored 23 Moon engine.  It didn't turn over in fact it did nothing.  In checking the ground I found I did too good of a job painting the engine and frame.  I had ground off the paint where the ground attach to the frame but the motor mounts were now insulated from the block due to the epoxy paint.  When I jumped ground  from the battery to a engine stud it would work.  Modern cars have ground straps which early cars do not.  Just something to remember.

 

 

 

Hey Jan.  Yeah same issue with me.  I did such a good job painting the parts that there was no ground or "earth" for the starter motor!!!  I ended up grinding off some paint and running a strap from the engine to the frame just to make sure I have good ground.

 

[PFitz]

47 minutes ago, GrahamPaige29 said:

Hey guys.  Now that I have my engine spinning from the starter motor and the carb cleaned up can you help me with a (suspected) problem in timing.  I had primed the cylinders as was suggested.  On trying to start the car, there were bangs but I saw gases coming out of the carb choke!  Am I right in having the "eureka" moment that the timing is set exactly 180 degrees off???  Meaning I've set it igniting on the wrong stroke TDC?  Is this a common issue?

 

I had a moment last night while I was lying in bed that this was the issue.  My wife was mad at me that I wouldn't go to sleep but it was driving me crazy thinking about it. 

 

Also, there are timing marks on my flywheel that say "Spark Full Advance" but I think I assembled the flywheel 180 degrees off too.  I think you're supposed to be using this as alignment on the compression stroke.  I feel really stupid...

 

 

You can work backwards to check if the flywheel is correctly positioned.

 

What only matters for ignition timing is the distributor's relationship to the pistons & valves. If the cam timing is correct then you need to check if the distributor, and/or, firing order of the spark plug wires are correct.   After that see if the rotor is pointing at the number one spark plug wire when the number one cylinder is on TDC. Then you can check to see if the flywheel marks are where they should be.

 

If you can see the movement of the number one cylinder intake valve, watch it as the engine is turned over by hand. Might be easier with the plugs out.  Or put your finger over the number one cylinder spark plug hole and feel for the pressure build up of the compression stroke. As soon as it stops making pressure, stop turning the crank and see if the rotor is pointing to number one plug wire. 

 

On any four stroke engine, half a turn of the crankshaft after the intake closes is TDC at the end of the compression stroke. The distributor rotor should be pointing at the number one cylinder spark plug wire's contact inside the distributor cap and the points are just opening and thus causing a spark.  That should be close enough timing to get it running. Then you can fine tune it  from there after it's running and warmed up.

 

 

If  your certain the flywheel  is in the wrong position, and you don't want to remove it,  you can make new timing marks if you can get access to the piston through the spark plug hole.

 

The way to establish true TDC on number one cylinder is to use a piston stop.  Some are a metal bar, bolted across the block, with a bolt that extends down to touch the top of the piston. Some can be used with the head on by using an old spark plug with the insulator knocked out and a large bolt threaded in it's place.

 

Basically you want a way of stopping the piston most of the way up it's travel, but before it reaches the top.   The stop is inserted. Then very carefully by hand you turn the crank shaft until  the piston  top meets the stop.  Don't turn the crank fast or with a lot of force or it'll put stress on the connecting rod when it meets the stop.

 

When the piston is up against the stop, make a timing mark with  a Sharpie pen on masking tape on the flywheel. Then rotate the crankshaft backwards until the piston meets the stop again. Make another mark. Exactly half way between those two marks is the true TDC of that cylinder.  Now you can mark that TDC permanently. Then you can measure off the timing advance mark if you know the number of degrees advance, then divide the diameter of the flywheel by 360 degrees and make another mark at the distance in the flywheel that gives you that advance.  Then you can use a timing light whenever you need to check advance.  

 

Paul

Edited November 21, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[GrahamPaige29]

7 minutes ago, PFitz said:

 

 

You can work backwards to check if the flywheel is correctly positioned.

 

What only matters for ignition timing is the distributor's relationship to the pistons & valves. If the cam timing is correct then you need to check if the distributor, and/or, firing order of the spark plug wires are correct.   After that see if the rotor is pointing at the number one spark plug wire when the number one cylinder is on TDC. Then you can check to see if the flywheel marks are where they should be.

 

If you can see the movement of the number one cylinder intake valve, watch it as the engine is turned over by hand. Might be easier with the plugs out.  Or put your finger over the number one cylinder spark plug hole and feel for the pressure build up of the compression stroke. As soon as it stops making pressure, stop turning the crank and see if the rotor is pointing to number one plug wire. 

 

On any four stroke engine, half a turn of the crankshaft after the intake closes is TDC at the end of the compression stroke. The distributor rotor should be pointing at the number one cylinder spark plug wire's contact inside the distributor cap and the points are just opening and thus causing a spark.  That should be close enough timing to get it running. Then you can fine tune it  from there after it's running and warmed up.

 

 

If  your certain the flywheel  is in the wrong position, and you don't want to remove it,  you can make new timing marks if you can get access to the piston through the spark plug hole.

 

The way to establish true TDC on number one cylinder is to use a piston stop.  Some are a metal bar, bolted across the block, with a bolt that extends down to touch the top of the piston. Some can be used with the head on by using an old spark plug with the insulator knocked out and a large bolt threaded in it's place.

 

Basically you want a way of stopping the piston most of the way up it's travel, but before it reaches the top.   The stop is inserted. Then very carefully by hand you turn the crank shaft until  the piston  top meets the stop.  Don't turn the crank fast or with a lot of force or it'll put stress on the connecting rod when it meets the stop.

 

When the piston is up against the stop, make a timing mark with  a Sharpie pen on masking tape on the flywheel. Then rotate the crankshaft backwards until the piston meets the stop again. Make another mark. Exactly half way between those two marks is the true TDC of that cylinder.  Now you can mark that TDC permanently. Then you can measure off the timing advance mark if you know the number of degrees advance, then divide the diameter of the flywheel by 360 degrees and make another mark at the distance in the flywheel that gives you that advance.  Then you can use a timing light whenever you need to check advance.  

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul.  I will look at it again on the weekend.  I think what happened was because I established TDC from a diagram in my owners' manual by the setup of the timing chain and marks on it, I wrongfully assumed that this is where the spark should be firing.  But that is the exhaust stroke.  It's the other TDC or compression stroke that is where it fires.  I also assembled the flywheel back onto the motor at exhaust TDC.  I assume this is why the "Spark Full Advance" hash mark is off as well.  I'm actually quite relieved because I thought it might be carb problems but all the guys including Carb King were right when they said it's more likely a timing issue.  He said that carb problems rarely account for a car not starting unless they are serious.  I should be able to establish compression TDC by feeling the air rushing out and then re-orient the cables accordingly.  With a Graham Paige, there is an off-center joint on the distributor shaft that prevents it from being incorrectly assembled.  But that's doesn't mean your rotor is pointed at the right point or cable at the right moment.  You have to orient them correctly including the right order.

 

Sigh.  This project certainly has it's moments of extreme frustration but I geuss that'll make it all the better when it's going...

 

Thanks again.

[Graham Man]

Geoff,

    You are correct on the alignment of the distributer....but if you pull the cam, all bets are off.  You need to rotate the distributer 60 degrees before you insert the cam.  What I am trying to say is on most of these cars the distributer is not installed correctly.

 

Steps to check...

1. take off the distributer cap

2. rotate the crank to TDC #1 (note the distributer is moving, just to make sure all is connected)

3. find #1 spark plug wire (front of engine) follow the wire back to the distributer.

4. The rotor should be pointing to the correct #1 wire...if not rotate the wires clockwise till they line up with #1

 

Hope that helps....

[GrahamPaige29]

47 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

Geoff,

    You are correct on the alignment of the distributer....but if you pull the cam, all bets are off.  You need to rotate the distributer 60 degrees before you insert the cam.  What I am trying to say is on most of these cars the distributer is not installed correctly.

 

Steps to check...

1. take off the distributer cap

2. rotate the crank to TDC #1 (note the distributer is moving, just to make sure all is connected)

3. find #1 spark plug wire (front of engine) follow the wire back to the distributer.

4. The rotor should be pointing to the correct #1 wire...if not rotate the wires clockwise till they line up with #1

 

Hope that helps....

 

Thanks.  I'm going to double check it all on the weekend. 

 

Marks lined up right on the cam/crank according to diagram for timing chain alignment.  This is TDC exhaust.  Intake valve should be just ready to open.  Exhaust should closing at 10 degrees.

Rotate engine to TDC compression.  Both valves should be closed (and remain closed).

Re-orient flywheel to reveal hashmark "Spark Pug Advance" position. (It's 180 off right now) easy to do.

Check distributor with spark all the way advanced and make sure points have just opened.

Make sure rotor is pointing directly at #1 contact.

Ensure all remaining cables are in the right order clockwise...1-5-3-6-2-4.

Start praying...

 

[Graham Man]

The thing about the cam is you align the distributer then push in the cam, because of the bevel cut gears between the two, the distributor rotates as you push in the cam, normally unnoticed.  The only way to get it correct is back up the distributor drive before you push in the cam and check the location...this step is normally overlooked,   because you can always move the wires around to get it to run.   I figured this out looking at original engine pictures and cold not figure out why the wires on my Graham were wrong.   A friend of mine who has been a mechanic for 70 years said all the Dodges of the area are  same way as Graham always one position off on the distributer.

[GrahamPaige29]

13 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

The thing about the cam is you align the distributer then push in the cam, because of the bevel cut gears between the two, the distributor rotates as you push in the cam, normally unnoticed.  The only way to get it correct is back up the distributor drive before you push in the cam and check the location...this step is normally overlooked,   because you can always move the wires around to get it to run.   I figured this out looking at original engine pictures and cold not figure out why the wires on my Graham were wrong.   A friend of mine who has been a mechanic for 70 years said all the Dodges of the area are  same way as Graham always one position off on the distributer.

 

  Ahh ok.  I get it.  Will check that for sure.  Thanks!!

 

[GrahamPaige29]

37 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

The thing about the cam is you align the distributer then push in the cam, because of the bevel cut gears between the two, the distributor rotates as you push in the cam, normally unnoticed.  The only way to get it correct is back up the distributor drive before you push in the cam and check the location...this step is normally overlooked,   because you can always move the wires around to get it to run.   I figured this out looking at original engine pictures and cold not figure out why the wires on my Graham were wrong.   A friend of mine who has been a mechanic for 70 years said all the Dodges of the area are  same way as Graham always one position off on the distributer.

 

Can you let me know which wire is supposed to be nearest cylinder 1 when it's properly installed?

[Graham Man]

If you have a owners manual there is a page that shows the lubrication points on a bare chassis, you should be able to see the spark plug wires on it.  There should also be a wiring diagram but that will not be as clear.  I will try to get a picture of my 6 tonight.

[GrahamPaige29]

6 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

If you have a owners manual there is a page that shows the lubrication points on a bare chassis, you should be able to see the spark plug wires on it.  There should also be a wiring diagram but that will not be as clear.  I will try to get a picture of my 6 tonight.

Ok thanks!

[JACK M]

Not mentioned here is that for every rotation of the camshaft the crank shaft makes two revolutions.

Look at your timing  marks as mentioned on your assembly and rotate the crankshaft one revolution.

Then align the plug wires.

Most crankshafts cannot be installed incorrectly, There will usually be one bolt that wont line up if its clocked wrong.

It certainly sounds to me that your ignition is indeed 180 degrees out. Its a 50-50 deal.

[JACK M]

I might also add that the distributor follows the cam shaft, not the crank shaft.

[GrahamPaige29]

24 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

If you have a owners manual there is a page that shows the lubrication points on a bare chassis, you should be able to see the spark plug wires on it.  There should also be a wiring diagram but that will not be as clear.  I will try to get a picture of my 6 tonight.

 

Hey Paul.  I looked carefully at my wiring diagram.  Can I assume that the distributor should line up exactly this way?

[GrahamPaige29]

I mean with the orientation of the points that 4 and 1 are facing forward?

[PFitz]

If you can match the drawing, then it will look like the drawing, but in a sense, it doesn't have to because you have a choice of 6 positions, unless there's something on the distributor like a tackometer drive or Electro-lock that it has to point the same way each time.  Yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but as I said, all you need is to have the rotor send a spark to the number one plug when that cylinder is on TDC of compression stroke (both valves closed).

 

What's important that that drawing does tell you is the rotor rotation (clockwise) and the firing order ( 1,5,3, 6 2,4 ). Knowing those two things, you can put the wires in the cap in the correct order no matter which of the six possible positions the distributor can be installed in when the rotor is pointed at a cap contact as the points are opening.

 

So, as Graham Man is pointing out, you need to get the distributer drive gear to mesh exactly in one of those six positions (and not in between). Then see which one  the rotor points to in the cap and that becomes the number one cylinder. 

 

Confused even more, now ?

 

OK, lets say your looking down on the distributor (bird's eye view), the cap is off, and the rotor is pointing to your 12:00 position. And lets say that you've determined that the number one cylinder is on TDC and both it's valves are closed, and the points have just opened. Then just put the number one cylinder spark plug wire into the distributer cap's wire tower that will align with that 12:00 position when the cap is  placed on the distributor. Then moving clockwise in the direction of rotor rotation, put the number  5 wire in the next cap wire tower, then the number 3, etc..

 

If the rotor is pointed in between cap contacts when the points open, as Graham Man is saying, you need to lift it up enough to un-mesh the drive gear then without turning the distributor housing turn the rotor and drive gear slightly so that it drops back down and around to align with the cap contact.  Not uncommon that it takes a few tries to get the teeth in the right mesh so that the points open as the rotor just comes into alignment with a cap contact.

 

Paul

Edited November 21, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[GrahamPaige29]

2 minutes ago, PFitz said:

If you can match the drawing, then it will look like the drawing, but in a sense, it doesn't have to because you have a choice of 6 positions.  Yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but as I said, all you need is to have the rotor send a spark to the number one plug when that cylinder is on TDC of compression stroke (both valves closed).

 

What's important that that drawing does tell you is the rotor rotation (clockwise) and the firing order ( 1,5,3, 6 2,4 ). Knowing those two things, you can put the wires in the cap in the correct order no matter which of the six possible positions the distributor can be installed in when the rotor is pointed at a cap contact as the points are opening.

 

So, as Graham Man is pointing out, you need to get the distributer drive gear to mesh exactly in one of those six positions (and not in between). Then see which one  the rotor points to in the cap and that becomes the number one cylinder. 

 

Confused even more, now ?

 

OK, lets say your looking down on the distributor (bird's eye view), the cap is off, and the rotor is pointing to your 12:00 position. And lets say that you've determined that the number one cylinder is on TDC and both it's valves are closed, and the points have just opened. Then just put the number one cylinder spark plug wire into the distributer cap's wire tower that will align with that 12:00 position when the cap is  placed on the distributor. Then moving clockwise in the direction of rotor rotation, put the number  5 wire in the next cap wire tower, then the number 3, etc..

 

If the rotor is pointed in between cap contacts when the points open, as Graham Man is saying, you need to lift it up enough to un-mesh the drive gear then without turning the distributor housing turn the rotor and drive gear slightly so that it drops back down and around to align with the cap contact.  Not uncommon that it takes a few tries to get the teeth in the right mesh so that the points open as the rotor just comes into alignment with a cap contact.

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul.  I'm excited and a little nervous to try to start again.  I have to go out of town for a couple of days but I should be able to try again on the weekend.  Thanks to you guys for the guidance.

[Graham Man]

This sight always amazes me, the amount of group knowledge available is astounding.  You will get this behind you, soon you will be researching how to install a roof.

 

[GrahamPaige29]

16 hours ago, Graham Man said:

This sight always amazes me, the amount of group knowledge available is astounding.  You will get this behind you, soon you will be researching how to install a roof.

 

 

Yeah it's a real lifesaver.  I couldn't do it without you guys.  I will be so relieved when I get then engine running.  Then I'll finish the brakes and steering and take it for a boot around the block.  Next, on to the body again...

[PFitz]

Ya know that all this advice isn't free......  you owe us pictures when you get it running !

 

Paul

[GrahamPaige29]

10 minutes ago, PFitz said:

Ya know that all this advice isn't free......  you owe us pictures when you get it running !

 

Paul

 

Roger that!  I'll make a video!

[PFitz]

23 hours ago, GrahamPaige29 said:

 

Roger that!  I'll make a video!

 Looking forward to seeing it !!!

 

Have a wonderful Thanks Giving.

 

Paul

[GrahamPaige29]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:07 AM, PFitz said:

 Looking forward to seeing it !!!

 

Have a wonderful Thanks Giving.

 

Paul

Thanks Paul.  Have a good American Thanksgiving.  Canadian Thanksgiving was way back in October!  We have it earlier because of the shorter growing season.

[GrahamPaige29]

Hi guys.  Success!  The beast finally started yesterday.  I checked the timing and it seemed all right.  I checked over the carb and decided to disable the "power jet" which was allowing gas to be sucked by vacuum directly into the manifold.  Yikes.  I figured out that without the correct check valve installed, this can happen.  I also bypassed the fuel pump to make sure it  wasn't an issue and gravity fed the gas.

 

It sounds rough as heck but here's video of it starting the second time.  I didn't get the first startup as I wasn't expecting it to happen.

 

 

[Graham Man]

CONGRADULATIONS!

       Sounds pretty good, I have to get my 1930 Graham fired up, same engine, it has been sitting 50 years.....

[GrahamPaige29]

1 hour ago, Graham Man said:

CONGRADULATIONS!

       Sounds pretty good, I have to get my 1930 Graham fired up, same engine, it has been sitting 50 years.....

 

Thanks!  I just ordered an olde fashioned muffler.  Hope to get it on soon so I can hear that nice sound.  Now onto the rest...

[Graham Man]

The Graham-Paige mufflers all were pretty much the same about 4 inches round and real long 40 inches or so.  If you look in your owners manual again at the lubrication points picture you can see what the original muffler looked like.  I have a couple OEM style replacements units still in the box.....need to get those installed.

[JACK M]

You probably already know this, but 15 or 20 seconds at a time, then let it cool all the way down.

You don't want it to get to warm with no cooling hooked up.

I would go for the cooling system before a muffler.

Sounds pretty good to me.