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Should I buy a old car even if I don t know how to fix cars yet?


adrienne223
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LEADING classical recording company Deutsche Grammophon (DG) has produced new technologies, which it asserts substantially improves the sound of records. Dealing with Yamaha, it's started producing CDs employing a new technology that it requires 4D Audio Recording. The very first 4D recordings have already gone on the market in Australia. It's so clear and natural, states DG, "you will not feel you are listening to your recording". You do not require any special gear to listen to that the benefits: almost any CD player is going to do, although naturally the sound is best when performed through great high-fidelity loudspeakers.

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Having listened extensively to a few 4D CDs within the last couple of months, then I'm impressed. I've yet to be completely suckered to the illusion which a 4D recording is a live performance. The 4D documents are surely among the very best illustrations of orchestral songs I've heard. There aren't any sonic woods, but also the sound isn't obviously natural as well as gallop. In orchestral collections, each device remains clearly delineated, instead of blurring to a fuzzy melange of sound.

 

Instrumental timbre, which most elusive of all recording aims, is especially noticeable. The 4D process is largely the job of Klaus Hiemann, also the manager of DG's recording facility in Hanover, as well as the specialized leader Stefan Shibata, also a gifted recording engineer and also one-time roadie for both Elton John and Joe Cocker. It's Hiemann's unshakeable belief that "the only real goal of recording technologies is the fact that it must eventually be inaudible". For many years he's been working together with engineers in Yamaha toward this fantasy: designing gear that could "eliminate the listener's awareness of their specialized moderate, allowing the enjoyment of a totally natural sound quality".

 

You will find four new elements in the 4D recording platform which they've come up with: a brand new remote-controlled mic preamplifier; a industry-leading 21-bit analog-to-digital converter; a device known as a "stagebox" that sits to the recording platform one of the musicians; along with brand new electronic mixing and mastering procedures. We shouldn't be overly disturbed about the technicalities here. Suffice to state that the stagebox, that retains the preamplifier and analog-to- electronic converter, brings critical phases of the recording procedure as near as you can to the true performance.

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By multiplying the long pathway which formerly lay between mic and studio, then the 4D system eliminates significant sources of sound cancelling. A fast word for those techies, also, on 21-bit recording. Regular 16-bit digital recording attempts to recreate the waveforms of audio utilizing 65,536 possible gradations, or even little stairs and steps. Together with 21-bit recording, you'll find over two million stairs and steps, which makes it feasible to replicate a much more precise waveform. It's a tricky business: due for the function with Yamaha, DG claims to possess the sole 21-bit converters available right now.

 

DG's 4D records could be identified with just a little 4D emblem on the front part of the CD box. For Broadway musical fans, there's a brand new record of Leonard Bernstein's On The City by a mostly operatic cast like Frederica von Stade; Michael Tilson runs the London Symphony. The recording was made in London's Barbican Centre with all of the ambiance of a live theatrical performance: the perfect program for 4D technologies (DG 437 512-2).

 

A lot more classical records are expected on 4D in forthcoming months: it isn't yet clear if other companies will license the technologies to deliver exactly the same brand new clarity to jazz and rock. SONY Australia has announced four new CD Discman compact disk players: 3 portables plus one designed especially to be used in the auto. Even the D-822K Car Discman includes a special dual-damper shock absorber program, and it can be promised to eliminate the bypassing of brief passages once your vehicle hits a bump. Sony says it could endure shocks as large since 1G _ enough to make sure that bypassing is uncommon under ordinary driving conditions. The player is created of heat-resistant materials to resist the high temperatures created in automobiles left parked at sunlight.

See Also: https://medium.com/@carspeakerland/a-guide-to-the-simple-way-difference-in-car-speakers-2-way-3-way-4-way-25e0bf215b00

 

The automobile Discman includes straps to join to auto speakers and power throughout the auto cigarette lighter socket. There's a very small palm- best remote controller, which Sony claims makes for secure operation and effortless access whilst driving _ you do not need to take your eyes off the street. Even the D-882K also offers special digital processing systems which may be employed to add a thumpier bass if this is your fancy, or even to boost low- level sounds which could be difficult to listen to commonly at a moving automobile.  



 
 
Edited by adrienne223 (see edit history)
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There is no better teacher than experience. Get in there, get your hands dirty, and learn as you go. You won't get it right the first time or every time, but each time you'll learn something new. Always remember that you're as smart as anyone else who works on cars, so if they can figure it out, so can you. The only advantage they have is experience, which you'll get in time. No shortcuts for that. The 280Z is probably a better choice since it's not turbocharged like the Skyline, but if you're patient, neither is particularly challenging if parts are available. Buy the books and manuals for whatever car you get, read them before you start turning bolts, and then get busy. The internet is a wealth of information and help, particularly on those cars, so if you ever find yourself in a jam, there is surely someone out there who has already had that problem and solved it and will be happy to share their knowledge with you.


Get in and get busy, don't worry about not knowing. None of knew anything when we started and all of us still do things that we've never done before. You'll learn and gain confidence as you go. Most of all, have fun!

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When I bought my first old car – a 26 Cadillac – I had a 3/8 socket set from Sears and a handful of open end wrenches my father bought when he got married. As Matt has said, there is no better teacher than experience.

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Hi Adrienne223 ! You are in the right place , AACA. Welcome ! The two previous gentlemen are great experts in their respective realms of the old car hobby. Many more are here to help you , and enjoy very much offerring their expertise. Join us. Stay with us. Your local friends , and perhaps someone on the forums near you can come in person to show you how to do various things. There is an enormous amount of kindness , patience , and generosity in AACA. Ask anything anytime. You'll see !    -  Carl

 

P.S. A cardinal rule of purchasing old cars is : buy the very best example you can of the car you want. Getting a car somewhat better than what you think you can afford will end up costing you less in fairly short order. And over a period of time the savings accumulate. 

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Adrienne223;

 

Before you buy an old car, find someone trustworthy and competent to inspect the car for you.  Look over that person's shoulder during the inspection, and ask questions.  Remember, there are no dumb questions when you are new to a subject.  

 

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

 

Cheers,

Grog

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Adrienne, welcome to the old car hobby!  You certainly

don't need to be a mechanic in order to have an old car.

After all, people have furnaces, dishwashers, computers,

and boats, and they may rely on others to repair some or

all of those.

 

I'm not a mechanic, yet I enjoy the hobby fully with multiple cars.

It's wise, then, to get cars that aren't known to be problematic,

and make sure there is someone in your area who can work on them.

The Datsun 280Z is "modern" enough that someone should know it.

I don't know the other car model.

 

Old cars, just by virtue of being older, will need a bit more work

than a modern car you buy.  Your older car will be much better off if

you drive it  periodically (at least a few hundred miles a year).

People who let their cars sit for a long time (say 9 months or a year

or longer) will have more problems.  I'm sure you'll want to drive your

car occasionally rather than just look at it in the garage!

 

All the best to you.  Have courage, look around for the right car,

and jump in to a hobby that will give you and your family decades of fun!

 

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Fine someone to look it over that knows what they are doing. Buy something you can drive and enjoy not a complete rebuild. Find a local club and join it. Go to “cars & coffee” type events and get to know others with the same type cars. Enjoy it you’ll learn along the way. 

If you get the 280Z ( I had a couple of them) for future knowledge a lot of Bosch electric parts can replace a lot of the Japanese parts and work/last longer. Have fun

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I agree with the advice above that owning a car is the best way to learn how to work on it. Something else to consider is that a car never sold new in the US, like the R32, will be more challenging because there is less access to parts and information. For example, when I needed to replace the window motor in my Nissan Figaro, I had to order the part from England and use a shop manual that was written in Japanese.

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Welcome to the AACA forum!

 

If I understand your post correctly, you'd like to buy your first car and would like it to be a Nissan Skyline R32 or a Datsun 280Z.  Presumably, you'd like this car to last as long as possible.  If you live in the rust belt, your daily driver will likely eventually succumb to corrosion so many people have winter beaters to save their summer cars.  If this is your situation and you have the space available, I would recommend that you buy a good used car and Phil Edmonston's Lemon-Aid Guide has good advice.  The public library often has this book in the reference section.

 

If you live in an area that doesn't have road salt, then I would look for one of your cars in good condition.  You can learn as you go along by starting off with simple maintenance and repairs.  More involved repairs where you aren't confident in your abilities could then be done by your favorite mechanic.  Often, the hardest part of maintenance is reading the owners manual.  I regularly go to YouTube to see if anyone else has already done a repair I'm planning.

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WHAT OLD CAR FOR A 'STARTER' CAR TO ENJOY THE OLD CAR HOBBY...?

 

It is imperative to remember that ALL old cars are "antique-classics".     Some folks say you should wait till they are 20 years old,  but isnt that illogical?   After all, does that make sense to discourage people from the  old car hobby just because their car is only 19 years old ?  In many cases,  can anyone really tell the difference between a 19 year old car and a 20 year old car ?

 

Yes, I agree with some of the assumptions and recommendations in here - stick to an old  Japanese product such as a Datsun, Honda, or Toyota.   Many of them were made here in the USA  (or in Canada )  so they are well made, & parts may be less of a problem than the foreign cars  ( Like Fords, Chevrolets and Chrysler products...many of them were made overseas,  and/or had high concentrations of foreign made (and thus hard to find)  parts.

 

I personally would recommend as a "starter" hobby old car for someone just wanting to learn how to fix things....ANY old car made after the mid 1990's.   By the mid 1990's, cars had, by law,  to be set up with a nice computer jack on the left under-side of the dashboard.

 

All you would need for those is what is called an OBD II "reader",  which you can buy at any big auto parts store.  Get a good one,  so that when something goes bad on that old car,  you plug in your OBD II , &  are told in plain-language what part to replace.   That will get you started on replacing parts. 

 

Once you are comfortable removing and installing replacement parts on old cars,  then you can start thinking about an older car that isn't set up for OBD II.  By then you will have a fair understanding of fasteners, tools,  and how they relate to each other and parts of old cars.  Just don't forget to call it an "antique classic"....!

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Really the first question should be "where are you ?" Probably the best place for the cars you mention is Southern California but there are cult pockets in strange places. The place to find out is on the marque forums.

 

Second should be "do you want a computer car or not ?" (GM started in 1981). Personally I really like the instrumentation possible but is yet another sub-culture.

 

Finally "What facilities do you have available ?" I have changed a clutch before on an oak tree root but prefer a garage. Having a Harbor Freight close by is also good.

 

All together should help with "what car". Personally, I'd leave the Skyline to fanatics who pull engines for a tune-up. Datsun Z cars are always popular, my preference would be a 240 stick car, 260 then 280 each got a bit larger and have safety bumpers. 

 

Whatever you decide on get a service manual first to get an in-depth feeling for the car and check on-line for common problems.

 

Good luck. I started with an XK Jag because it was cheaper tan the TR3 I really wanted. Then I found out why. Still have Whitworth wrenches.

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If you need a daily driver that you have to depend on buy a newer dependable car that you can get repaired easily. If you are looking to satisfy an itch and have the funds to have the itch $cratched by someone else whenever it needs attention just buy what you like. 

Nothing kills a dream faster than having the object of your desires let you down when it's needed the most. lust soon turns to loathing.

That works for both  things and people.

Think about it................Bob

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Guess what is missing is "do you want to learn" ? If so computer or pre computer ? (and we had FI in the early 50s, long before computers).

 

Major difference is that pre-computer a car will run badly with problems for a long time. Post computer it will tell you when it has a problem and what is is if you bother to ask. (a few things won't set a code but that is an indicator in itself.

 

Any car responds to triage (quadage ?), have to have:

- air

- fuel

- ignition

- compression

Just some make it easier to tell what is wrong than others.

 

That said have driven old (fastest is almost 50) cars for thousands of miles at Interstate speeds with the AC on & once sorted go for years with just normal maintenance.

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Buy the old car, take everything apart you feel confident doing, and try to fix anything you see wrong. Break stuff. Get angry. Throw tools. Fix the stuff you broke. Learn something new each time. Make memories with friends or family members willing to join in. Break more stuff, fix it again. This is what old cars are all about, they are like a giant-snap together model kit, and it's all yours to play with.

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"Should I buy a old car even if I don t know how to fix cars yet?"

 

I did. It never crossed my mind I would have problems with it (1936 Chev). Didn't even have a place to store it. It drove all right (or so I thought) and looked rough enough so that was it. I joined a club and muddled my way onwards. I am still muddling my way along, 40 years on. You will seek help when you need it. You only get one life so Just Do It!

 

P.S. It turned out to have a crack in the block but I didn't see that.

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1 hour ago, Buick64C said:

 

What's missing is the OP. I don't understand asking a question, having people take the time to answer and then not paying the courtesy of acknowledging the help.

 

Happens more  times than not.  It's ALL ABOUT them......................Bob

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Classic Cars are better…

I prefer old cars (pre 80s) infinitely more than the newer cars (post 80s).For a couple of reasons:

 

-Old/classis increase in value.

Buy a new car today, tomorrow it's worth half as much. Now a classic car....the older it gets, the higher the price. Buying a classic car is not only a great thing, but also an investment.

 

-Classics are much easier to fix:

Open the hood of a classic and next to it open the hood of a new car. It is obvious that the classic is hundreds of times simpler and easier to the new cars that have hundreds of sensors, switches jigs and jags. The classics also have much more space to work with, making a repair easy even for someone who is not a mechanic. Damn, some new cars you have to disassemble the whole damn thing just to replace a head gasket or timing belt. What would be a simple procedure becomes a nightmare because of all the things in the way. Not forgetting that modern cars all require special parts, tools and jigs , while it was possible to use a standard set of tools to repair virtually any make and model of old cars.

With a little bit of experience, YOU'LL NEVER NEED A MECHANIC to fix your classic. I highly recommend owning a manual. It teaches you step by step how to easily maintain and repair the classic car…something difficult nowadays.

 

-classics are much more reliable.

Nowadays, cars are filled with plastic parts that easily brake and have an extremely low lifetime. Back in the day, car were built with top quality materials, and built to last. Cars came with thick impenetrable undercoat directly from the factory. With new cars, 1 winter is all it takes to turn the entire underbelly of a brand new car into a ball of rust.

That being said, It is a nightmare dealing with rusty screws and rusty parts of new cars. A simple job can turn into a nightmare because of a lousy screw. It seems to me that manufacturers purposefully build parts that brake easily and don't last to oblige the driver to spend loads of money on new parts and services.

 

 

-Parts are cheaper:

Contrary to popular belief, parts of classic cars are most often cheaper than newer ones, although it might require a little extra time to find, since your local auto shop will most likely not have them. A quick search on ebay and rockauto.com proves the point.

 

-Classics are safer:

For those that criticize old cars not having air bags, consider this: classics were made of solid thick metal, and moderns are made virtually entirely of plastic or thin sheet metal. Drive a dodge dart into a little honda and you'll see what happens....the classics drive out of an accident with a scratch on the bumper while the poor modern car is completely destroyed or cut in half. No doubt they rigidity of cars would have had the opposite effect in those days( accident between 2 classics) , but in the event of an accident, I much rather be inside the classic than the modern car.

Just install good seat belts and your safe as can be.

 

-economy:

Generally speaking, cars have become more efficient at the cost of cheap crappy plastic parts and mass production. However, when considering economy, you also need to consider that classics have many more advantages as I pointed out. Personally, I think that the lower insurance, never having to buy stupidly expensive parts, never needing a mechanic, the increase of the price of the classic car(an investment) and the overall ease of maintaining a classic largely outbalances the small extra cost of fuel. Of course, if you’re thinking of a large 70’s car with a massive V8 engine, than this might not be true, but a small 2 door 63’ Rambler American is just as economic as a modern car… and it still has all the benefits of a great classic.

I have no problem of driving a classic everyday.

 

 

All in all…you can probably see that I am largely favorable of the good old classics.Get that classic, and if you change your mind later, you can probably sell it an get some profit.

 

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I didn't grow up working on cars or in a family that did more than oil changes ourselves. I got my first "old car" in 2001, it was a 1984 AMC Eagle (so only 17 years old at the time). I really enjoyed learning about cars with that one and honestly never got it back on the road before my mom got tired of it in her spot in the garage, but it got me started in the hobby! At the time there were web forums and neighbors to help. Now YouTube makes learning super easy! If it's not a daily driver it's easier to plan repairs ahead of time. Buy tools gradually, and get what you can used off craigslist or from auctions as you need em. Lots of specialty tools can be "rented" from car parts stores. Buy it for sure and have some fun! Don't be afraid to ask questions and don't let others tell you that what you like isn't _____ enough. It's about what you like! If you want to keep it original to represent Nissan than this is the place to be, even if some folks here will not understand, don't let em discourage you from owning an OLD car from the 1990s!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/10/2017 at 5:34 PM, tom61 said:

-classics are much more reliable.

Nowadays, cars are filled with plastic parts that easily brake and have an extremely low lifetime. Back in the day, car were built with top quality materials, and built to last. Cars came with thick impenetrable undercoat directly from the factory. With new cars, 1 winter is all it takes to turn the entire underbelly of a brand new car into a ball of rust.

That being said, It is a nightmare dealing with rusty screws and rusty parts of new cars. A simple job can turn into a nightmare because of a lousy screw. It seems to me that manufacturers purposefully build parts that brake easily and don't last to oblige the driver to spend loads of money on new parts and services.

 

-Classics are safer:

For those that criticize old cars not having air bags, consider this: classics were made of solid thick metal, and moderns are made virtually entirely of plastic or thin sheet metal. Drive a dodge dart into a little honda and you'll see what happens....the classics drive out of an accident with a scratch on the bumper while the poor modern car is completely destroyed or cut in half. No doubt they rigidity of cars would have had the opposite effect in those days( accident between 2 classics) , but in the event of an accident, I much rather be inside the classic than the modern car.

Just install good seat belts and your safe as can be.

Great points but I do not agree at all with these two. Most older cars were built to last up to 100,000 miles if you are lucky without having to tear everything down and rebuild it. That's a huge generalization, but we're speaking generally here. Also, virtually allnew cars are galvanized, or dipped in primer baths, electrostatically primered/painted so every nook and cranny inside and out os covered and protected, while most old cars were simply sheet metal primed and painted with no protection if there's a chip or scratch and some, like old Mercedes, rust from the backside out as they are even less protected on the reverse of body panels.

 

Safer? Not by a long shot. Air bags, antilock brakes, modern brake systems, tire contact patch sizes, acceleration, handling in sudden avoidance maneuvers, stability control, all make modern cars safer. Slightly thicker steel has virtually no bearing against crash level forces. I've seen countless photos of classics literally torn in half but this happens to modern cars only when it was a high speed incident usually. In a lower speed crash, the fact that an old car looks untouched while a modern one is smashed up is a visible testament to the effectiveness of energy absorbing crumple zones.

 

I love my old Mercedes, even tho is has no air bags, no collapsible steering column, no radar road scanning system, no robot to rub my feet, but I would still never choose to be in any sort of accident in this car over even the most lowly of present-day Toyotas.

 

Compare cabin deformation and ingress of engine/dash to the passenger cell in these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

 

This one even compares similarly sized cars from 1997 and today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7o2MB6DuKk

 

Not to argue your opinion, but clarity on safety matters, well, matters!

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Very well said Marrscars. I too love my old car but have to drive with a lot more room between cars for the reasons you list and the inattentive drivers around me. When driving these older cars you are too busy to text or talk on a phone. Even with seat belts that heavy metal front end  can drive the steering column right into your chest in a crash 

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We will be taking my '60 Electra out for a ride and lunch in another county today. I feel very safe driving it.

 

I usually drive a little above the speed limit, but I pace my car so a modern car is a reasonable number of car lengths ahead of me. From time to time she comments, especially if the car ahead turns off. "Lost you deer car, huh?" Yes, always let a speeding car take the lead, both for the deer and the pilfering police traps. At times two cars may be tailgating each other ahead of you. I figure that is two engineered "crush zones" for my protection.

 

At a recent family get together I was asked what I do if someone tailgates me. I recognize that as a potentially dangerous situation. So I slow my car to minimize any damage if a collision occurs. It gives me a level of safety to damage but seems to cause the tailgater to abuse their car. Those little engines whining at 7,000 RPM, as they desperately try to achieve 75 MPH in a short distance, smell awful.

 

Safety is just a matter of how you use the tools available. So next time you are rolling along at 70 and see an old car pacing you about 6 or 7 car lengths behind you don't worry about the deer or the cops. You are doing a good job.

 

BTW, anyone planning to drive in Orleans County, New York today?

Bernie

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I can't reiterate MarrsCars' points strongly enough. Old cars are NOT safer, not by a long shot. Please stop saying this. These foolish comparisons that everyone makes about how the modern car was crumpled up and the old car was unscathed isn't a testament to how safe the old car is, or how frail a modern car is, but rather a testament to how well modern cars work to protect their occupants. We hear this a lot in the hobby and it's simply not true. A car that doesn't bend is far LESS SAFE than one that does. It's basic physics. I know it's fashionable to ignore science these days and go with gut feels instead, but the modern car that crumples and folds is dissipating the astronomical forces of a crash by bending its metal (after a crash, the bent steel is often warm to the touch--that's the energy that didn't go into your cranium and chest). You've heard the term "crumple zone" and surely seen the scoring on the front-end sheetmetal that ensures the metal will bend in a controlled manner, which means the engineers are intentionally designing cars that bend and crumple. Why the heck would they do that? A car that doesn't bend transfers all that force to anything that isn't part of the car, meaning the squishy meat bags inside. Know how football players are getting these horrendous brain injuries? Going from 7 MPH to 0 MPH in half a second. What do you suppose happens to your brain and body if you go from 70 MPH to 0 in half a second? All that energy has to go somewhere...

 

And never mind the steel dashboards and "Impale-O-Matic" steering columns...

 

I would happily trade the safety of my 1929 Cadillac for the safety of a Smart car. You cannot possibly be safer in an old car than a modern car. Don't pretend that all that steel is some kind of fortress of solitude. It's just a solid metal box inside of which you're going to be trapped as the laws of physics try to disassemble your body bit by bit. Drive accordingly!

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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You can have pretty darn safe and older / border line collectable if you are a fan of Volvo 240's.  The sportier ones are starting to increase in value , late 70's, early 80's GT's Turbo's and GLT's and they are actually quite pleasant to drive.  Good ones are getting harder to find but with some effort there are still some decent ones in the sub $10,000.00 category and if you are really lucky 1/2 of that.

  Parts availability is very good , with most mechanical stuff still from Volvo themselves.  A bit pricy for parts but better than BMW or a late model Japanese car. And apart from the fuel injection very simple to work on.

 Rust can be a problem along with the general tendency for very high mileage , but there are low mile clean ones out there. 

  And they are surprisingly quick and nimble for a car affectionately nick named "the brick"

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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