Jump to content

Speedster Builds.............


alsfarms

Recommended Posts

Alan,

 

I spoke to Don today. He's waiting for winter to end just like me! At this point a little global warming would be most welcome!

 

In regards to the valve shrouds - As Don and I discussed, since there are some differences between the early and later engines I am going to 3d print 2 halves that

I can ship out to you to try. I should have these on the way to you by the end of next week. Once we know that these will work Don can drop the patterns

off at the foundry that's near him and get a price for you.

 

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Terry,  Thanks for the effort on 3-D printing of the valve stem covers.  Do you have an idea what the differences are between the "early" and "late" designs?  I am guessing that my Model M is an early version but that is just my best guess.  I will watch for your delivery and verify fitment on my engine.

Regards,

Alan 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More progress has been made with the Locomobile engine rebuild.    The attached picture shows the aux oil pump drive and pump that was incorporated to GREATLY improve the engine oiling.  The original drip oiler has been left in place and is used now as a distribution center and additional oil reservoir holding about 1 quart.  This system works nice and is set at 25 PSI.

Al

IMG_20180306_101753454.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

The last couple of months have been rather busy and I have been on a few other tangent projects.  I thought I would post a few pictures of the intake side of my late teens 570 CID four cylinder "T" head American-LaFrance engine.  I am comparing the intake on this 4 cylinder American-LaFrance engine with the intake on the Simplex speedster located at the top of this page.  Another picture shows better the cast aluminum four blade fan from that engine, and the last picture shows a decent engine bracket that does a good job holding this engine up.  The reason I post these pictures is to show everyone the style of the American-LaFrance "rams horn" style intake manifold that I intend to replicate in copper, then have nickle plated to match the rest of the engine appointments which will also be bright nickle plated, (for use on the Wisconsin project).

Al

Last is the intake picture of an American-LaFrance 6 cylinder engine.  That manifold is rather "chunky" and is not very aesthetic appearing, to my taste.

DSC01577.JPG

DSC01783.JPG

DSC01784.JPG

DSC01785.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Mike,  The cast aluminum American-LaFrance intake manifold will be staying on the 570 CID four cylinder engine.  That engine is a complete unit that I made a very BIG driving trip in order to procure it.  I want it to stay intact whether I use it or sell it to someone else.  As a result, I will use some creativity and build a new manifold out of copper then have it plated as suggested above.  I have a good lead on a source for several large bore carbs. (to use on the Wisconsin "T" head).  I am just waiting to determine if the carbs. have an integral accelerator pump before I buy.  I am getting set to build some appropriate and very proper brass spark plug nuts for the Locomobile.  I will take a look at the Edison Battery box, they do not come up very often.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a picture of an equal leg brass 1-1/2" "Y" that I will use to build a "Rams Horn" style intake manifold for the Wisconsin, which I am missing.  Here is the interesting part, we each certainly have a "knack" for hunting for specialized parts to assist in building our antique relics.  I had hunted high and low for this type of "Y" and I couldn't find anything.  I guess I am not a very good scrounger.  I was referred to this pictured "Y" from a fellow restorer and am most thankful to have good friends that can help us along the way.  I will ad a bit more information as this project unfolds.  I will also post pictures of a pair of matching brass 90 deg. elbows shortly.  A big Thanks....

Al

DSC01799.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Update,  the Locomobile 4 cylinder engine failed the first start attempt with a small modern starter generator.  I then purchased a Dodge Bros. 12 volt starter generator and mounted it to run a belt around the flywheel.  The good new is that the DB starter arrangement does work in this application and we have had first fire in the Locomobile.  We are currently having a problem with the new rebuilt Carter BB-1 carb. not pulling the full up to run the engine, (the float bowl is fully charged with fuel).  Does anyone hare have experience with BB-1's.  I am thinking the small tube, internal to the carb, may not be long enough.  So far so good however, the oiling system improve and the Delco Dual spark distributor are both performing great.  Pictures and maybe a video will be forth coming.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Jon,  Thanks for your reply/  The Locomobile engine size is just under 300 CID.  I have and know of at least one other Locomobile that is currently running very well with the Carter BB-1 carb.  Do you have any thoughts as to why I can't get gasoline to pull from the carb up into the engine?  What should I be looking for and being careful to very the proper setting?  This carb. is a rebuilt carb that should not be behaving like this!  The needle and seat look good and function properly to allow the float bowl to fill.  No porting is plugged.  All moving parts are free.  Your thoughts and experience are appreciated.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK - you guys are confusing me with two different engines in the same thread ;) A minor different in the air/fuel requirements of a 570 CID and a 300 CID ;)

 

For the slightly less than 300 CID you should be using BB-1 289s or BB-1 289sd. These are the largest of the BB-1's. Carter made 68 different type BB-1's in different sizes and configurations. Very important to pick the CORRECT BB-1. Because of the value of the universal BB-1's, there are a number of individuals, either less than knowledgeable, or less than honest, that will be happy to sell you the wrong BB-1.

 

With any updraft, engine vacuum must be sufficient to pull the fuel from the carburetor. As I mentioned in a different thread, if an adapter is necessary, it should be as short as possible so as to minimize additional column height for the fuel/air mixture to move.

 

Assuming the carburetor is correctly rebuilt, and the correct carburetor, the only issue I can see would NOT be carburetor related, possibly a vacuum leak. Some years ago, had a customer that could not get fuel to the engine from a Stromberg type SF carburetor. He finally removed the intake, and found a rusted out access plug in the back side of the intake.

 

Have you tried spraying ether in the air intake to see if the engine will start and continue running? The results of this test might be informative.

 

Jon.

Edited by carbking (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Jon,

I did some follow-up on my BB-1 carb. malfunction.  No vacuum leak was found.  I know for sure that both the idle circuit and the accelerator pump circuit are dry and allow no fuel to enter the venturi of the carb.  from the float bowl.  The needle and seat both seem to be working to get fuel into the carb., I guess I just need to clean out the two fuel admission circuits to fuel the engine.  I have no brass tag with this carb.  Can you help me determine what I have from a picture or two of any of the pieces I have?  Let me know what you think.

Al

DSC01801.JPG

DSC01802.JPG

DSC01803.JPG

DSC01804.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Al - the all cast iron construction definitely places the carburetor prior to 1946, when Carter changed to a zinc allow bowl, and 6 bowl screws. It is also definitely not the universal 289S, as it does not have the universal throttle shaft or the fast idle linkage from choke to throttle.

 

My GUESS would be a Dodge truck or Chrysler marine engine to which someone has added the adjustable main metering jet.

 

Knowing the center-to-center mounting bolt spacing might narrow it down.

 

It still should at least start and run your engine, although probably not well.

 

Since yours is the second BB-1 question today, I am going to post the link to my website to the original Carter BB-1 service instructions here for all to view:

 

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Service_Carter_BB_updraft.pdf

 

The key to idle issues on the BB-1 is the passage BENEATH the idle jet ("N" in the instructions diagram). THIS JET MUST BE REMOVED DURING REBUILDING.

 

The pump squirting fuel back into the fuel bowl is probably the result of failure of the pump inlet check valve. Both the pump inlet and outlet check valves ARE available, but due to their construction, they ARE expensive, so we do not place them in the repair kits. Generally, they can be cleaned, and their insertion into the kit would more than triple the cost of the kits!

 

However, neither the pump failure or a completely stopped up idle passage is preventing fuel from reaching the cylinders and allowing the engine to start. If the throttle is opened, say half way, and the choke is closed, the piston suction should pull fuel from the main metering circuit, allowing the engine to start and run at a higher than idle RPM.

 

Even though the carb obviously is not perfect, I don't think the carb is the current issue.

 

Jon.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am going to post a couple of pictures showing the nice brass Maestrini fittings (imported from the UK) that will be used to fabricate the missing intake manifold for the 727 CID Wisconsin "T" head engine project.  These fittings will allow for the use of 1.900 OD SS pipe with a .065 wall thickness.  The Wisconsin rebuild will start after the Locomobile engine is completed.  The first picture show the profile of the fittings the next picture gives an overview for the configuration the manifold will take, using the fittings.  The legs running from the "Y" will either be straight or have a gentle arc. 

Al

DSC01805.JPG

DSC01806.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:21 PM, alsfarms said:

Jon,  Before I go any further with the trouble shooting process, I will verify NO VACUUM leaks.  That is an idea I had not thought of!

Al Put some oil in the cylinders to seal up the rings. If you have valve lash it should then suck.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Mike,  The Locomobile engine  has new rings, valve seats, guides and etc.  I don't think I am loosing vacuum past the valves or rings.   Sat.,  we cranked over the engine using the D-B starter generator.  On the test stand it works great.  I will have the means to have a silent starter and also a generator in one nice package.  We modified the drive pulley to be compatible with a modern serpentine belt and adapted a spring tensioner to help track the belt and keep it tight.   That will allow me to use a battery to run the Delco dual spark distributor and tend the battery while driving the car.  The full pressure oiling system worked like a charm.  The tube that is pinched off, above the funnel, will run to the drip sight gauge mounted on the dash and verify that everything is being lubed properly.   We hooked up a hot wire, primed the petcocks and in less than two revolutions the old girl barked to life.  Right now I am dealing with a carb. problem, however.  Jon has made several suggestions and at this moment I do not know for sure if I will be staying with the Carter BB-1 or using a Stromberg SF-3.   I have a friend, with the same model Locomobile, that has been running great for about 10 years on a cast iron BB-1.  It was very exciting to hear the engine run after so many years of inactivity!  I need to get going on the chassis.  Many of the other important items are already completed and could be installed on the chassis when it's time.   This project has been quite a marathon!  Here are a few pictures that show where I am at with the Locomobile.

Al

IMG_20180630_111443735.jpg

IMG_20180630_111433483_HDR.jpg

IMG_20180306_101726436.jpg

IMG_20180630_111405355_HDR.jpg

IMG_20180630_111355715.jpg

IMG_20180630_111343924.jpg

IMG_20180630_111333189.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Mike,  Did you ever get a chance to go and visit the Harrah Collection while it was still intact under his ownership?  It was a business.  I can't even guess how many employees he had working to make it all happen.  I personally do not want to go to the work of rebuild and not know what I have until late in the game.  I have enjoyed the first short run but until I can rectify the carb. problem, that is all I will get.

Regards,

Al

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Dave,  Is it hot and dry this year in NM?  We are burning up here, literally.  I think we have 8 forest fires going at the moment.  Having the Locomobile engine this close to being DONE surely gives me the incentive to get after the balance of the car.  Most of the big items are completed already and are just waiting for install.  Have you done anything on your Nash?

Al

Edited by alsfarms
spelling (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hmmmm Dave, your story of space or lack of it and then being full of too much "stuff" rings a familiar chime.  Funny thing is we are not getting any younger.  I have actually moved some projects along, that I thought I had to have, on to other interested fellows as I consolidate my efforts on just a couple of projects.  (If I could just find a few pieces for the JD Harley, I may be done hunting....ya sure!)

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Our good weather, out doors season, is nearing an end.  Does anyone building a speedster have good plans for significant progress on their project for this winter.  I have been involved with a shop enlargement project that may take me up to the time snow flies.  As a result, not much new, at the moment for speedster mechanics or progress.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Al,

i have big aspirations for the winter. Harvest will be here in probably two weeks.

untill that's done I won't get much done on the project but have a vast majority of the components now so won't have to do much searching this winter and more building and fabricating. The t head showed 3200 miles on the odometer and I would have to think it's accurate from the looks of the internals. Looks like a hone, crank polish and valve and seat grind may get it in shape.

marc

IMG_0824.JPG

IMG_0825.JPG

IMG_0826.JPG

IMG_0827.JPG

IMG_0828.JPG

IMG_0829.JPG

IMG_0830.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Marc,  How is your disc wheel building project going?  You may want to check the difference between the bead height of an old style "high pressure" sized tire and the bead height of a modern truck type tire that is made to fit the rim you have mounted to the lathe face plate.  You may have to groom the rim bead flange to properly fit an old style "high pressure" tire to your end product.  Please let me know what you determine.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Al,

that is something that has crossed my mind. 

The rim that I have narrowed is an agricultural  wheel rim.The bead height is the same as the buffalo wheel rims. 

I think I lucked out on this issue. I hadn't thought of that till after I started narrowing the rim.

marc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hello Everyone,  We are at the end of the summer season and bad weather is coming up shortly.  What is the updates on the several speedster projects now under way?  The best update I have is that the Locomobile engine rebuild is now completed, runs strong and nicely.  I am not yet satisfied with the carburetor and have another BB-1 carb to install and dial in.  More on that later.  On starting the engine, I have another update.  It took a couple of tries to get it right but the early Dodge Bros. starter/generator works great to start the engine.  Talk about quiet, I hit the starter button and the next thing you hear is the engine hitting, no starter/ring gear noise at all!  I am very impressed.  We installed a new style rear main seal so I should not have the typical oil slinging from the rear seal to oil everything.  I need the OD of the flywheel to stay dry to allow the serpentine belt to grip the OD of the flywheel and the starter generator.  The full pressure oil system works great also with about 25 PSI being delivered to the crank and rods.  That is a good upgrade.  The Delco dual system is also an excellent update that certainly makes the engine run smoothly with no burps or coughs.  What are your updates.  Get the shop ready, winter is on the way and we need to stay busy!

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi Mike,

 

Just a bit of Harrah's history, having worked there back in the late '60's doing research, I was often down on the shop floor checking our progress on my restoration projects. The thought that they never started a motor until the car was finished simply not factual.


Most if not all engines were started long before the cars were in their completed stages. For example the Bugatti Royal under restoration had a severely cracked block. After welding as much as was accessible, the engine was assembled and set on a running stand. Then the engine was hooked up to a tank of KW block seal and the engine was started and ran for several months off and on to get the tiny cracks and crevasses sealed. This particular car actually  used a block from a rail car which was the same as used in the Royals. To this day I'm sure the present owner has no idea how badly cracked and broken that block was.    

I never had heard that particular story of not starting the engines until finished. The cars were mechanically finished and the cars then started and driven around the parking lot checking all adjustments and drivability. 

Where this thought may have started was, once a car was totally finished it received a red star designation. Then all cars had to complete a 500 mile road test. Once the 500 miles was obtained and the car had all the adjustments and issues corrected, Mr. Harrah then drove the car and it had to meet or exceed all original specifications. Once he gave his approval the car then received its "gold star" which was the best of the best. I remember one particular SJ Duesenberg Murphy roadster that had its "red star" and the required 500 miles. Mr. Harrah came out to the collection to take it for its final road test and  it blew a seal inside the super charger. He limped it back smoking like a train. The guys jumped in and redid the seal and got it back running. A few days later Mr. Harrah came back to test drive it . 1st you would need to know Bill Harrah had a need for speed, a very heavy foot and love loud and very fast cars. For example he drove a Ferrari V-12 powered Jeep Wagoneer daily. A super charged Mk 2 Continental, amongst many others.

So he jumps on the throttle of the Duesenberg and again the super charger blows the same seal. Seems none of the mechanics and shop people had the kahuna's to put their foot in it!!!!!. After yet another rebuild they got it right and Bill Harrah could not "blow the seal" and the car got its "gold star" designation. Those days were incredible and for a 24 year kid, it was the ultimate place to work.

 

just remembering, 

 

brasscarguy

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments on the Harrah collection and business.  I remember the Harrah advertisements were my most favorite place in the old original HMN.  I would always drool over what Harrah was willing to sell off and make available to the general old car public.  One car/project I recall for sure were the bits and pieces of a Thomas Flyer.  I think that project is now up and running as part of the Coker collection or maybe it has been resold.  Oh if I only had deep pockets as a 16 year old kid.....  Being that I live across Nevada to the east, I also visited the museum.  I am glad that I have that memory also.  NOTHING like that exists in this modern world.  So many nice survivor cars as well as nice restored cars, it was dizzying to try to take them all in.  Those were the days.  What are some updates from you sleeping speedster builders.  Winter is full on us now so we have no excuses for not getting anything done.  My latest update is simply I have been lucky enough to be helped along by acquiring more of the missing pieces that have been holding me back from having a complete rebuildable early Wisconsin Model "M" "T" head engine core.  This engine will be the heart of my "poor mans" Simplex style speedster that will be up next after the Locomobile. (maybe concurrently)!

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like it is my turn to share just a bit of an update on my American-LaFrance WISCONSIN special.  I have been gathering pieces for more than a few years and am inching closer to having the critical items needed to start the project.  I thought I would share a picture or two of the brass valve cages I just received.  I now have a full set of 8 cages for the Wisconsin 4 cylinder, so from that standpoint, I need not hunt for those pieces anymore, SWEET is the thought.  Wisconsin is actually a good design for the "T" head type engine.  Let me explain, while most other makes of "T" heads had the open intake and exhaust valve stems and springs, as well as the lifters, Wisconsin has two piece cast aluminum castings to enclose the complete valve stem, guide, and lifter to keep out most of the road grime and then to keep any oil mist in place to lubricate the guides and lifters.  The pictures will show you the four valve cages I just received, an example of the cast aluminum valve stem covers and lastly a picture to show you where they fit in relation to the jug.  The two "ribs" around the middle of these castings are to hold a flat spring formed to simply clamp these two castings around the  valve guide and lifter to keep them in place.  I have some spring stock to build these  mentioned springs and actually complete this set of valve covers.  One last side note!  I bought this project as a classic basket case that was the result of an over zealous restorer a long time ago.  It was a complete and restorable unit at that time.  However, no favors were the result for this rig, one missing rod, four missing valve cages and a wealth of other small pieces that simply could not be located after digging and scrounging for almost a year in this dark garage.  As the  Paul Harvey thinking would be in the "rest of the story", resist the urge to make an intact vehicle a basket case unless you are willing to follow through with it!  Now for the bright side, I am about to get a start on the rebuild of the Wisconsin "M" four cylinder, I am trying to not hold my breath however.   🙂

DSC01884.JPG

DSC01885.JPG

DSC01886.JPG

IMG_20181224_132344408.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bit more modern but I have been working on a speedster with my boy that is a 1927 Ford.  I'll be running this one as a flathead (Sherman) although I will install an oil pump and run a distributor.  She is lowered about 6 inches with a combination Z and bent spring in the rear and fabricated brackets in the front. 

 

1.jpg

000.jpg

22.jpg

111.jpg

20181215_155604.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice start!  My brother built a "T" speedster similar to your car.  When he first built it he didn't put a back slope to the seats.  After driving it for a while he didn't like that arrangement at all.  He redid the body and put some back leaning slope to the seats which tended to "keep you in the seat" not so prone to slide out.  Are you going to run any aux. transmission or high speed gears in the rear end?  Your choice of a late  series Model T is a good one to get you all the brake you can get.  Is your engine also a '26-'27?  Share more pictures as you proceed.

Al

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The engine is a '27 so yes it does have the holes for the tranny.  Internally I will remove the mag and drop a bug oil pump onto the back of a cut down A cam.  I still need to put a T nose on the cam, I have a "box" of distributor stuff and hope to make one work with a mechanical advance (manual as well for 12V starting) that I can drop a pertronix kit in and employ a newer cap and rotor.  The oil pump will deliver into the top of the bearings with a bypass to the cam gears thru a drilled out bolt.  If you noticed I already put in an aluminum warford I still need to do the radius rods.  I may use the zenith or I have a Winfield "M" (B size) that I should be able to make work.  The radiator is whippet and headlights Auburn. 

 

This "car" started out as the discard from someone making a hotrod, they took most everything body wise including the frame and replaced the frame with 2x4's leaving most everything mechanical.  My original intention was to use the parts to get my early car running sooner replacing them as I got the correct early parts rebuilt. Things have been delayed here as we had that nasty hurricane not too long ago and got flooded.  Long story short I saw it as too complete and decided to build a speedster, now to get a title. . .

front.jpg

chassis.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...