BUICK RACER Posted November 1, 2017 Posted November 1, 2017 So a rare editorial was published in this month''s BUGLE, written by Larry Schramm, Pre-war guru, and I helped him with the latest acquisition last weekend, a 1908 Model F! So, what do you think about Larry's editorial, much of what has been said before but what do you really think? This is the problem with all clubs is it not? Figure it out and you are a hero for all! Here's the article: 9
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, BUICK RACER said: So a rare editorial was published in this month''s BUGLE, written by Larry Schramm, Pre-war guru, and I helped him with the latest acquisition last weekend, a 1908 Model F! So, what do you think about Larry's editorial, much of what has been said before but what do you really think? This is the problem with all clubs is it not? Figure it out and you are a hero for all! I am with Larry all the way. I actually spend so much of my time at "shows" or "meets" looking at other cars, that i do not get to talk about mine or show it off much. I offer others the opportunity driving, should they choose. Want a ride? Want a picture? Hop in. Just please respect it and supervise the kiddos. Ben 3
Centurion Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 I made a point of reading Larry's editorial earlier today. I thought it was excellent, and found myself nodding in agreement regarding most of his points. In particular, I agree with his thoughts regarding the parking layout at our National Meets; Larry advocates parking in chronological order regardless of judging class. Larry's comments regarding sharing our cars with others as a means of generating enthusiasm for the hobby was a fine challenge to all of us. 5
Terry Wiegand Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 Brian, thank you for taking the time to respond on here. As a current sitting member of the BCA Board of Directors, I have a favor to ask of you. Would you please take the time and send an email to every member of the board and tell them just what you said here? They NEED to hear these comments from the general membership out in the field so to speak. Our club has gotten so far away from the founding principles of fun, friendships, and talking about and sharing old Buicks that it is slowly killing the interest of members wanting to renew their memberships. Larry Schramm and Mark Shaw are going to run again for board seats next Spring. I urge you to vote for these two dedicated enthusiasts and ask every BCA member that you know to also vote for them. We need to get this organization back on the right track. Again, thank you for your comments. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 3
Terry Wiegand Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 I have one more thought to add about Larry's article. Pete had to put the disclaimer in at the beginning to keep certain people quiet (the gung-ho judging crowd) and state that the article did not represent the views of BCA officers or board members. I'm OK with that, HOWEVER, every word that Larry put down is EXACTLY how I feel and I could not have said things any better myself. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 4
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 And that is a shame. What are the bod and officers opinions ? If only there was a definitive way to get the views of the majority of the members. Or do the majority not care, one way or the other? While on the subject of FUN, I personally enjoy shows in park like settings. I realize this is not always possible, considering the need for hotels. But when possible? Ben 4
Booreatta Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) For the past couple of years I have made a point of not giving my opinion but this is just too important of several issues to as my wife would say JUST SHUT UP. Ok I wont. Larry Schramm raises several issues and when I was on the BOD these issues came up every year. The parking issue came to a head in South Bend in 2013. There were some down right rude members on each side. I took a stand and came away bloody. I still have the same stand although it doesn't mean anything. Simply put we all drive Buicks and some are almost worshiped and some should be left in a dirt field rusting away. Judging is very important for the new member who has never had a car judged. It is very important to that owner. For some members who have taken cars to a several meets and has had it judged year after year judging does not mean as much. I think some members just want to have their car judged so they have a better place to park. All Buicks on the show field should be displayed by Year so an owner who is trying to restore a car they can see the progress that have been made year to year. I don't think that we can compare the Ford Meet to the Buick meet. If we want to compare Ford meet to something it would need to be compared to General Motors not just one Brand. Larry made a point to allow a Buick in any condition to be included in the national meet and I have to agree 101% Simply put ITS A BUICK IT BELONGS. The point was also made that the new member award should be members that are just that members. I agree that a business that have access to a lot of names should note be eligible to win the award I like that Pete put the disclaimer also in the Bugle because there are members who like to pick flies out of a pile of S>>> make that garbage. Thanks Pete. I think the article was well written and I hope it will get members to think about some things that can be changed and some that cant. It is so very critical that we find a way to gain new members but we need to find a way to RETAIN new members. Yes members should be willing to share how the cars drive or just simply sit in one. I remember one meet I was treated like a 2nd class member when he pulled his car out of the trailer and he was not happy that his car was on a slight slope and his car did not sit totally level and there were some small rocks in the show field and he didn't want to pick the rocks out of his tires. Oh well he had it judged and then back in the trailer. No body really saw the car, but he got another award.. Just a quick head scratcher from me..Why are we paying the BOD more money. I always thought that $500.00 was a good deal. I remember how I felt when I tried to get a Scholarship to get some younger folks involved but that was not to be. I was told that the BOD would like to revisit that issue and I am still waiting. What does the BCA have for a GIVE BACK TO THE MEMBERS? The next election lets make sure we elect someone who has the clubs best interest in mind and not someone who just wants the travel money. . I can only guarantee everybody one thing I wont be running. I love sitting in the parking lot drinking beer, its much more fun I would like to challenge all members running for the BOD to respond to a set of questions that are important to the BCA. Everyone running should have their answers published in the Bugle then maybe members would have more information to make a decision. The bios that is printed in the Bugle in April each year is everybody running trying to pat them selves on the back My hat is off to Larry he made a stand. Thanks Edited November 2, 2017 by Booreatta removed the word not (see edit history) 9
old-tank Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 Larry made some good arguments and I was agreeing with most until he used the term "trailer queen" , which shows his contempt for those that restore to historical accuracy, clean and detail and choose not to drive. 2
BUICK RACER Posted November 2, 2017 Author Posted November 2, 2017 and a real "trailer queen" was the one pushed out of the trailer on to the show field with no fluids in it, didn't want to get it dirty, saw it happen at the BCA National in Georgia!
Terry Wiegand Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 Roberta, what would be the point in having something like that that could not be driven and enjoyed? I have my opinion about someone who would do that, but I cannot state it on here. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said: Roberta, what would be the point in having something like that that could not be driven and enjoyed? I have my opinion about someone who would do that, but I cannot state it on here. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas I will. Big EGO and BIG bank account. To each his own. Ben 1
Larry Schramm Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, old-tank said: Larry made some good arguments and I was agreeing with most until he used the term "trailer queen" , which shows his contempt for those that restore to historical accuracy, clean and detail and choose not to drive. I trailer my truck to many places because of it's age. Being a 1915 I trailer to many shows and tours, but I am not afraid to drive it. We have taken it to in state and out of state tours and drove it until it broke. Standard process for persons that drive their cars is drive it, break it, and fix it, repeat. Two years ago we broke a rod and this summer had a drive line problem. Living in a metropolitan area (Detroit) it is not practical to drive it in many areas. That said, we do drive it a lot. I am guessing that we drove it over 500 miles this year on tours and around town. And that is reflective of the down time getting parts made to fix the breakdowns. I can not just go to the local parts store and pick up a new part. That driving includes out to eat, shopping, to church, friends homes, and about any where else we care to go. Complain about the use of trailer queen terminology but it does not encourage new members into the hobby or club. Individuals that come to shows with that type of aura are turned off by the money chase for "the perfect vehicle" because that is an exclusive atmosphere and not an inclusive atmosphere. If you want to really bring new persons into the club we must park all vehicles by year, encourage everyone that has any BUICK in any condition to attend and put their cars on the show field including individuals that might have what we call a "rust bucket" so they can get to know others that have a similar car and can develop friendships and get help to improve their car. Some day that "rust bucket" may become a very respectable driver or more. NOT EVERY ONE has the financial means some of us have be able to spend unlimited funds on our hobby. Many persons are in different stages of their life and financial position. ie: age/job/offspring/etc.. I know because for years I rarely spent more that maybe $100.00 on my daily driver. If you want to bring new persons into the hobby and club we all must be welcoming and be willing to be teachers & mentors to the younger generation. That is why I wrote the editorial and I will stick to my comments. If we are to bring in new members then we MUST HAVE A PRODUCT THAT THE CONSUMER IS WILLING TO BUY! Last time I checked the major product that car clubs have to sell to have dues paying members is friendships, technical help, and be willing to help others. Clubs by definition are a social network experience. Here is the definition of a true trailer queen: 1 hour ago, BUICK RACER said: and a real "trailer queen" was the one pushed out of the trailer on to the show field with no fluids in it, didn't want to get it dirty, saw it happen at the BCA National in Georgia! Those of us that give rides, let persons get their pictures taken at shows, etc.. are the ones spreading goodwill to join the club. As I said in my article Einstein is attributed to defining insanity as continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result. Where will we be if we continue to do the same thing? PS: Oldtank, If you really want your view to have some credibility, then change your identifier from Oldtank to your real name and stop hiding. Edited November 2, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) 5
JohnD1956 Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) ***************************************************************************************************************************************************** WARNING: Long post follows and it reflects my own personal opinion, not that of anyone on the current Board of Directors. ***************************************************************************************************************************************************** I very much appreciate Larry’s work to address these issues. On the topic of getting folks interested in the hobby it made me step back and think about the times I have offered my sons the opportunity to drive my various Buicks. When they were in their 20’s I would not even consider it. I only had the one car, it had too many quirks, and I did not want them to crash the car and hurt anyone in the process. As far as I know they are all interested in Buicks. I took them to meets and events when I could and we incorporated the Buicks in our family activities when possible. And they have gone through their own Buicks over the years as well. Eventually each will have one of mine. However, only two sons were interested in the BCA, and with financial pressures being what they are today, both have had to sideline their memberships. I hope they will renew in the future. On the topic of national meet parking, I do not disagree with the chronological order proposal. But I challenge the thought that this will fix the membership retention issue and, further, that this club has gotten away from the basic founding principles of fun, friendships, and talking about and sharing old Buicks. As for fixing membership retention, less than 1 percent of the current members attend a National Meet. And changing the layout of cars at a National Meet is unlikely to be of concern to the vast majority of members who do not attend. And I would think that before any decision is made on an issue like this, some research would have to be done to make sure we were not just alienating a new group to satisfy another group. I would think that the members bringing the issue would have done some of that research, to start, but I don’t see it. So what basis is there for this change, other than some people’s personal preferences? Lets talk a little bit about fun. In this discussion it is implied that parking the cars in chronological order would provide fun for everyone. I do not think that is a given. To me, fun is in the eye of the beholder. Each person has their own idea of what fun means for themselves. Therefore, who can say that any particular parking arrangements would provide fun for anyone else? As much as some would like a particular arrangement it is practically guaranteed that someone else won’t like it. Off hand I can think of three classes that may not like a change like this at all. How about the Modified class? Modifieds come in all year ranges. How would they like to be stretched all over the field? What about the Reatta’s being spread out within the three years of their production? Will they find that fellowship next to the rest of the Buicks? As we all know there is usually a large Riviera presence. How will they feel split up over their 3 decades of production? All of these questions are rhetorical, as no one has done any research for the answers. By the way, parking the cars in any type of restricted order, which includes the past practices as well as by chronological order, in order to “have fun”, is just as likely to result in dissatisfaction. Some people do not like being told how they are supposed to have fun. As far as friendships and talking about old Buicks goes, for this writer, I point out that I own vehicles in a variety of years. I know some people with similar vehicles, and additional people with different years too. So chronological parking will not ensure that I will be parked with friends. Further, it’s no guarantee that the people I will be parked with will even be friendly or want to talk. Parking by class provides the exact same situation. However, I have not found it difficult to locate friends and talk about old Buicks. In fact, at Wisconsin, I found my friends sitting in the shade of the trees, and nowhere near any one of our cars. So I do not see where the location of the car on a show field really impacts these three attributes of the Meet. On the topic of reducing emphasis on judging, I think that is very problematic. Initially I cannot conceive how one would reduce emphasis on judging. You either judge or don’t. When we did not have judging in Allentown there were many complaints about the lack of it. And in the last five out of six national meets I’ve attended, as Larry says; about 1/3rd of the attendees wanted their cars judged. Perhaps to this group, having their car judged is their idea of fun? If we indicate that we will no longer focus efforts on judging then those 1/3rd may decide not to attend at all. This could have the effect of reducing the already small percentage of the membership that attends a National Meet. That could snowball into others not attending due to the perceived lack of interest. Of course I qualify all of this by stating: I do not have the research to prove this theory. But since no one has done any research, it is just as plausible as any other theory. In general, it is my observation that folks in this hobby are happiest when they are showing their car to interested spectators. Spectator’s includes other owners of cars within the same event. And parking the cars in chronological order may result in dissatisfaction if the guy next to you only wants to show you his car, while you only want to show your car. And I will point out that some people couldn’t care less for any other year car than the one they own. I fielded a call the other day from someone in the Club who told me he had no interest in anything before 1938. For these folks, and a few spectators who might be interested in the evolution of the brand, chronological parking may be a benefit. But I do not think there has been any outcry among attendees or spectators to see this. Rather it has been my experience that spectators stopping to see my car do so for personal reasons. Either they owned one or someone close to them owned one. In that case, if they only had to walk to one section of the lot to see what they wanted to see, then how will people feel if most people never walk past their car? Getting back to reasons for reduced membership renewals, I might mention that this could just be a byproduct of nature. Take a look in the mirror folks. Not one of us is getting any younger. Some folks eliminate their cars in anticipation of downsizing, others may succumb and their cars go to Estate Auctions. In either case they have little incentive to renew especially if they are in an area not served by a local Chapter. But a few more observation if you’ll allow me: I belong to this club because I appreciate all 114 years and countless models of Buicks. However, it appears to me that the latest trend has been for specialization. Look at the number of web groups which cultivate discussion on just one model, year, or feature. Even within our own club the trend of late has been for Divisions related to small niches of the vast universe of this historical marquee. If folks continue to specialize then why would they want to join a group that generalizes? This is the main question for me. What is there of value in the BCA for someone who only cares about their one car? If we could find an answer to this question then maybe we could address increasing membership. And don’t forget that the founding reason for this Club was to preserve Buicks as they were delivered from the factory. We used to focus just on cars that meet the standard of originality. But what has been the trend? Anything but original. Why would those who do not care for originality want to join the BCA? And it is obvious that they already have outlets to show their passion. Look at any of the big hot rod shows nation-wide. There are lots of them across this land. The Good Guys show in Syracuse NY draws upwards of 7,000 cars, year after year! The attendees may belong to different local Clubs but they go to these events because it is billed as a National Event, and there are a lot of cars and activities, and I suspect because it is in their backyard (so to speak). In a similar vein, many folks belong to AACA locals where there is usually a show each year. These events seem to happen all over the Country. Again, a major convenience factor for local attendees. I am sure there are some people who travel to far-away events, but I believe most of these events bring out scores of local folks who for one reason or another, cannot travel to events far away. The BCA has only one National Meet each year, and it can be anywhere. There are folks who attend no matter where it’s held, but I believe it can be documented that the area hosting the Meet experiences a resurgence in membership renewals, when people realize the event is in their back yard. Of course we also have Regional Meets, but they can be laid back affairs with no organizing principals or requirements. Some are multiple day events, while others can be a Show within a Show. Almost none of the Regionals have any formal judging. If there was formal judging at the Regional’s then chances are some of those 1/3 rd members in each area would make the trip. But without that activity they would need another reason to attend. On top of that, once a car is judged and awarded a top prize, I think the owner may lose some incentive to remain active. Look again at the AACA system. From what I understand, no one can get the top award in their first judging session. This keeps people coming back for a 2nd and 3rd time to seek those coveted top awards. Perhaps that’s a key to keeping people involved? Local Judging and stepped award system? This however, would require a major revamping of the judging and awards program, where the editorial calls for reduced emphasis on judging. Ultimately people are going to come and go in this hobby. Some only own an old car because it seemed like a cool thing to do and they happened across a good deal. I know one guy who thought his car was a Chevelle till he got it home and saw it was a Buick. He freely admits his was an opportunistic buy and he does not consider himself a true Buick Guy. How many variations of that can you find? How about the guy who buys a car cause he desires it, but a few years later he is bored, and sells to replace it with something else piquing his current interests? What value would this person find in the BCA? At this point I ask: why should we beat ourselves up because neither of these guys are interested in this Club? We are doing nothing except stressing ourselves out over this membership retention and renewal thing. People will come and go in this club, just like every other social/ fraternal organization out there. Twisting people’s arm to join the Club is an act of futility, in that they may join and abandon the club at will. And I think it creates a negative impression of the people within the Club if someone is forced to join. There has to be something of value for them to join and renew annually on a voluntary basis. And from what I’ve experienced, the National and Regional Meets have been the sort of thing that conveys that value. There for I think the most effective thing we all could do is document just what it is that keeps you renewing on an annual basis. From these thoughts it may be possible to find a common set of values that can be used to appeal to non members. Meanwhile I’d like to mention that Terry Weigand had a good thought about the need for a National Public Relations Coordinator in this club. He expressed this in a BOD meeting recently. While his thoughts were for someone to specialize in publicizing the National Meet in the area it is being held, I think it could go further. If that position also existed for purposes of coordinating BCA efforts to advertise on any and all niche group sites, then we could have a very valuable resource to market our club. This person could work on finding low cost or free advertising opportunities where they may exist, and market our club to may not know we exist. With a list of BCA values and a concentrated marketing efforts then we might see a change in new membership levels. But it will be the efforts of people working together that will solve these and other problems. Edited November 3, 2017 by JohnD1956 (see edit history) 2 2
Thriller Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) JD, I think there may be an error in your math. If I understand it correctly, there are about 7,000 BCA members. With 300-600 members at a National, I think we are in the 5-10% range rather than less than one. I didn't want to wade into this - I prefer Brian's approach. First, I'm not sure there is a big emphasis on judging. Perhaps it is a perceived emphasis to those who don't have their beautiful Buicks judged. Yes, there are more resources put toward the awards and banquet presentations, but having a Buick judged costs more on the registration so that should cover those resources. Our Reatta hasn't been judged so it typically hasn't been parked with the rest of the herd. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but it doesn't feel inclusive. If they were parked by year, the four years the Reatta was produced would have them all relatively close to each other regardless of judging class. The Modified group is probably the biggest issue. I understand them being parked separately for judging as they are judged differently and cover a wide range of years. However, parking in their own group also leads to segregation, which isn't necessarily good. I understand the BCA has had greater membership in the past. The question is what is the trend and is that trend also seen across other groups. My understanding is that the younger generation is less likely to join something like a car club. Are we just chasing our tails in a circle if we are trying to fight demographic trends? I think there is room for everyone in the club, especially if we are tolerant of those who don't want exactly the same thing from the club as we as individuals do. We are all different. Some have one Buick they enjoy that may be in "poor" condition. Others have one high dollar Buick...and they may feel they are protecting it by enclosing it in a trailer. Others enjoy their Buicks by driving them - assuming they are friendly with other humans, they can be true ambassadors of the club and hobby. Others among us have a disease of accumulating Buicks (especially when we think we need to put up yet another building) and getting to the point where they don't necessarily get enough exercise and issues don't get addressed in a timely fashion, resulting in a variation of Larry's drive, break, fix, repeat to drive, break, put it away and use another car, then hopefully someday fix, repeat, or something along those lines. Alternatively if one breaks, you can buy another (I did behave myself for a few years). There's probably more, but I'm tired and the glass of rye is empty so bed beckons. Edited November 3, 2017 by Thriller First noted typo (see edit history) 7 3
Smartin Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 I really don't care WHAT I'm parked next to at the show. It's the "who" part that matters the most. I love striking up conversations with folks I've never met at the national meet and talking about their cars. But once the judging is over, you will rarely find me at my car...unless I'm stuffing parts into the trunk from the swap meet. I'm cool with whatever people want to do with the parking situation, as long as it doesn't kill the judges. They are already giving up a good portion of their Saturday (most likely vacation time) to schlep around all of our cars and sweat bullets for people who will never be happy with the score they give your car 8 1
Mark Shaw Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 (edited) JD, to answer some of your questions, see below: Less than 10% of the membership votes or attends BCA National Meets (primarily only when it is close to were they live). If I recall correctly, the last survey indicated that the vast majority of BCA members join & renew primarily to get The Buick Bugle magazine. I don't have the numbers for how many members do not belong to a local BCA chapter, but I expect it would be less than 10-15%. Basically, these numbers indicate that 85-90% of all BCA members just read the magazine and do not participate in car activities. In my opinion, the previous parking arrangements at national meets have not been conducive to promoting interaction with the general public or with members with similar cars in different judging categories. In August of 2014, I sent emails to BCA Board members with the following analysis of the Portland meet: National Meet Analysis & Suggested Changes · Almost half of Portland BCA National Meet attendees were driven or display only; and just over 1/3 were formally judged in categories specified in the judging manual. However, all attendees were required to park in formal judging categories for all four days of the meet when judging was only done on the last day. · Therefore, considering the numbers above, it does not make sense to require all attendees who bring a Buick to a meet, to park in judging classes for the entire meet. · Part of Article I of the BCA bylaws states the purpose of the BCA is “to exchange information” and “to promote social intercourse and fellowship among its members”. · “Judging Class Parking” segregates members and their cars away from other members with cars from the same era, but in different judging classes. This minimizes the ability to compare cars, exchange information and socialize. · The former chief judge and committee chairman attempted to justify the lack of advanced parking plans for Portland by pointing out the lack of advanced information on the number of cars in each class. · I suggest the BCA National Meet Parking Policy should be changed to park all cars by era for the first 2 1/2 days of the meet. This will not only meet the intent of the BCA bylaws and simplify arrival parking, but it will also allow the parking committee to establish a standard parking plan for all cars before the meet and a separate plan for the judged cars that actually arrive at the meet. I received no response from the 2014 board that these suggestions were even discussed! Edited November 4, 2017 by Mark Shaw (see edit history) 3 1
JZRIV Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 Taking into consideration Larry's first paragraph "These are my thoughts on lack of growth in car clubs and why it is occurring" The first page details getting potential car enthusiasts hooked by allowing them to touch, sit in and ride or drive antique vehicles. Definitely a great suggestion and something we all as individuals have the ability to improve. Second page deals with activities and policies at national meets and so do many relative responses that followed but if we stop and consider the very SMALL percentage of members who attend national meets, would changing them create any measurable growth in the club? It might help attendance at the meet but that is unrelated to the opening statement. So we have two different topics. Declining membership and national meet protocol. Both worthy of discussion but perhaps better if not discussed under same umbrella of improving declining membership. The single most important benefit of membership that has a consistent year round impact on all members is the Bugle magazine and website. Critical to keep the quality a priority. Instant gratification especially by younger generations by finding info via internet or social media is here to stay. Anything that can be done to the BCA website to improve the access of tech info, specifications, production numbers, options lists, manuals, etc in the "members only" section has a lot of untapped potential. I know BCA has access to tons of info that could help members but its not easily obtained by today's standards. Curious, Does anyone know of an antique car club that is gaining members? Interestingly, the Antique Motorcycle Club of America has seen excellent continued growth for many years. And no it is not primarily because of attracting youngsters. The majority of members are in the gray hair club. Their meets are varied across the country and setup differently than many car clubs. Not sure if any of that could be applied and would work for a car club. I've noticed the relaxed social aspect of meets seem to be a primary driver for attendance. 4 1
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 I like to think I am a friend to everyone who has commented . I think I have met each at one time or another. My experience with parking has never been a problem . My car has always been in Driven. Ames, 2010, I was told to park wherever I wanted until Sat judging. Directed to a specific lot for a couple hours.. Charlotte, 2012, essentially the same. South Bend, 2013park where ever until judging time. After, "you are ok to return to the other lot", I was told. Missed 2014 Springfield, 2015. Parking was marked by years. Modified, Reattas, etc, may have had certain areas. I don't know., Parked any where until judging time. I just see a tempest in a teapot! I suspect this is not a BOD thing as much as regional or chapter thing. With folks in each that have their own ideas. Until told otherwise, I will park where convenient. If informed I can't park there, well, I will move. I am beginning to believe the "club" is becoming just like the Government. TOO DAMM POLITICAL. And I also agree with with the saying " you can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time but not all the people all the time. Probably not quote precisely. We just need to change "fool" to " please". Heck, I can't even please myself all the time! I will be in Denver. Should be easy to spot. If allowed, will have the teardrop hooked to the back of George. Park ANYTHING by me, and visit and HAVE FUN. FUN IS GOOD. Ben 8
Larry Schramm Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 10 hours ago, JZRIV said: I've noticed the relaxed social aspect of meets seem to be a primary driver for attendance. I rest my case. 3
BUICK RACER Posted November 4, 2017 Author Posted November 4, 2017 On 11/2/2017 at 7:21 PM, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: I will. Big EGO and BIG bank account. To each his own. Ben I have no idea but, Ben probably hit the nail on the head, the funny part about it as we watched this happen, it was the meet that the Buick Driving Enthusiast Division was approved by the BOD!!!! 1
Mark Shaw Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 12 hours ago, JZRIV said: Curious, Does anyone know of an antique car club that is gaining members? Interestingly, the Antique Motorcycle Club of America has seen excellent continued growth for many years. And no it is not primarily because of attracting youngsters. The majority of members are in the gray hair club. Their meets are varied across the country and setup differently than many car clubs. Not sure if any of that could be applied and would work for a car club. I've noticed the relaxed social aspect of meets seem to be a primary driver for attendance. Jason, IMO, most car clubs have focused their recruitment efforts on the wrong age groups. Today, younger people are working to make ends meet while raising families. Therefore, they have little time and disposable income to build, restore, & enjoy old cars. The 40-60 age group should be the target for recruitment as they are approaching retirement and have had time to pay off their mortgage, build a nest egg, and are expected to have time in retirement to pursue other interests. I expect that in the next several years, some single brand clubs will need to join with other clubs to sustain enough members to survive. We had an annual Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac Picnic (The BOPP) where all three car clubs participated in a potluck BBQ picnic at a local park. Each club would peer judge one of the other club's cars each year and award prizes for the top cars and the BOPP trophy for the club who showed the most cars. I think you will find that similar events with a variety of car brands will be the ones that will be gaining members. 2
NTX5467 Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 On 11/1/2017 at 8:06 PM, Terry Wiegand said: I have one more thought to add about Larry's article. Pete had to put the disclaimer in at the beginning to keep certain people quiet (the gung-ho judging crowd) and state that the article did not represent the views of BCA officers or board members. I'm OK with that, HOWEVER, every word that Larry put down is EXACTLY how I feel and I could not have said things any better myself. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Personally, Mr. Wiegand, I take offense at your second sentence. It is the Editor's job to ensure that personal opinions and comments are NOT construed or "spun" to be the thoughts/orientations of the BOD, even if they are made by a sitting BOD member. THAT is the reason for that disclaimer, as I see it, NOT to seek to silence one aspect of the membership. Willis Bell 20811 I make these comments as a free-standing BCA member and NOT to speak for any other BCA members, groups, or chapters. 1 2
MrEarl Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 43 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said: The 40-60 age group should be the target for recruitment as they are approaching retirement and have had time to pay off their mortgage, build a nest egg, and are expected to have time in retirement to pursue other interests. Probably right Mark, but I guess I must have missed that part of the instructions. 2 1 1
NTX5467 Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 What is "FUN"??? For some, it's about being a part of a show or club-related event. This is fine. For others, it's about participating at a higher level, a high enough level so they receive an award for what they've accomplished with their vehicle. Be it in appearance, mechanical accomplishments, or both. For others, it's about driving the vehicles in different environments other than Interstate highways and seeing new places as a result . . . remembering the glory of our nation in an earlier time, where things haven't changed that much over the years. Sometimes, it's just about getting the car out of town and enjoying all if has to offer to the driver and passengers. A "thirty minute drive" that keeps getting longer in time and distance. For others, it's a quick trip down a measured distance in a competition event. For others, it's about orchestrating and running these show events, whatever they might be, in the most efficient manner that will result in participants wanting to come back the next time it happens. The problem happens when the "Been there, Done that" orientation becomes operative. I used to go to weekend shows/cruises as a matter of course. That's where old and new friends tended to be. To see if they'd done anything to their cars or were thinking about doing something different. The "networking" aspect of things. "People and Networks". Sharing of information and expertise. But when things stagnate, for whatever reason, with the participants or spectators, "the plateau" is reached and things tend to be downhill from there. Like others of my advancing generation, much of "the new stuff" is with vehicles I'm not especially interested in. Most of the old stuff, I've seen before. Different generations, different orientations. And then there's the older (much more well-heeled) people who take older vehicles and put modern guts under them, who then seek to sell the removed items at costs that don't always reflect true "core" value. Those that do more well-executed upgrades to selected modern items, with the existing engine, I like more. More of a challenge than just "waving the plastic" and having others react. Some of the older components will or have been rebuilt too many times, so newer components are needed, so why not put EFI on in place of the old fuel system? Electronic ignition, well hidden, etc. Not specifically to make it a "street rod/street machine" per se, but to make it an "improved OEM" vehicle which retains all of the mechanical things which make the car what it is. Maintaining the uniqueness of the breed, so to speak, which is how things were when the cars were new or "Just a used car". And then, on top of that, I"ve got to make a decision of whether I' desire to spend an hour to get there, walk around, talk, and then spend another hour to get home. If it's tied to a chapter meeting or getting together with friends afterward for a meal or something else, THAT makes it more viable to me. The "cost of the experience", it seems, since I'm not showing any cars right now. Cost in time, cost in money. Perhaps I'm making this too much a "cost-benefit" situation? The BCA BOD should NOT be about who's friends with whom, or "Who thinks like me" . . . But about following the desires of a majority of the membership, not just a vocal group per se. BUT, if that's all that makes their wishes/desires/orientations known, so be it. NTX5467 1 1
NTX5467 Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 What is "VALUE" of the group to others in the hobby? That depends upon the particular group and members thereof. AND one thing which many people tend to overlook when selling the group to others. I've seen some BCA members, when the question of "How do we sell the BCA to potential members?" question come up at General Membership meetings at BCA National Meets, take the "You should know what our value is" orientation in their comments. Dismissive, it seems, which is NOT what the potential members might desire to hear, unfortunately. Unfortunately, we' can't always fully convey the friendliness of the membership . . . it has to be experienced. The stereotype of "Old guys and their old cars" has to be transcended, by observation. to get to the "value" part of the equation. Not something that happens in the short term, unfortunately. I've observed that you can be as welcoming and warm as you can be toward new/potential members, but they still disappear in the later weeks. Being in a car club is not one of their life priorities, unfortunately. Not everybody is so focused on the car hobby, all of the time, that they make room for it in their lives. In the Mopar club I've been a member of since it's first organizational meeting, we started with a generally younger demographic. Few "gray hairs", unless it was prematurely gray. So there were new families to be built, a lot of car enthusiasm was present, and it was our job to keep things building as time progressed. The "Our Mopar Monentum", I termed it, which was real. Some members disappeared for a few years, to return later with a wife and young kid(s), which made me smile and know we were doing good. This repeated itself many times, but the demographic has trended toward older people as things have evolved. We had an annual show, as did the other Mopar clubs in TX, so we jockied for the desired time of the year. We ended up being in April, so we'd have time to spend going to other clubs' shows and events. "Play time", of sorts. Rather than being getting things ready for our show itself. The "value" was there, on many levels. We had our meetings on Saturday evenings, so we could meet early and go to events as a group, if desired and planned. A neat deal! Or go to a miniature golf venue for more fun/competition afterward. We allowed the racers "excused absences" on those Saturday nights, but also desired to hear of their victories when the season was over. It was a fun time! Something for everybody! With the number of devoted Mopar people we had, there was a good network available for information, expertise, and mentoring. It helped to forge many friendships of members helping members. Over the past 15 years or so, the drag racers have dominated a local Muscle Car Challenge group events. Others have done shows and received trophies BOTH are in the club heritage, from the early years. The BCA has many of these attributes, but the particular value of them to potential members can be tough to communicate. To many "typical Buick owners", these things we see as "Value" don't mean much . . . unless they desire to sell a car. Depending upon the car and such, I'll advise them of the best options I know of and they appreciate that. For some younger potential members who seek a vibrant group of "instant friends", when they come to a typical chapter meeting for the first time, it's not what they typically desire, unfortunately. Some seek to see people with orientations similar to theirs, be it "stock", "maintained stock", "modified", or "drag racing". In many cases, what they seek isn't there. NOT to say that what we might offer is bad, just not their are looking for. Part of this related to the demographic of Buick owenrs in the 1950s-'60s to the buyer that Buick is seeking now. To be sure, www.RegalGS.org has been where many of these people can tend to land, by observation. Or other Yahoo Groups and such. They'll find what they want, online of not, by observation. As time progresses, the BCA itself might remain static in its membership level, as the core group might decline slightly as the growth in the Divisions might increase. Unfortunately, some of the Divisions might be at odds with the more core group of BCA members, by observation. But shouldn't we all be about the Glory of the Buick Brand rather than just particular segments thereof? NTX5467
Mark Shaw Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 2 hours ago, NTX5467 said: The BCA BOD should NOT be about who's friends with whom, or "Who thinks like me" . . . But about following the desires of a majority of the membership, not just a vocal group per se. BUT, if that's all that makes their wishes/desires/orientations known, so be it. Although I seldom agree with NTX5467 (who ever he is), I do agree with most of his statement above. However he should delete "majority" and simply state the desires of the membership. If the desires of the majority were followed, we would not be parking by judging class. 1
NTX5467 Posted November 5, 2017 Posted November 5, 2017 I respectfully stand by my original wording, Mr. Shaw. As I recall, it was a "vocal group" who desired and advocated for the current show parking arrangement, not "the membership" per se. That's my recollection. From what I saw in this forum, on that subject, there was not even a simple majority of the total BCA membership who advocated for the change. Be that as it may. Respectfully, NTX5467 1
cxgvd Posted November 5, 2017 Posted November 5, 2017 Hello all; I read the entire thread this morning and not sure what is the question, parking, recruiting members, or what? I currently own three Buicks but am not a BCA member. For me the dues are too expensive, more than the AACA and HCCA, of which I am a member. I do not believe resto-rods should be in my club. Modern components are important for safety but I think they should be not be visible. At what point does an antique car become a hot rod, which is another discussion. What is the relevance of the BCA, why not join the AACA and make it stronger. They do so many things well, judging, Hershey, tours for all different age groups, Snappers, Vintage, Glidden, regional shows and a magazine. Please I do not ask this to start a fight, just asking? Gary Van Dyken BTW, NTX5467 lists a membership number, could you look him up in a BCA Roster? 1
Thriller Posted November 5, 2017 Posted November 5, 2017 To follow up with Gary, when one doesn't live in close proximity to a chapter, it makes it more difficult to feel engaged with a club. Granted, he may not be all that far physically from Michigan or NY chapters but there is a border crossing involved. If membership is just about the Bugle, then people may do their cost-benefit analysis based solely on that and perhaps how well it covers their interests. For me, it is well over 400 miles to a chapter (I do belong to Gopher State), so I don't get to many chapter events but generally feel welcome at them and have developed some wonderful friendships. To get people to join a club, the club has to appeal to them. Since there are many varied interests, can members accurately determine what non-members want from a club by making a hypothesis? The only way may be to ask. Of course, if a member is gung ho about judging and factory correct, how well will they connect with a non-member who is into driving their car even if it means a few tweaks away from originality or is more into modified cars? The biggest thing may be for us as members to be good ambassadors for the club. What if each of us made a point of introducing one new member in the next year? That wouldn't be hard for us to do as individuals yet would have a huge impact on the BCA. 1
NTX5467 Posted November 5, 2017 Posted November 5, 2017 Cxgvd -- In its earlier years, probably until the last 20 years or so, the BCA only recognized "end of the assembly line correct" cars. Nothing else. IF the car was of a certain "younger" age, it didn't exist in the eyes of the BCA, but when the car "became of age", THEN it was welcomed into the family and could participate in National Meet judged shows AND only if it met the "correct as produced" (with some specified exceptions). As the membership trends were heading down, the idea of "Divisions" was floated and approved. The first one was the Reatta Division, as I recall. Then came the Modified Division. The Reatta Division was already a national Reatta Club. The Modified Division was more for "street rod/street machine" types of vehicles with customized bodies (which are some really beautiful creations, mostly) and specified-Buick engines. The Buick Driving Enthusiasts is an associated group of BCA members who have yearly tours in various parts of the nation. Also, the number of classes was expanded to include the Driven Class, then later Archival and Survivor vehicles. Both with specified criteria for participation. One main goal in these classes was for more people to drive their non-400 Point Judged Buicks to the meets for all to see and enjoy. In many cases, it worked. In others, the first year the Driven Class was available, we then found out that this class had its own originality criteria . . . which many were not aware of and originally specified by the BCA BOD as necessary. This caused much "discussion" by the rejected potential participants! I feel that we all respect the AACA for what it is and has accomplished, but at the first BCA National Meet our North Texas Chapter hosted, the main points of "discussion" included radial tires and halogen headlights, two items the AACA allegedly allowed in their highest-level judging with little or no penalty. The then-BCA Office Manager made a statement that seemed fitting and appropriate. (Paraphrased) "The BCA is the national club for Buick automobiles. It should have the most correct vehicles being judged, as a result". Certainly to not dismiss the AACA and other multi-marque groups, but the BCA has more of a specialized focus on Buicks. The BCA should have the highest standards of correctness on their high-level 400 Point Show Field. Certainly, there is merit to that orientation, as I see it. During those earlier discussions on radial tires and halogen headlights, one perceived reason for the BCA allowing them with no penalty in the 400 Point judging was that "The AACA allows these things . . ." In the grand scheme of things, those two items together might not knock a car from getting a Gold award by themselves, but everything else has to be perfect with no deductions in other areas. But with a few other indiscretions, the car would receive the next-lower Silver award with the radial tires and halogen headlights. In those earlier times, there were many threads in these AACA-hosted forums about the increased safety of radial tires and halogen headlights, so if we are supposed to drive and enjoy the older cars, then we should be allowed to have them in the high-level judged shows. But, if the Gold award is desired, the vehicle needs to meet the "End of the assembly line criteria", period. Repro bias ply tires are available. Repro headlights are also available. EACH with several variations and model year-correct issues(T-3 lights). Yet the 400 Point judging is not a concours-type event. Yet many vehicles can end up being over-restored, which is not supposed to affect how the car is judged. The BCA Judging Manual specified which equipment is allowed in which model year and class of judged vehicle. So, the "rules of the game" are in print for all potential participants to know about. One thing I've noticed about car enthusiast groups . . . they shouldn't try to specifically be like another group. Some of the same orientations might cross-over, some of the same cars can compete in the different clubs' shows and events, but not all of them. The people in each club are unique to that club, although they can have some general areas of agreement. In some cases, leniency of what's on the vehicle happens, in other cases, less so. By my observation, it's good to see what the other clubs are doing and why, but directly copying them is not the best thing to do. Adopting some can work, if they support the general orientation of the group. EACH group's members need to find the best fit for them and their orientations/desires . . . which can be a moveable target. Still, what works for one group might not work for another group, and vice versa. Trying things to see IF they'll work is the only way to find out. Failures should be minimized and strengths should be celebrated, just as with any group/business/entity that desires to be the best it can be. In that orientation, the BCA, AACA, and others are "successes", in general. Within the BCA, many specialty groups have banded together BCA members with specific model year/vehicle interests. This is good on many levels. An expansion of the "division" orientation. Unfortunately, the demographics of some of these groups can be different than those of other divisions. All part of the bigger BCA family, but specific in their orientations, by observation. This can cause some friction, by observations. No different from other aspects of our lives, by observation. In the area of sampling populations, using small samples of a particular population to predict the desires/behavior of the total population, the smallness of the needed sample groups can be surprising. The numbers support this situation, but when it comes down to what individuals (or a majority thereof), to me, there needs to be a much larger sample population for more accurate predictions. Which gets back to the dispute about my earlier statement. It also gets back to things like national voter participation. IF you have the opportunity to vote, and don't, then you let others make your decisions for you. In some cases, this seems to be the path of least resistance, but it can also result in "You get what you got". IF you did vote, then you know YOU participated in the process of "Majority Rule". We all know that having more people involved in the process is best, but some might have other priorities to let others make their decisions for them, by default. In my advancing age, it increasingly seems that being an activist for particular orientations can become more trouble than it's worth. Not that I don't still hold many orientations and desires of how things need to be for the best optimal outcomes, BUT it seems that others are going to do what they seek to do, no matter what. "Going with the flow" is the past of least resistance can result from changing priorities as we age and lives change. This is somewhat normal, it seems. BUT it can allow the many "new normals" to happen and much of the reason that things happened as they did is lost or deemed "bad", unfortunately. If "The Group" perceives it as "bad", it is, when in fact it is not. Just depends upon which side of the highway your looking at things from. "Comprimise" has become a bad word, unfortunately. In the automotive hobby, diversity can be the key to survival of enthusiast groups. Building a larger potential member base in the process. Each of us should work to find the particular group(s) which best fit our needs in this area. NO two groups should be exactly the same, although there can be areas of general agreement. Different people involved, different desires/orientations, by observation. Some groups can have higher degrees of execution in what they recognize/tolerate than others, which is good, too. Key thing to me is for everybody to find the group that works best for them, even if it's a division of a larger umbrella group. No matter what, ENJOY and CELEBRATE the vehicles you like. Fix, restore, and drive them as you might desire! Network with other people for the sharing of information and expertise to the benefit of all. Even if you can't fully participate at a particular time, don't give up the dream of someday doing what you desire to do in the hobby. THEN make it happen in the best way it can, for you. Above all . . . ENJOY! Thanks for your time and consideration. Willis Bell 20811 I make these statements as a free-standing member of the BCA. I do not speak for anyone else/group/chapter in the BCA. Some might share or not share my orientations, which is fine
MCHinson Posted November 5, 2017 Posted November 5, 2017 6 hours ago, NTX5467 said: I feel that we all respect the AACA for what it is and has accomplished, but at the first BCA National Meet our North Texas Chapter hosted, the main points of "discussion" included radial tires and halogen headlights, two items the AACA allegedly allowed in their highest-level judging with little or no penalty. While I have hesitated to chime in on this topic, I feel I need to correct this error. Somebody apparently lied to you about AACA judging criteria for radial tires and halogen headlights. AACA has had a lot of people complaining about how many points are deducted for those items for a long time. I have heard that for 2018, AACA is finally lowering the deduction for radial tires from 5 points each to 2 points each, but I have not yet seen that in print. Up to this time, it has been almost impossible to compete successfully in AACA judging with incorrect tires. 2
NTX5467 Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 12 hours ago, MCHinson said: While I have hesitated to chime in on this topic, I feel I need to correct this error. Somebody apparently lied to you about AACA judging criteria for radial tires and halogen headlights. AACA has had a lot of people complaining about how many points are deducted for those items for a long time. I have heard that for 2018, AACA is finally lowering the deduction for radial tires from 5 points each to 2 points each, but I have not yet seen that in print. Up to this time, it has been almost impossible to compete successfully in AACA judging with incorrect tires. Thanks for that clarification! During that earlier time, many BCA members were advocating that radials and halogen headlights should be allowed, as the AACA had (allegedly) been doing, in the name of motoring safety. That's what they said, although the BCA had definite guidelines on where radials were permissible and on what models, due to factory production availability. I didn't investigate, just took what they were saying as being valid. Apparently it was not. The BCA had allowed CB radios in vehicles at no deduction, as a safety upgrade . . . in a time well before the wide availability of personal cell phones. As I recall, the CB radio allowance was the basis of the tire/headlight upgrades. Thanks, again. NTX5467
Brian_Heil Posted November 6, 2017 Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) Ah, the question of parking. But before I get to that, a comment on membership. In my case, 20 some years ago, it was all about the invitation. A real invitation from one person to another face-to-face to go for a ride, come to an event or club meeting or tour and then the follow-up when these guests arrive and then the introductions to other members, made by you, the host. Yes, make a fuss about these guests. Use all the manners your mother taught (most of) you. I can recall clear as day Danny Manner doing this for me at the local and national BCA levels and Ted Bunnell and John Tarleton doing this for me at the VMCCA/AACA. I always think of them and how welcoming they made me feel, even without a Buick at first, when I have invited others and do the same since. I tell the new-bee, join the club first, the good cars are in the club and the club members know where the not-so-good cars and trucks are too that have been for sale forever (or every year). In the mean time, run-what-ya-brung (we all did that once upon a time too, remember?, don't look down your nose at them) or let them jump in the back seat of our car for a ride. This ride-and-smile is easier for us who choose to drive our cars, not picking on the trailer crowd, you folks will just have to work harder. I give away every Bugle after I've read it several times. 'Here, take these and read them'. Best take-away perk/gift we have. Thank you Pete Phillips. Parking. How did this come up again? LOL. As I get older and become my Dad, a story to end this post. A certain BCA'r, let's call him 'Brian' drove to a BCA National Meet in a state, oh let's just say, 'Indiana'. Parking was not much fun, with a fence to hop or walk way around to see all the cars, even though there was lots of room on the one side of the fence, so 'Brian' parked with his Buick friends on the other side of the fence. Pretty soon, 'Brian' was asked to move, and not too nicely either. Being a quick thinker and sizing up the expert, 'Brian' claimed 'vapor lock'. For the next 20 minutes, we received a very good dissertation on vapor lock, not that the Buick had it, all the while staying in our shaded lawn chairs, attentive and polite, but stationary, both driver and car. We even offered him a cold drink. Class ended and the expert moved on wondering how 'Brian' ever drove 250 miles to the show field in a car that vapor locked when only driving a quarter mile from the driven lot behind the fence to the show field. Well, it was hot out. Not too long after that, another request was made by another that 'Brian' and the Buick move, at least this guy was nicer than the first. Ready for round two, 'Brian' had the crank out from underneath the back seat. Now it was never stated the Buick would not start, and we never asked the second fellow to place the crank on the engine, he just picked it up and started cranking. And cranking, all the while telling us about the tractor he grew up with as a kid. He also never asked if the fuel petcock was 'on' but he did check the ignition lever, several times. This round only took 10 minutes of hand cranking the big six, but a nice crowd had formed and we answered lots of questions by interested onlookers about early Buicks. As the crowd grew, those now three and four deep around the Buick, were invited for rides around the show field. The crank was put away, the ignition turned on, and the fuel petcock opened and away we went with a tap of the starter pedal. Nothing like a cool breeze of an open car with the windshield cocked open on a hot day on the pavement. Expert #1 and #2 soon returned and were again thanked for their assistance but their comment was the best. 'Hey, the people really seem to like to go for rides, how long you planning to do this?' Well said 'Brian', I hate to turn it off, it may not start again, and if it vapor locks, we'll be really screwed, look at that line'. Edited November 6, 2017 by Brian_Heil (see edit history) 5 1 5
BUICK RACER Posted November 6, 2017 Author Posted November 6, 2017 46 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said: Brian always has the best stories! I knew some of this but not half of it, I can't still take the smile off my face from riding in Brian's car at the Buffalo BCA Nationals, when I think about it, then there's the rides in "The Old Guys" '40 Super! Maybe Chris will let me drive it someday, since his father said he would "teach" me but as usual life gets in the way! 2
John_S_in_Penna Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Members naturally think of national meets from their own perspective. In line with Larry's editorial, let's also think of meets from VISITORS' perspectives. After all, members are already on the membership rolls, and visitors who come, interested in seeing the Buicks, are potential members to add to the club. At one local car show, I explained a few cars to some teenage girls who happened by. I explained in terms that they would appreciate. I asked a Corvair owner to open the front "engine" compartment, and there was no engine there! And even a bench seat was novel to them, as a person could get in on either side and simply slide over! Engaging the visitors with antique-car rides and explanations is so much better than having newcomers just walk down rows of vehicles. And I recommend having the meet in a place where the PUBLIC will readily happen upon it: Not in back of a highway hotel at Exit 52A of Interstate 890, but maybe a beautiful tree-studded park in an attractive town where the public will already be. Our hobby is fun. Let's be sure to share it. Edited November 7, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 8
Bill Stoneberg Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 The problem with packing the BOD with Prewar members is that their is a chance of becoming a prewar Buick club instead of club that welcomes everyone. This happened to the Oldsmobile club and they went through rough times until the current president came in and was able to consolidate both the antique and the modern Oldsmobiles (their terminology, not mine). 3
old-tank Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said: And I recommend having the meet in a place where the PUBLIC will readily happen upon it: Not in back of a highway hotel at Exit 52A of Interstate 890, but maybe a beautiful tree-studded park in an attractive town where the public will already be. And you should find that ideal and idyllic location and recommend it to the club.... Actually everyone who recommends something should be prepared to step up and take charge rather than making work for others. 3
John_S_in_Penna Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, old-tank said: And you should find that ideal and idyllic location and recommend it to the club.... Living in Pennsylvania, I know of several around me. Other people in other areas would certainly know of good places near them. These "ideal and idyllic" places are real and practical to people who know them. Gettysburg, Hershey, Macungie, State College, and Titusville, Penna. (to name a few) have nice locations well suited to car shows. There are undoubtedly dozens more just in our state, though they tend to be removed from the concrete, congestion, and sprawl of big cities. Picture driving an antique to a show on smaller highways without city traffic. Macungie, for instance, has a successful annual AACA local show in a beautiful park that regularly sees more than 1000 antique cars. The campus of Pennsylvania College of Technology, where students can learn antique-car restoration, provided an attractive setting amid landscaped lawns and walkways for an AACA Grand National Meet. These are just examples. Let's set our sights high. Edited November 7, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) 1
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