neil morse Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 A Good Day I will let the pictures tell the story. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) What a classic study in the proper way to use a torque wrench. 🙄 Note the set of the tongue, the position of the head to avoid parallax error and then looking over the glasses to read the value.🤔 This actually went rather well. I did have some issues with driving in the core (freeze) plugs. As I couldn't get a good swing on the hammer. While I was using a small sledge hammer a heavier one would have been preferred. I feared the installation of the head gasket as there are no locating pins and the head weighs as much as my modern car. But with the balancer and Neil's fine control on the hydraulic ram this was a non-issue. The push rod cover gave us some concern as it looks like the gasket was for an engine that used a cover that was 0.75" longer. (There was still cork on the cover's seal bead) If we don't get a seal this should be easy enough to replace. Now this is officially a car project as I got a blood blister smashing the thumb with the sledge hammer and Neil got bit by the radiator.😱 Edited March 19, 2022 by Konrad (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 As my dad told me a long time ago, "if you didn't bleed on it. you didnt do a good job" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 We must have had the same loving parents!😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 A few more photos. Konrad about to hit his thumb. I don't know much about gasket sealer, but I know how to pick the one with the best label! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 hours ago, neil morse said: A few more photos. Konrad about to hit his thumb. I don't know much about gasket sealer, but I know how to pick the one with the best label! Is that from 1941 too?😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said: Is that from 1941 too?😄 That's certainly what I figured! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, neil morse said: That's certainly what I figured! Betty's older sister? Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) While I've always liked legs, I never like the way ads like this portray us gear heads as guys that don't know what to do around a beautiful woman. Who in their right mind would high tail it away in a cloud of dust and smoke? Chivalry is dead! Edited March 20, 2022 by Konrad (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 Sunday Break Yesterday was the 19th annual "Plaid Tour," a memorial benefit event in honor of Marshall Matthews, a great member of the Bay Area old car community who died from ALS. Here are some photos. My car obviously wasn't running, but I attended in a modern car and joined in the fun. A 1914 Harley Davidson that got a lot of attention. A very nice '49 Ford convertible. A spectacular 1914 Stutz Bearcat, in a very imposing black on black color scheme. George's @Grimy majestic '34 Pierce Silver Arrow, always a treat to see. And this '34 Morgan three-wheeler, that I found very intriguing. Note the moment in the second video when the Morgan crosses paths with a modern three-wheeler -- not arranged in advance, just serendipity! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 Another Good Day This morning, with the help of my friend Tom, I put everything back together on my Buick and hit the starter. She's alive! As I was warned to expect by Konrad, the engine ran rough, but the point as far as I was concerned was that it ran. So I'm a happy camper knowing that all systems are functioning and it's just a matter of adjustment from here on out. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 Progress continues. Today I was able to find TDC on my engine and find the timing mark on the flywheel, which I thought was pretty good for someone who didn't even know what "TDC" stood for until a few days ago! 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 More good news. I spent some time trying to get things sorted out yesterday, and it was clear that the engine was not hitting on all eight cylinders. I called Don, and he thought that one or more valves were too tight and not closing. I took the plugs out and the valve cover off, and used a nifty "remote starter switch" that I borrowed from Don to spin the crank to allow me to again check the valve adjustment. (Konrad and I had set them at .016 cold after we had put the head back on.) Well, I guess actually running the engine tends to rearrange things a bit because, as Don suggested, several of the exhaust valves were too tight -- 2, 3, and 8 to be exact. I readjusted them, but did not have time to run the engine after I was done yesterday. This morning I put things back together and tried it again. Big difference! It's now hitting on all cylinders, idling well, and the valves actually sound pretty quiet. Konrad is coming over on Monday so we can do a hot adjustment of the valves and also reset the timing (since we ended up pulling the distributor out to get the push rod galley cover back on more easily). But I was confident enough to actually take it for a spin, and it performed pretty much as before. One added benefit (at least based on today's drive) is that it seems to be running slightly cooler. It had been running at about 190. Today the gauge stayed right at 180 during a twenty minute ride. (I have a 180 degree thermostat in it.) I'm hoping this is due to the amount of crud I was able to clear out of the water jacket. In addition to what I pulled out with the magnet, here's a pic of what I found in the drain pan under the car after I was finished with my flushing operation. I took the precaution of installing one of Grimy's suggested stocking filters in the upper radiator hose, so I will be checking in a few days to see what else may have been stirred up. Progress continues -- stay tuned! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valk Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Great progress, Neil. Would you be so kind as to outline the valve adjustment procedure you used when hot? Did you do it with the engine running or off? I’ve read doing it with the engine running is best, but you need to be an octopus to pull it off. Alternative is to thoroughly warm it up, shut it down and adjust fast enough before the valves cool and contract. Thanks Neil, as always, you’re a big help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 Hi Peter: Thanks. I will post a full report on the hot adjustment after we do it on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary W Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Here'a a brief preview. Remember, John is 90 years old doing this AND the engine is completely exposed.... No fenders to reach over! Adjusting to .015 Hot: There are tools to help with the procedure. https://forums.aaca.org/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=860334 Or this link to page 6: Edited March 25, 2022 by Gary W (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valk Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Thanks Gary. I’ve seen that video before and remember thinking then what a difficult task it was. Those 2 don’t exactly exude calm, or instill any confidence in me! Then again, that’s the way it was done back then by all dealers and proper mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 0.016" cold is too tight. They are supposed to be set to 0.015" when fully hot. I set mine cold (engine off) to 0.018" because I suspected mine were too tight when I received it. It's much easier to get accurate settings with the engine off. As I said, I used 0.018" as the 'GO' and 0.019" as 'NO GO'. I'm still driving the car with that setting and it isn't as loud as I had anticipated. Having driven about 200 miles since I set them, I'm going to re-check the cold setting since I had a valve cover leak and now have the valve cover off. The plan is to reset them hot (to 0.015") in another couple hundred miles. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 Thanks for posting that video, Gary. I'm looking forward to an interesting morning on Monday! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 Retorquing Question I went for another drive today -- just running errands around the neighborhood -- and I have to say I'm very pleased with my Super. Even without the final adjustments, it sounds and runs just like it did before. It starts as dependably as ever, and the idle is fine, no stalling at stop signs (which are pretty much at the end of every block in San Francisco). And the ten degree temperature decrease seems to be the real deal -- on a warmer day with a lot of idling in traffic, the needle just sat at 180 today. I have heard conflicting things about whether the head bolts need to be retorqued with "modern" gasket materials, and I wondered whether anyone has had experience with the particular brand of gasket I used. I have heard that gaskets that use plastics as a substitute for asbestos need to be retorqued as many as three or four times, which sounds unpleasant to say the least. The gasket set I got from Cars, Inc. in New Jersey is produced by a company called "Best Gasket," and they call the type of head gasket they supply "GraphTite." I don't know what it's made of, but on their website they say "always re-torque, no short cuts." Here's a photo of the gasket: And this is from the manufacturers website: https://bestgasket.com/about-our-products/ Next (related) question: Is it possible to retorque the head bolts on my engine without removing the rocker shaft? It sure looks like it isn't, but I found a thread here on the forum that talked about using a "crowfoot" socket to get to the bolts under the shaft. Has anyone had success doing this? Having to remove the rocker shaft for three or four retorquings sounds pretty bleak! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Re-torquing the head gasket isn't a bad idea. I think you'll find that they will take another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. Put 100 miles on it, then re-torque them and that should be good. If you can find crowfoot wrenches that's a better bet than removing the rocker assembly again. There's no need for that. Torque a few that are easy to reach, see roughly how far they turn to reach the proper torque spec, then use the crowfoot wrenches to turn the remaining bolts about that much (since crowfoot wrenches won't give an accurate torque reading anyway). I envy that you've had all these big projects and the car has always been better for it. That must be very satisfying! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 Thank you, Matt. That sounds like good advice. And yes, I'm feeling quite satisfied for the moment! But you never know what's waiting around the next corner. (And, obviously, I could never have even embarked on these "big" projects without the help of my great friends who have given me excellent advice and hands-on assistance at every turn.) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 @neil morse if the vendor says no shortcuts on re torquing, then it sounds like removing the rocker arm is the price you'll have to pay for having such a fine automobile. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 I think Matt is right. That is what I would do, although I have never re torqued. Ignorance is bliss?? Ben 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 27, 2022 Author Share Posted March 27, 2022 Great colorized photo from the latest AACA magazine that arrived today. That's my car on top! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den41Buick Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Looks like a model 41 on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 27, 2022 Author Share Posted March 27, 2022 You have a sharp eye and I believe you are correct. But at least it's the right color! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) Neil, I was surprised to learn that you actually started the engine. We hadn't actually adjusted the valves as the radiator was eating you up pretty badly. I think we turned over the engine maybe once. (I wasn't aware we had a remote starter switch at our disposal). I tighten the adjusters as you had fully disassembled the rocker assembly for cleaning. I did not want loose push rods jumping off the rockers on start up. There is a lot of misunderstanding as to what the valve lash does. It is there to make sure the valve is seated taking up any production tolerances with the cam grind. You will not notice any performance differences even if too tight say 0.010" or even being too loose 0.020" will only add noise and accelerated wear. But as too performance you would need a very accurate dyno to see any changes to the torque curve. OEM s call out tappet clearances at engine operating temps as that is the condition the engine operates in. In some engine the different expansion rates between the exhaust and intake valve stem has been taken into effect for cold clearances. Do not try to adjust solid tappet engine with the engine running! Some hydraulic engine can be adjusted while running, but not this one. I'm so happy Don isolated your running issue. I feared we would have to free a stuck float. A valve lash adjustment was a simple fix. On the subject of carburation I noticed that the valves in the head were running cold (rich). With modern fuels are you guys able to drop down a size in the jet size or lower the float level (lower head pressure against the jet)? I don't like to lower float levels for all the dynamic "tractability" issue that can cause. Neil did you take a photo of the combustion chamber? Edited March 28, 2022 by Konrad (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) On 3/26/2022 at 4:41 PM, Matt Harwood said: Re-torquing the head gasket isn't a bad idea. I think you'll find that they will take another 1/4 or 1/2 turn. Put 100 miles on it, then re-torque them and that should be good. If you can find crowfoot wrenches that's a better bet than removing the rocker assembly again. There's no need for that. Torque a few that are easy to reach, see roughly how far they turn to reach the proper torque spec, then use the crowfoot wrenches to turn the remaining bolts about that much (since crowfoot wrenches won't give an accurate torque reading anyway). I envy that you've had all these big projects and the car has always been better for it. That must be very satisfying! How does a crowsfoot effect the precision? Any extension that changes the torque beam length needs to be taken into account. With small extensions like a crowsfoot should be placed at 90° to the beam. The resulting error from the hypotenuse is well within the tolerance band given in the manuals. Neil please don't use the calibrated elbow method. Edited March 28, 2022 by Konrad Add calibrated elbow method (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Konrad said: Neil did you take a photo of the combustion chamber? Yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Konrad said: Neil please don't use the calibrated elbow method. Not much danger of that since I have no idea what that even means. I promise not to touch the car until we get together tomorrow morning! 😄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Thanks for the photo. I have little or no experience with these low compression non super charged engines. But I was expecting the combustion chambers to be much lighter and the valves showing a tan color. As the soot is light and not oily and the engine doesn't burn oil (no blue smoke out the tail pipe) I assume the engine is running rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 Two Steps Forward, One Step Back We were having a fine morning until we made a very careless mistake. We decided to go ahead and remove the rocker shaft to retorque the head, which went fine. We put the rocker shaft back on, and started the engine to heat it up so we could readjust the valves. It immediately backfired through the carb -- odd because it had been running very smoothly, as I said. We figured that the valves had been affected by the retorquing, so we took the valve cover off again and started to check the valves. Oops! It was then that we discovered that we had put the rocker shaft back on without one of the adjustment screws being properly seated in the top of the push rod. When we tried to start the engine, the thin wall in the cup on the top of the pushrod broke. Fortunately, with a magnet, we were able to fish the broken piece out from where it had fallen down into the valve lifter. But obviously the project has ground to a halt until we can get another pushrod. Don is pretty sure he has a spare pushrod, but I will not be able to get back to this for a few weeks because of some family travel plans. What a hobby, right? I had just commented above about how satisfied I was feeling, but "you never know what's waiting around the next corner." Well, this was what was waiting for me. (In the category of "it could have been worse," I will note that the pushrod that was not properly seated was number 16, closest to the firewall. The manual actually says that because of the "overhang" of the firewall on the Super, this pushrod cannot be pulled out of the top of the head with the head in place. You can only remove it once the head is free and and moved slightly forward. Mercifully, on my car the engine must be slightly forward of where it normally sits because I noticed when we took the rocker shaft off the first time, this pushrod could be lifted out like all the others. If my car was configured as described in the manual, we would have had to remove the head again just to replace this pushrod!) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, neil morse said: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back We were having a fine morning until we made a very careless mistake. We decided to go ahead and remove the rocker shaft to retorque the head, which went fine. We put the rocker shaft back on, and started the engine to heat it up so we could readjust the valves. It immediately backfired through the carb -- odd because it had been running very smoothly, as I said. We figured that the valves had been affected by the retorquing, so we took the valve cover off again and started to check the valves. Oops! It was then that we discovered that we had put the rocker shaft back on without one of the adjustment screws being properly seated in the top of the push rod. When we tried to start the engine, the thin wall in the cup on the top of the pushrod broke. Fortunately, with a magnet, we were able to fish the broken piece out from where it had fallen down into the valve lifter. But obviously the project has ground to a halt until we can get another pushrod. Don is pretty sure he has a spare pushrod, but I will not be able to get back to this for a few weeks because of some family travel plans. What a hobby, right? I had just commented above about how satisfied I was feeling, but "you never know what's waiting around the next corner." Well, this was what was waiting for me. (In the category of "it could have been worse," I will note that the pushrod that was not properly seated was number 16, closest to the firewall. The manual actually says that because of the "overhang" of the firewall on the Super, this pushrod cannot be pulled out of the top of the head with the head in place. You can only remove it once the head is free and and moved slightly forward. Mercifully, on my car the engine must be slightly forward of where it normally sits because I noticed when we took the rocker shaft off the first time, this pushrod could be lifted out like all the others. If my car was configured as described in the manual, we would have had to remove the head again just to replace this pushrod!) Dang, now that's exactly the kind of thing that happens to me. Sorry it went sideways but luckily you found the problem quickly and it's easy to solve. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) Sorry to hear about the 'detour', but as Matt says, at least this one is a pretty simple fix. What I am really curious to know is how much extra twist was needed on the head bolts...? Edited March 28, 2022 by EmTee typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 Thanks for the sympathy -- I'm trying to develop a better attitude about these "detours." @EmTee, maybe Konrad will chime in here with the exact answer to your question. I wasn't paying very close attention at that point, but I believe the outside bolts needed about half to three-quarter turn and the inside ones needed about a quarter turn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 It turns out that I can "borrow" one of the pushrods from a spare engine that Don has, but I will have to get him a replacement. I will start with Dave Tacheny, but if anyone out there knows of any other possible source, please let me know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 Can anyone confirm that the pushrods on my 248 are the same length as on a 248 from a '38? I'm finding conflicting information online. Mine are 12 3/4". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 36 minutes ago, neil morse said: ...but if anyone out there knows of any other possible source, please let me know. It looks like CARS has them: http://www.oldbuickparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=35_43_44&products_id=4690 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 Excellent! Thank you so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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