Blue smoke after moving to the mountains from Houston...

[6219_Rules]

I have a 1947 Cadillac Series 62, with 34000 original miles on the 347cid flat head V-8.

The car originated in Kansas and moved to Houston, TX afer 53 years to be restored.

The engine ran perfectly, even having sat for 45 years in a barn. It never burned oil.

I moved to the mountains of Colorado this year and naturally brought my Caddy with me. Within a month, it started to blow smoke (oil) on startup and when you excellerate. The mechanic told me I had to rebuild the engine, bore it out, etc. But I don't think that is right. I am interested in all opinions. I know that the 10% ethanol in the 93 octane gas may be at some fault here. Also this started right after I cleaned the carborator. So I may have blown a seal. What do you think?

[Guest]

I would be very surprised to find an engine that has not been "opened up" since new, and has had long perods of dead storage to have escaped bore damage from rust. My best guess, is that your rings are "gone".

Since these engines are so easy to work on, and since parts are readily available thr various vendors ( see HEMMINGS MOTOR NEWS ) I do not think this is much of a crisis situation. If it were me, I would simply pull the heads and pan off, do a valve grind, and assuming the bore can be "cleaned up" with a good honing, throw in a set of modern chrome-moly rings, and call it a day. Of course I would flush the hell out of the cylinder block and heads, and have thr radiator "rodded" (allow about four hundred bucks for a new radiator core, as it is MOST likely the radiator tubes are full of mineral deposits.

In ANY event, "do it yourselfers" should have the following, and know how to use them

1) a good vaccum guage

2) a "static" compression tester (the ordiary air pressure-type that you

plug into a spark plug hole, and crank the engine over

3) a "differential" type compression tester, by which you actually measure

the ability of any given cylinder, to hold air pressure. These are

MANDATORY for engine inspections in the general aviation aircraft

maintainence business...nice thing about em..is you can actuall SEE

and HEAR air escaping...and know WHERE it is escaping..if you have

valve, ring, or gasket problems.

Pete Hartmann

[6219_Rules]

Excellant answer! Thank you. I have had the radiator cored and the engine flushed. So at least that much is done. I was hoping it wasn't the rings since that will cost a lot of money to do. I will have to do a compression test and then pull the heads to really know what is going on then. Thanks again. At least I know what to expect.

Randall

[Guest]

Why do you think a ring and valve job "will cost a lot of money". Again, automotive engines of that time period are simple and rugged. If you are even a half - decent "do-it-yourselfer", have normal shop tools, and a buddy who has any knowledge at all of standard shop proceedure, you can do this yourself !

If you cant borrow a valve seat grinding rig ( since, obviously, your valve seats are in the engine block and thus cant be carried down to a automotive machine shop) I can't see the local machinist charging you more than a hundred bucks for this. Having the valves themselves "turned" ("ground") is probably not going to set you back fifty bucks. Rings ? Good set of chrome rings...perhaps another sixty bucks. Rod bearings...hmm...not sure...maybe around seventy five bucks....been a while since I have priced this stuff...!

Oh, yes....set of gaskets...another fifty bucks.

This is NOT rocket science. IF you have a good shop manual...and good mechanical skills...this is an excellent opportunity to get a "hands on" working knowledge of what your car is all about...and you will have an excellent performing car when you are done !

Pete Hartmann

[Guest]

Lykeios: Things aren't as simple as Mr. Hartmann would have you think. In some ways Peter is giving you some bad advice. If you would like me to explain in more detail, let me know.

[Guest]

Hey Lykeios:

I see this "anonymous"...who either couldnt be bothered and/or hasnt the GUTS to sign his real name, told you I have given you bad advice. I am sure there is a good reason for his 1) refusing to identify himself and 2) keeping his superior knowledge and ideas a secret.

Should you have the time and patience to be bothered with that kind of childish nonsence, I would be very interested in these "secret" comments of his..perhaps we can learn something from them ? Will you let us know ?

I think this "anomonous" is an excellent example supporting my argument that people who have this curious desire to "mouth off" without standing in back of their posts, should either be barred access from these technical chats, and/or deleted as soon as they "post" and/or automatically diverted to the "raves and rants" section. Such insulting nonsence has NO place in a technical chat-room where legitimate people like you have a need for sincere help and suggestions.

Pete Hartmann

Big Springs, AZ

[Guest J446]

Peter is TOTALLY CORRECT. No mechanical object can be left for long periods of time without being used and not sustain damage. Cars that are unused IHO soon lose their reason for being. Yesterday I was driving my 1931 Duesenberg when a green dashboard light came on reminding me to check the battery water. 71 years later and it still works! Drive Them! Use Them! Fix Them and Drive Them Some More!!!

Best

Jim

[6219_Rules]

I love to drive the '47. I agree totally. No car should be put up and expected to run normally. I was afraid of hurting the engine until I could get to it. I had my '69 Olds in for front end work so I put the Caddy in the garage for the time.

We are getting it out today.

I have thought my old mechanic was going too far saying the engine needed overhauling. A ring and valve job sounds about right. So we are taking it in to the garage this morning. My son will give it a compression check tomorrow and we will go from there.

I cannot imagine what fun it would be to tool around in a '31 Duesenberg! As you can tell I am new to the car collecting and enjoyment. I got into it as I became disabled in 2000. I had a sudden opportunity to get the 1947 Cadillac and took the leap.

I have never regretted it.

[Guest J446]

As we have all come to learn life is way to short to waste. Enjoy every moment.

See you on the highway!

Best

Jim

[Guest]

Peter: There are some other important things that a person should have when doing a ring job. 1.A goofd set of micrometers 2. Ring compresser 3. Torque wrench. To do a proper ring job there is alot more involved than than what you are stating. If I had the Caddy I would pull the engine and go over every thing and do it right the first time. In something that old I disagree with answer completely. Your kind of mechanic methods and advice are plain wrong.

[Guest]

Peter: The two post disagreeing with you where made by me Packard 53. I will make no more comments on the topic. Your not worth the hassle.

[Guest]

As a novice, I am relying on the knowledge of my son and the shop he is working for to handle the diagnosis. The compression seems to be good, and aside from the smoke (which is a blue/white color and acrid) the car is preforming fine. Our plan is to do a compression test on each of the cylinders tomorrow and see what it shows. I would agree that all things being equal we should do the entire engine now. There is little gained from skipping steps.

I am disabled and have no place in which to do this work were I able to do it. I do want to be in on the process since that is part of the fun! So we shall see how it turns out.

I would like to thank you all for your advice. It is wonderful to have met such a knowledgable group!

Randall

[Guest]

regarding " good compression...yet lots of BLUE smoke "

This is not that unusual. In OVER-HEAD valve cars, the seals around the valve guides, and/or the valve guides themselves, would be suspect. In flat-head engines like the reliable, rugged, but relatively simple Cad "346", given the historical background of this particular car (that it runs well..apparently dosnt make any "funny" noises...), I revert back to my previous suggestions.

I failed to mention that the Cadillac-La Salle Club is active, has good publications, plenty of cooperative vendors, and excellent technical support. Whoever is doing your work would be well to immediately focus on that as a splendid place to get "back-up" in both parts and service ideas.

Please keep in mind that rings do not always "go" at once. Compression rings may still be doing their job, but oil rings could be damaged, cracked, spring tension weak, etc.

Pete Hartmann

Big Springs, AZ

[Guest]

Worn valve guides and/or seals are generally indicated by smoke immediately after starting, oil leaking past the rings will cause smoke on acceleration.

What about the possibilty of some stuck rings? happens alot from lack of use and leisurely,non-stressfull driving. Get some TECHRON combustion cleaner {a mandatory fix for caddy 4100 engines of the early '80's that suffered from gummed rings!}run your car until it's nice and hot and A: either pour it into the carb slowly while the motor is idling{be careful, too much can cause hydrolock!}and when she starts to stumble shut it off and let it sit until it cools. OR stop the engine and immediately remove the sparkplugs and pour it in there with a flexible funnel, maybe 3 ounces per cyl, put the plugs back, crank the engine over a few times without starting it and let it sit. I know of 4 cars that this treatment helped, although cracked rings could be a possibility too, this happened to a '30's Mercedes I found in a barn.

One thing, you mentioned being disabled, does this car have hydramatic? I don't know if Caddys of that vintage had vacuum modulators but whitish smoke indicates tranny fluid.