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Ethnol ruining rubber fuel lines

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The rubber fuel lines on my two antique cars are being eaten away by the 10% ethnol in our fuel. Are there black rubber fuel lines that ethnol doesn't hurt ?  Or what would be a good additive to gas to fix my problem ? Thanks

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How old are your lines?  If more than maybe 10 years old, would be time to change them anyways, IMO.  I have not seen any problems with the fuel lines in my truck and I have an inline clear filter and have not seen any evidence of degradation.

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Any rubber tubing for gasoline that is  sold today should be alcohol resistant, but I would ask specifically.  I asked the other day and discovered that the hose he was selling me was not alcohol resistant.  He did have some that was and it was twice the price.  Price is insignificant when you are only buying a foot of hose.

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Replacing all soft parts in a "new" car is the first thing I do including carburetor and fuel pump components.

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I don't know. Everyone seems to bitch about 10% ethanol/gasoline ruining every thing from their cars to their lawn mowers and for all I know their sex life. I have six collector cars, two driver cars, two lawn mowers, two chain saws, a string trimmer, a leaf blower, a stand by generator, and an ATV. They all get whatever the local gas stations are selling. I've  had ZERO issues with any of them that I can even remotely blame on the fuel. When I press the starter or pull the cord they run. When I turn off the spark they stop. They all seem to work very well and last a long time.................Bob

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8 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

I don't know. Everyone seems to bitch about 10% ethanol/gasoline ruining every thing from their cars to their lawn mowers and for all I know their sex life. I have six collector cars, two driver cars, two lawn mowers, two chain saws, a string trimmer, a leaf blower, a stand by generator, and an ATV. They all get whatever the local gas stations are selling. I've  had ZERO issues with any of them that I can even remotely blame on the fuel. When I press the starter or pull the cord they run. When I turn off the spark they stop. They all seem to work very well and last a long time.................Bob

 

Agree.  Same experience EXCEPT when driving through Nebraska or Iowa.  When I fill up with gas there I always get about 25% lower fuel economy.

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Ethanol in Florida is pretty much standard.  It ruins everything it touches in an old car and causes vapor lock as well when the temperature gets over 80-85, which is pretty much standard here.  I can only get real gas at one place 8 miles away.  It's horrible.  The '39 Buicks can't go out on the road without a backup electric fuel pump for that reason.  I only wish I'd never moved from Virginia to Florida.

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I had to replace every rubber hose, and the fuel pump (rubber diaphragm) in my '62 Vette because of a dumb choice of gas a few years ago. Last year I had to replace the rubber hose on the gas fill pipe to the tank. Must have overlooked it.  It was totally mush and could only have been caused by the ethanol crap also. I use ethanol in the mowers, and my only complaint is that a full tank will lose 1/3 to evaporation over a weeks time. Luckily we can get non-ethanol gas at quite a few stations. Not cheap, but better than repair bills.

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26 minutes ago, caddyshack said:

I use ethanol in the mowers, and my only complaint is that a full tank will lose 1/3 to evaporation over a weeks time.

 

Interesting......... Ethanol makes up only 10% of the full tank of fuel and yet accounts for 33% of the evaporation. ............................Bob

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14 hours ago, mike6024 said:

You might consider using the high-pressure fuel injection fuel line,

 

Why? That's completely unnecessary and brings it's own set of problems (like correct clamps and fittings). As noted above, pretty much all rubber hose sold today is ethanol compatible.  Just use the correct type of hose.  No need to re-engineer the fuel system or lose any sleep over this.

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Ethanol issues are well known and documented by every engine manufacture large and small. Numbers prove it all out opinions mean nothing.  

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3 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

I only wish I'd never moved from Virginia to Florida.

Earl, I think your passport is still good for a few years.  Comonback!

Terry

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13 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

I don't know. Everyone seems to bitch about 10% ethanol/gasoline ruining every thing from their cars to their lawn mowers and for all I know their sex life. I have six collector cars, two driver cars, two lawn mowers, two chain saws, a string trimmer, a leaf blower, a stand by generator, and an ATV. They all get whatever the local gas stations are selling. I've  had ZERO issues with any of them that I can even remotely blame on the fuel. When I press the starter or pull the cord they run. When I turn off the spark they stop. They all seem to work very well and last a long time.................Bob

 

Bob is right.  We are all imagining the chemistry issues ........and don't forget the boat owners,  some of whom have been killed by the effects on their fuel tanks (sadly, some boats have composite fuel tanks instead of metal)  ( those who have been killed ...or if they are lucky..only horribly burned when the stuff ate thru their gasoline tanks.....must have been imagining that too....! )    ( I personally am lucky...my Bayliner was built with metal fuel tanks)...

Edited by SaddleRider
asparagus (see edit history)

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I have a few two stroke motorcycles some road and some dirt. my only way of getting real gasoline is to pay an outrageous price at a local airport. I also have to have a storage area at home for real gasoline. I don't ride them often enough to keep fresh ethanol fuel in them and I don't want to go over the handlebars when  a piston locks up. I see all the tree removal people are buying their gas at the airport also.

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1 hour ago, Terry Bond said:

Earl, I think your passport is still good for a few years.  Comonback!

Terry

It's too late to go back now Terry.  We have the little house in VA for sale too.

 

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54 minutes ago, SaddleRider said:

 

Bob is right.  We are all imagining the chemistry issues ........and don't forget the boat owners,  some of whom have been killed by the effects on their fuel tanks (sadly, some boats have composite fuel tanks instead of metal)  ( those who have been killed ...or if they are lucky..only horribly burned when the stuff ate thru their gasoline tanks.....must have been imagining that too....! )    ( I personally am lucky...my Bayliner was built with metal fuel tanks)...

That's foolishness.  I've had one of my '39 Buicks since 1963 and the other since 1970 and neither one of them ever one time vapor locked until I had to start using Ethanol.  I never ever had or needed to have an electric fuel pump.  The Government gave no consideration to old car people or low income people when they demanded Ethanol, because old car people are few in comparison to the population.  Low income people generally need to drive older cars, and the Government in the past has never given those people much consideration.

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Ethanol  Vapor pressure: 5.95 kPa

 

Octane (regular gasoline) Vapor pressure    1.47 kPa

 

This is the chemical property that indicates how volatile the liquid is, how easily it evaporates. So you see ethanol evaporates more than three times faster. 

 

You can note the boiling point difference too, 173 for ethanol and 257 for octane.

 

Ethanol
Chemical compound
Ethanol, also called alcohol, ethyl alcohol, and drinking alcohol, is a compound and simple alcohol with the chemical formula C 2H 5OH. Its formula can be written also as CH 3−CH 2−OH or C 2H 5−OH, and is often abbreviated as EtOH. Wikipedia
Formula: C2H6O
Molar mass: 46.06844 g/mol
Boiling point: 173.1°F (78.37°C)
Density: 789 kg/m³
Melting point: -173.5°F (-114.1°C)
IUPAC ID: ethanol
Vapor pressure: 5.95 kPa

 

Octane
Chemical compound
Image result for octane chemical compound
Octane is a hydrocarbon and an alkane with the chemical formula C₈H₁₈, and the condensed structural formula CH₃(CH₂)₆CH₃. Octane has many structural isomers that differ by the amount and location of branching in the carbon chain. Wikipedia
Molar mass: 114.23 g/mol
Formula: C8H18
Boiling point: 257°F (125°C)
Density: 703 kg/m³

Vapor pressure    1.47 kPa

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Earl (?) did you read Saddle rider's whole comment? I think you actually agree with his comments hidden in the humor he wrote!;)

 

It's never too late to do the right thing....:D

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1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

Earl (?) did you read Saddle rider's whole comment? I think you actually agree with his comments hidden in the humor he wrote!;)

 

It's never too late to do the right thing....:D

 

 

Tee   Hee   Hee!  ;)..............................Bob

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5 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

Interesting......... Ethanol makes up only 10% of the full tank of fuel and yet accounts for 33% of the evaporation. ............................Bob

Never was that good in math.

Maybe it was only 12.67531%. Will have to calibrate my gas can next. 

No, on the other hand, won't use the crap anymore. 

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ever notice the badge "flex fuel" fuel on the newer cars? all it means is that the rubber parts that come in contact with the ethanol will not be damaged by it. it's really that simple, no special engine settings or injectors. just a different rubber compound.

 

Edited by cheezestaak2000 (see edit history)

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I don't know if it is the ethanol or not but in the last 10 yrs i had to replace the rubber fuel line from the hard line to the fuel pump, just last week was the third time. i asked at the auto parts store for rubber line that the ethanol will not effect it. he sold me fuel injector line. $13.00 for three feet. worth it if I have no more problems. replaced the three lines up front. now I will relace the one from the fuel tank to the hard line. This is on my 63 Bonne. I will replace all the lines on my 63 GP that I am restoring

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8 minutes ago, GARY F said:

he sold me fuel injector line.

 

My experience has been most auto parts stores assume the customer is an idiot (probably not a bad assumption in most cases) and will sell you the high pressure EFI hose to avoid potential liability unless you force them to sell you the low pressure stuff and sign 20 disclaimers and releases of liability.

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I must lead a charmed life. I go into my NAPA store and say "Gimee 5 feet of 5/16 fuel line".  He cuts it off of the roll and says "That'll be five bucks". I go home and put it on the car. Been doing it that way for the last 60 some years.  Haven't changed a fuel line yet because of softening, leaking, or other wise failing other than plain old age...............Bob

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Well, Bob, this gets into what constitutes old age? I have changed many a fuel line that was soft. I recall doing this even back in real gasoline days. The complaints now are "old age" seems to be not so long as in the old days.:D 

 

So if it wasn't leaking, soft or failing, why DID you replace them? You have a preventative maintanence schedule where you change them every 4 years?

 

Here is an explanation of J30R  specifications.

 

http://www.underhoodservice.com/correct-fuel-hose-installation/

 

The J30R09 hose is what most people get the best life out of now with ethanol fuel. Yes, I still have cars running older hoses myself, just like you. But other of mine have had soft lines that I had to replace.  I do not know why some of these fuel lines are effected, and others are not. Some might be off the same roll (I stock 25 foot reels of all three sizes, never know when I need some at 11 pm! ;)).

 

Note for people working on newer cars, the fuel hose for the in tank pumps has to be J30R10. Even the J30R09 gets soft inside the fuel tank. BTDT, got the prize of dropping the tank again, never again!:o

 

Flex Fuel vehicles DO change the injector pulse width, timing, etc to match what fuel is in the tank.  One can not just put E85 into any car (even with J30R09 hoses) and expect it to perform right. Here is an explanation of how the computer senses what fuel is in the tank:

 

http://www.underhoodservice.com/getting-tanked-flex-fuel-engine-modifications-allow-for-alcohol-based-fuel/

 

Hope this helps, but probably just confused the issue.:blink:

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