HPOF Question - Pickup Truck

[cbasta]

We are planning to try for HPOF with a 4x4 1988 S10 pickup, with 52k original miles.  It's original, but has aftermarket running boards & a vinyl tonneau cover.  Should those be removed?  Removal of the running boards will leave holes in the lower body seam & wheel trim moldings.  If they have to be removed, I was thinking of doing that on the show field / leave them under the truck.

[61polara]

The deduction should be about the same for the running boards or the body holes.  I would remove the tonneau cover or you could receive a deduction for the cover and what the judges cannot see in the bed.

[cbasta]

Good to know Dave.  I can easily remove the tonneau cover.  Should I leave it's aluminum bracket in place?  It would leave holes too.  A photo is attached.

[61polara]

Again, the holes would most likely be the same deduction as the rails.  Check your engine belts, hoses, hose clamps and battery as well.  The still fall under the general AACA judging standards for correctness in HPOF judging.

Good luck!

[DLynskey]

My brother-in-law has a 1992 F-150 that belonged to my late father-in-law. The paint is peeling, but it has only 50 some thousand miles and is practically untouched. I've thought about having it painted and displaying it in HPOF.

 

I went with my father-in-law when he picked it up at the dealer and it came with an ugly aluminum topper and those hideous (but effective) rough steel running boards, not a factory option but arranged by the dealer because that's what my FIL wanted. It will never earn a trophy equipped that way but is an example of a plain-Jane, utilitarian farm truck as it looked in it's day.

 

(and no whitewalls!!}

 

Don

[Bob Hill]

If you paint the truck you will basically eliminate yourself from HPOF consideration.  

 

Bob

[61polara]

A repaint will not eliminate you from an HPOF certification, but would most likely eliminate you from the higher HPOF Original certification.  With that said, for your age vehicle, you can only receive a maximum of 6 deductions and still receive an HPOF certification.  A deduction could be made for each panel repainted.  If you only repainted the hood and top, that would only be 2 deductions.  The non-factory dealer installed accessories should each be an additional deduction.  All components of the vehicle are evaluated by AACA judging standards for correctness.  This means hoses, belts, clamps and battery will be evaluated for correctness and deductions.

Hope this helps.

[Frantz]

I think it's important to remember too that HPOF is not only about winning trophies but also about being part of historical preservation. I'd be quite proud to own, care for, and show a less than winning vehicle in this category simply knowing it's still a value to folks who "need" to restore theirs. It's very hard to find a truck without accessories added in that period. Ford, I know from my experience, even provides a factory rebate for companies to modify their trucks with certain accessories for "work trucks". I don't think you're hurting the spirit of the class keeping dealer installed options, and maybe we should even consider a rules modification for the HPOF class for such things. (heresy I know)

[Matt Harwood]

I'd still like to see a division in HPOF between early and late cars. I don't know if it matters since there's no first place or last place, but I felt frustrated when I had my 1941 Cadillac on the HPOF field with a bunch of 1980s cars that have simply managed to survive. Keeping an original car original and in good order is a challenge, but finding one that's 76 years old versus one that's 25 years old are two very different things. Maybe it doesn't matter, but if you're going to compete on a show field, it should be more challenging than rolling out grandma's 1991 Oldsmobile Ciera and pretending that it's some remarkable thing that it still exists.

 

That's just me. Feel free to ignore if I'm missing the point of HPOF.

[Bob Hill]

Technically there is already a division - the criteria for certification is different for newer cars than older ones.  The number of deductions can be greater for say a pre-32 car than it can be for a 1960 and newer car

 

Bob

Edited October 11, 2017 by Bob Hill
added form (see edit history)

[Frantz]

Quote

Keeping an original car original and in good order is a challenge, but finding one that's 76 years old versus one that's 25 years old are two very different things.

I agree completely, but aren't you glad someone decided your car was worth keeping original 50 years ago?

[Belvedere]

I felt the HPOF class was better with the 35 year cut-off imposed several years ago.  Prior to that it was initially 45 years old.  A survivor of 35 or 45 years in remarkable condition is, well, more remarkable than one of 25 years.  But that ship has sailed.

 

Having said that, there were some original 25 to 30 year old vehicles displayed at Hershey in HPOF that were very remarkable indeed.  The S-10 pick-up that is the initial subject of this thread being one of them and very deserving of the HPOF badge it received.  And that is as it should be.  My "rub" shall we say, are the late model antiques from the '80's and early '90's that are displayed with barely a shred of dignity.  Highlights include shredded upholstery on the driver's seat and the top of the back seat from baking in the sun, duct tape across the top of the windshield to stop a leak, foil tape covering a rusted rear bumper, and so much surface rust on the paint you couldn't polish it if you wanted to.  Sometimes the best thing on these cars is the HPOF badge itself!  I feel this type of HPOF rewarded vehicle shines a bad light on AACA.  On the other hand, a vehicle approaching 100 years with the same maladies is a different story indeed, and deserves the award.

 

If granny's '91 Olds still looks showroom new because she only took it out of the garage on Sundays, then I'm impressed.  If it's a clunker that always sat on the street and looks like it was pulled from the junk yard, then NO!   Presently, my HPOF car will stay home because of the direction this class has taken in some cases. 

[Frantz]

I've yet to take the HPOF judging school, so hopefully someone with a little more experience can chime in, however, when we went through the initial judging school they explained HPOF in a way that fits the title. Historic preservation of original features, not so much "a survivor .... in remarkable condition". The example they used was a very old an ratty looking Oakland at Hershey a few years ago. The point made and taken to heart was that this car should NOT be restored because it preserves several factory standards. Think of this scenario:

A fellow enthusiast comes up to a freshly restored Oakland. "That looks amazing! Where ever did you find those running boards, I haven't been able to find a good set anywhere?". "Thank you so much, it took a long time to put it together. I couldn't find the running boards either so I found shop XYZ who was able to make them for me, here is their number". That's very friendly helpful stuff right? Well if all the Oaklands of that model went that route, we'd start looking at those repos as what was original. No one noticed at first that the groves were off. Now we've lost out on how the factory did it because everyone wanted "new" ones. 

Now it's unlikely we'd completely lose history on any but the rarest cars, but cars that are being preserved as original greatly help folks like me. I'm 34 and most of the antique cars I've been exposed to have been restored to some degree. It's harder for me to catch things that aren't right. Also the folks that want to keep their car original would otherwise not have a place to go on the snowfield for AACA and get any recognition.

Another way to look at it is considering the point classes. Most cars I've looked at or judged between say 27k and 27s are all better suited for HPOF. Most of those entered do end up winning pointed awards, but there isn't really any effort going into them to gain points for the most part. People are taking pride in their all original cars. Unfortunately sometimes they get upset when they lose points for condition. They get themselves in a spot where they are changing original parts on a very nice car in order to get a few more points, but now we just lost a factory 40 year old belt, or a factory muffler with some surface rust. No one is making restoration quality 1992 mufflers. You might think that's a good thing, but eventually, that's what will be sought after for future members.

[A. Ballard 35R]

I am not familiar with HPOF standards so please advise accordingly. I still have the original battery, floor mats, and many other parts for my 1962 car that I bought new and has under 34,000 miles on it. I also purchased many NOS parts when the car was fairly new and I realized that I would be keeping it. For example, should I drive the car on to the field and then switch parts to have the inoperable originals such as such as battery, hoses, etc.installed ? What about documented NOS parts with original dealer tags?

[61polara]

Matt - If you're talking about Hershey, there is an exception to the regular field lay out there.  At all other National shows, HPOF cars are placed in year order grouped by the certification they are seeking.  At Hershey, due to the size of the show, HPOF cars are parked in the order they arrive.  It's a staffing and manpower issue.

 

Ballard - Batteries, hoses, clamps, belts and tires are all considered maintenance items which can be replaced with no deduction.  The replacement must be correct for the year and car as in class judging.  

[ex98thdrill]

First off, to the original poster of this thread, I saw that S-10 at Hershey as it was going out and it's a nice looking truck.  I had a Ford Ranger of that same vintage that I drove as a daily driver back in the day.  Those Vortec V-6's were pretty good.  I know a few people that have put over 200,000 miles on those trucks.

 

In terms of the HPOF??

 

I like the 25 year rule and I enjoy the class.  It's a great way to get people into AACA at an affordable price.  For a younger person who is living on limited funds, it allows them to get into AACA, participate, without having the large expense of restoring a vehicle, buying a trailer to haul it, and then spending $50,000 on a vehicle heavy enough to pull that car trailer with the vehicle in it.  If someone puts a scratch in it, it isn't the end of the world, where when it happens to a restored vehicle getting point judged, it's a BIG deal.

 

From a restorer's standpoint, if you're looking to restore a vehicle, in addition to the AACA Library, the HPOF class is a great way to be used as a reference point when you're trying to find out what goes where, how it was done and the way it should be.

 

In terms of paint jobs and HPOF??  I have an HPOF vehicle with the original tab that has been repainted.  In my case the vehicle was built in 1949 and it was repainted in 1982.  After 36 years there are scratches and paint chips and it isn't as pretty as if it were restored.

 

Can you repaint the vehicle and get through HPOF??  Maybe, maybe not, but if you can't get through HPOF there's always the DPC class.

[Marty Roth]

Our 1937 Buick 80C Roadmaster Phaeton (Convertible Sedan) is now in her Eighty-First (81st) Model Year since the 2018s are in the showrooms.

 

The big Buick has been awarded her HPOF as well as HPOF ORIGINAL at a subsequent meet and still has much of her good looks, most of her original paint, her original top and headliner, complete interior, as well as all of her mechanical components. When we aquired her almost ten years ago she did need some freshening but showed just over 7,000 miles, much of it I believe in low gear as a New York City Parade car for Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia with the majority of the miles run up between Gracie Mansion and Wall Street for Ticker Tape Parades. It was, as I understand, driven to Flushing Meadows in the NYC Borough of Queens to officially open the 1939-1940 New York World's Fair.

 

We plan to keep her as original as possible, for as long as possible with maintenance items carefully noted with respect to any potential replacement. The wiring harness was replaced when a correctly created one was sourced. We also repainted the wheels when the 70+ year-old original tires and tubes were replaced since this is a "driver" and has completed Glidden and Founders Tours, just crossing the 13,000 mile mark last week.

 

I hope other folks get to experience an essentially original 80 year old driver-quality at some point - it is a fantastic experience, and as so many of us say:

 

THEY ARE ONLY ORIGINAL ONCE !!

[bobg1951chevy]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:18 PM, Bob Hill said:

Technically there is already a division - the criteria for certification is different for newer cars than older ones.  The number of deductions can be greater for say a pre-32 car than it can be for a 1960 and newer car

 

Bob

Regarding my '69,  and looking for HPOA certification, which compliance table would be used for my car ? 

It has not been on a judging field.