Jump to content

Speedster Builds.............


Recommended Posts

Well the summer is over, fall is here.  We should all be slowing down for the season to allow more time in the shops to work on our Speedster projects.  What progress has been made during the summer on our various projects?   I have not done much but have procured a few more vital pieces that will allow for my build.  My Wisconsin engine is now next in line for rebuild after we complete the rebuilding of the Locomobile "T" head now in progress.  I should be having a "first start" party on that engine later this fall (or early winter).  Share your updates.........

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Great post.   Hershey, and some other projects on this and other forumshave kind of rekindled interest in the speedster.  It's now behind our A roadster in the que, but took the ad down and hopefully will be inspired further by builds in progress here, T and otherwise. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Steve,

How far along is your 1914 "T" speedster?  What kind of fun "speed" stuff do you have for the mechanical build of the T engine and trans.?  I have a 1922 Dodge touring car that will be restored as a car, but i do have a nice Ricardo head made for Dodge Bros.  It is the only head like that I have seen.  Building an era type speedster is a nice way to save a bunch of parts that would else wise just sit in the barn somewhere.  And, we can all build them how we choose.

Alan

Edited by alsfarms
correction (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Joe and others....

Yes, the Locomobile engine does have a chassis and the rest of the car also.  It is a toy tonneau.  The  Locomobile has been a long term "labor of love" that does not really fit into this Speedster forum.  I decided to post pictures to show a bit of progress on something of a positive nature.  I will post here a factory picture of my Locomobile sports (but not speedster) model for 1909.  Next up, after the Locomobile engine, will be the overhaul of the  Wisconsin 727 CID "T" head four cylinder engine (big brother to the Stutz Bearcat.  By comparison, the Locomobile engine, above shown, is putting out just shy of 300 CID and is a very good performer as proven by the reputation associated with the make.  Joe, what is currently going on with your car?

  Alan

(PS:  If anyone has a cast brass hubcap or two, for an early Locomobile, I need a couple to complete a full set)

The factory picture was taken near the Bridgeport, Conn. Locomobile factory, spring of 1909

DSC01515.JPG

Edited by alsfarms
correction spelling (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oddly enough, my Mitchell engine is just shy of 300 CI also. Its nominal size is 283 but in order to get the cylinder walls straight, I had to go .080 over so I think I'm at about 295 now.

I've been making some progress, albeit it slow at the moment because I have a huge job fixing the windows in my house before it gets really cold. I've probably only got a month left, though if I am lucky it won't snow until after Christmas. Thankfully, I've finished the part that had to be done on a ladder. What is left is a lot of work but at least I don't have to do it 15 feet in the air. I also bought a "new" vertical mill and the temptation is very strong to get it operational before I do much with the car, especially as I bought it because there are operations it will do better than the machine I've been using.

Your Loco body, the front section with the hooded cowel and location of the seat, is just about exactly what I am planning to build although I'll go for a large round tank behind the seats. I'm not sure mine falls into the "speedster" category either as I'm not going for the faux Mercer look... What I'd like to achieve is a fairly conventional custom roadster of the period.

 

Every time I drive through Bridgeport I think of Locomobile and keep telling myself I should get off the highway and go looking for the factory. But, I only go through there on the way to New York or Baltimore and I never have much extra time.

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The body on my Locomobile is transformable, by removing the rear tonneau (made to do that) and have a low roadster type.  The toy tonneau has a lower body than the taller touring cars, hence a bit more sporty as you suggested.  When my body was built, I insisted that it was built as it was originally with the back half removable, (I will probably never remove the back half however).  Your Mitchell must be 4-3/4 X 4-3/4 bore and stroke to be originally about 283 CID.  What brand and size mill did you purchase?

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

More great discussion, nice!

 

Alan, right now my T speedster has a rebuilt but stock engine,  trans & front end.  First mechanical upgrades will likely be brakes, then some minor things, pretty common to improve intake and exhaust on these.  I rely enjoy some of these more sophisticated efforts though!  :)

 

JV, use caution if you do decide to go hunting around Bridgeport! !  Not the safest place to be roaming around nowadays...

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Al.  Yep, ran once on the day I bought it, using sellers coils.  Magneto, runs good.  I have since bought everything to finish up engine room, so to speak, we were going along till the model A bug bit again.   So we picked up a roadster to run around in, and have to replenish the car funds to take up on the T again.  :)

20170617_143059.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Model A Fords are also nice cars.  I have also had several of them.  I am not much of a hot rodder, but I did save back the last and not the best parts from which I was going to build a Buick 215 powered 1929 Model A sport coupe.  I was doing good on that project until a gent just had to have it worse than I did and now its gone.   I like the all whites on your T.  Share a picture of your A if you get a chance.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

What a nice clean Model A roadster.  What is the color called?  I am not well versed on 1930-31 Fords.  Is your car a Deluxe with dual side-mounts and etc.?   Nothing wrong with a Model A Ford!   Some of my best "old Car" experiences have happened in a Model A.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second note.....I should have paid attention to your avatar.  My avatar shows a similar car to what I am building which is a big brother to your Model A roadster.  My big brother roadster is a 1930 LaSalle.  Looks the same as your car, just bigger.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Al.   Love the LaSalle! ! Have you posted any restoration pics?  Those are elegant to say the least.

 

The A is an early 30, so it's a standard,  but the DSM might have been original as the brackets appear to have been there.  I figure some of the early cars might have been accesorized as the deluxe was not available until mid 30 in a roadster.   Color is faded ford maroon,  this pic hides that a bit!  :DAD we are going to avoid too many doo dad's on it when it gets painted and cleaned up a bit more.   Sorry for derailing the speedster thread!  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I see no problem speaking about a little Model A Roadster, it fits the bill of a street speedster to me!  No current pictures of the LaSalle Roadster.  I need to do some work on the cowl, doors, top assembly and fit the windshield.  It seems that I have been distracted by the Locomobile project then the Wisconsin........

Al

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Al,

i purchased the apperson jack rabbit chassis that was advertised on here recently. I am going to use it for the seagrave speedster. I have the valves free on the engine and have begun disassembly of exterior components. I picked up a set of wood spoke wheels from a 1924 graham firetruck that are in super condition I am going to use for the wheels. The transmission and rear drive are still up in the air. As far as the second speedster, the lafrance crankcase will be done at the machine shop in a couple weeks, I have the jugs , Pistons and valves back and ready to go. The lafrance engine has the provision for a third plug per cylinder. I found a twin six distributor so I am going to run 18 plugs as will the seagrave as it has a 12 wire mag. I am trying to decide which way to go with the lafrance as far as chassis. I have the lafrance firetruck chassis but my concern is being able to make it look not so truck like. It will be an interesting winter in the shop to say the least.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you are up to your shoulders in speedster parts!  I am guessing that the Graham fire truck wheels are 24"?  The ignition systems on the early firetrucks was over the top, a lot like the redundancy found in airplane engines.  I noticed, with interest, the Apperson chassis, even though I have plenty of space to stack it in, I sure didn't need another start to a dream project!  Good for you!  Post a couple of update pictures to show us what you are doing.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Marc,  It looks like you have some nice parts.  Are you still thinking of larger wheel size on one of your speedsters?  What size is the throat on the carb. in the picture?  Is it a clean match for your intake manifold?

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

Will do Al.  In short, a little bracket sticks out of the bottom of the guard that sits on lower part of the radiator shell.  Then, 4 little posts with rubber caps push up against the shell, held in place by two brackets that pull the guard against the shell, they attach to the shell via clipping to the holes on the side for the headlight conduit.  It's much simpler than it sounds... :D

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Al,

yes, I would like 27" wheels on the seagrave speedster. I found a set that need respoked but I am concerned they would not be heavy enough for the big engine. I need to get the seagrave engine to a set of scales and see where I am at weight wise first. The carb has a 2 1/2" throat. It's not a direct fit but very close. I have machined an aluminum adapter plate for it. For the seagrave engine I have 3 zenith carbs. Each will feed a pair of cylinders. I am building the manifolds now. Maybe making a lot of headaches for myself carbureting the engine this way, but it will look great.

marc

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If your prospective wheels need to be respoked and if the rims are wide enough, simply have your wheel builder build a wider fello as well as wider spokes to increase the strength of the wheel.  That is what I am going to do for my Wisconsin Special.  What is the diameter of the center hub of that set of wheels you are thinking of using?  On my Special, I am reducing the  OD of the hubs (reduce the truck look) yet make sure the wheel center is strong enough to support the weight of the Special especially during turning when a side load is placed on the wheel center.  I have seen a few pictures of early Stutz racers, with wooden wheels, that had the wheel centers break during turns....the end result is not pretty....not for me and my Special if I can help it!

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seeing the different carbs. that will end up on our Speedsters, made me think to post a few pictures of the Locomobile carb.  Early on, Locomobile built their own carburetors "in house".  This carb is what came on my Locomobile from the factory.  I may use a Carter BB-1 carb. to start with as they are much more user friendly.  I will also post a picture of the BB-1 carb. for comparison.

Al

IMGP3753.JPG

IMGP3754.JPG

IMGP3755.JPG

IMGP4948.JPG

IMGP3756.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites

NOTE:  In order to run the BB-1 Carter, I plan to fabricate an adapter/extension tube that will lower the carb. and get it out of the way of the right hand steering gear box and the Delco dual distributor arrangement. ( It is a bit congested in that area).  Does anyone here have experience with the BB-1 carb.?  I have never run one before.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a few pictures of the carbs. that I will be using on projects.  The smaller Schebler Model "S",  2" throat (with the adapter), will be used on the Wisconsin Special.  The larger Schebler Model "S",  2-1/2" throat, (nickle plated and 4 bolt mounting to intake manifold), will be placed on the original 1913 American-LaFrance 6 cylinder hose car.  I like the Nickle plating and hope I can polish and save the original appearance.  The smaller carb., I am considering having it plated, but no sure decision made yet.

Al

 

DSC01654.JPG

DSC01655.JPG

DSC01656.JPG

DSC01657.JPG

Edited by alsfarms (see edit history)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe,  You get the "Gold Star" for your suggestion that the above item is a Locomobile script radiator cap with the port for the Moto-meter or trophy emblem (per the success of Locomobile #16 of racing fame).  The second part of Joe's suggestion is that most of them were in fact bakelite over a brass threaded blank.  The one shown above is a duplication of an original done in pewter or die cast.  I do not know the difference, can someone illuminate me.  It has the appearance somewhat of aluminum, but is much more heavy.  I will be doing some machine work to thread this cap to fit my radiator (as it has no threads per the reproduction).  I am going to evaluate how I can remove some of the weight during the machining process as this cap is probably double what an original bakelite cap was.  Whats the thoughts here, should I brass plate for appearance or powder coat satin black to give a more true appearance of the bakelite?  I am open to suggestions.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd just keep it as a paperweight. Having had the experience of trying to unscrew a metal radiator cap from a hot radiator I can say it is very unpleasent... actually, if it's hot enough you can't do it until everything cools down. There was an article in the HCCA magazine a few years ago about making a cap like this – in fact, it was a Locomobile cap they made. If you can't find it, I will see if I can find my copy and will scan it for you. I thought it was the most useful bit of information I'd ever seen in that magazine.

 

My first brass car had a brass cap. It wasn't until many years later, when I acquired another unrestored example of the same car that I realized that what I thought was the cap was actually the brass liner for a Bakelite cap. I'm going to turn a cap from phenolic resin and glue in a threaded brass liner but, since Loco had such a distinctive original cap, I'd look into making one of those.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Joe,  I have also considered, using the above shown radiator cap as a pattern, to have a new one cast out of some new, black composition.  I would then chuck it up and size the ID to fit a threaded brass insert that will then fit the Locomobile radiator filler neck.  hmmmmm

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious to see what you other fellows are determining to use for your Speedster ignition systems.  Especially where you plan to go with dual or triple spark ignitions.  Then the follow up question will be what type of dashboard switching will you use.  My original 1913 American-LaFrance hose car has provision for triple ignition but was run from the factory with a two spark system.  I think I will stay with double ignition, unless I stumble across a correct original distributor to fire the third plug.  (Any leads for one here)?  The Locomobile will be run with a two spark system and switch.  The Wisconsin Special will also be run on a two spark system and I think I have a suitable dash switch for that one also.

Al

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a raw start to another type of special, shown in the included pictures.  This particular project is based on a 1923 Nash 692 running gear.  Nash had gone to overhead valves and they were a very nice car for the day.  Per the pictures, you may be able to see a bit of the vision I have for this project.  I wanted a tall disc wheel car, this is it, the Nash in 1923 uses 25" disc wheels and dual side-mount spares.  Engine size is about 278 CID and 85 HP, if I recall correctly.  I have a soft spot for the Kissell Gold Bug styling and also Lagonda styling (per Poroit and Capt. Hastings on PBS).  The back tub (upsides down) gives a near representation of what I would like to build towards which is a bit like a Gold Bug from the front and a Lagonda from the side and back.  Thoughts......

Al

DSC01658.JPG

DSC01659.JPG

DSC01660.JPG

DSC01661.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...