CBoz

Great Classic Sedans

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

I would not call that a great Classic Sedan.

 

Would you consider a 1925 series 33 as a classic?

Edited by CatBird (see edit history)

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Bill........My definition of a Great Classic is not merely a run of the mill CCCA Classic. Some would call me a car snob. As Series 80 & 33 Pierce are good cars. They don’t rate”Great” in my book, and I have owned a bunch of Pierce Arrow’s over the years. To earn the tag “Great” in my book, the car would have to be built from 1931-1934; with a few possible cars from 1929 & 1930. Think one off custom bodied cars.......Rolls Royce Phantom II, Packard Custom Dietrich, Franklin Hershey Murphy Bodied J, etc. 

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10 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Do two door sedans fit this thread?  Seems to be an unusual style for Full Classics, likely due to the fact open cars and coupes are sporty, and sedans are formal.  Downmarket, Ford sold tons of them as a price leader and fairly utilitarian car.  I am aware of some two door sedans, PA I think sold a few, but not in great numbers.

 

Being a fan of the Full Classic era Studebaker President my favorite is the very low production 1932 Studebaker President St. Regis Brougham. 

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I know where there’s a Pierce with the same body as that Studebaker in real rough shape.   

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Pierce Arrow called that two door model the “Club Brougham”, and it was very popular in the day. It was ther most popular seller after the standard 5/7 passenger four door sedan. Interestingly for Pierce Arrow surviving cars of 1932 there are more Club Brougham known to survive than the 5/7 passenger sedan. Here is a photo of a great sedan from Pierce.

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Fantastic PA Ed.

 

Tough sometimes chassis lend themselves better to the balance a 4 door club gives.  The Stude is a great looking car as well, always thought the big doors needed a little getting used to.  ☺

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12 hours ago, edinmass said:

Some would call me a car snob.

 

Some?

 

The model 41 Lebaron is one of the best looking prewar sedans every built.  But I would hope that all catalog customs would be great looking, otherwise who would have been paying the premium?

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Yep, I passed on that car too, although I talked to the then-owner a few times, and was trying to find the missing engine and radiator/shell.  Turns out the buyer actually found the original pieces.

 

I made a fairly good offer on the car, considering missing engine, but seller was fairly firm at his (still reasonable) price.

 

Oh well, can't kiss all the girls....

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Dave,  do you know the story of how the engine went one way and the car went the other?   This is the only berline they built.  I wonder when the 32 dash was installed?

IMG_3213.JPG

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Yes, the car had some oddities.

 

The picture you posted is an older one, when car was all together, I believe it sold at an auction and ended up in California, which is where it was when advertised for sale.  My understanding is that there are 5 such bodies in existence mounted on Pierce chassis....

 

I've heard two stories about the missing parts, one from the seller when I discussed the car with him, one from the buyer at a later date.  So, I'll tell both, but don't know the real facts.

 

When I asked the seller about the missing parts, which I think included engine, transmission, hood, and complete radiator/radiator shell assembly, he told me that the car had been sent to a restoration shop, and somewhere in transit the parts had been stolen.  That was all he would tell me.  With the rarity of the Model 41, it was a huge part of the decision on my part to make a lower offer, but not commit to the asking price.  Meanwhile, I was talking to one of the well know Pierce parts suppliers, an engine and transmission was available, maybe a hood, but the radiator assembly was an unknown.

 

The car was actually on the market for a while.  When I say a while, it was maybe two or three months, if I remember correctly, which was unusual for a car of this caliber.  Again, I think some people were scared off by missing parts. 

 

Remember, though, and this is the part that I just wasn't thinking clearly about, this was a custom body, and as such it could just as easily go on a Packard chassis.  So, there were options available, IF you bought the car.

 

After a while, a well known Packard collector heard of the car, and lost little time purchasing it.  I talked to him not long after he acquired the car, and he said all the missing pieces were found.  Here's where MY memory is a little unclear, I seem to remember him saying that the missing pieces were found in other buildings on the seller's property.  That sequence of events would baffle me, surely the seller knew whether he had the parts or not, and unless he had another car he needed the parts for, why would he hide them?  Another little voice in my head says no, the buyer tracked down the missing parts elsewhere and bought them separately from the car.  Obviously the buyer would know, I just don't have a clear recollection.

 

Either way, the missing parts were reunited with the car, and in fact it was displayed last year at the Pierce Arrow Society annual meet, although it wasn't in running condition.  My heart broke a little when I saw it, glad it has a good home, just wish that good home was mine!  I've always wanted a custom body car, and that was probably my best chance....

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The car is now owned by a major collector friend of mine. He’s a great guy and has gasoline running through his veins. He has the car in  his line for rotation, but I think it’s four or five back from the top of the list. If he gets to it, it will be stunning. Ed

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A friend's 1930 Franklin Dietrich Speedster. Not necessarily what you would expect from the name, but I always thought the proportions were beautiful on this car.

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The Franklin Speedster's are beautiful cars, as mentioned the name throws you off.  I have a friend not far from me who owns one. Is that Dan's and Anne's car, by any chance?? 

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2 hours ago, trimacar said:

The Franklin Speedster's are beautiful cars, as mentioned the name throws you off.  I have a friend not far from me who owns one. Is that Dan's and Anne's car, by any chance?? 

 

Yes, it is. As you know, Dan and Anne are lifelong Franklin family. The car couldn't be in better hands.

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47 minutes ago, CBoz said:

 

Yes, it is. As you know, Dan and Anne are lifelong Franklin family. The car couldn't be in better hands.

 

Yes, they moved to a place about 40 miles from me, I was lucky enough to meet them and now consider them good friends!  Quite a Franklin history in their family,  as you mention.....great couple with some really nice cars...

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CBoz,  ask the owner of the Franklin if he bought it in Columbus, Ohio in the late 1990's.  Len Finelli had one of those the same maize color.  It was entirely original and unrestored.  He had a Kruse auction on his property and it sold for around 22K.  I have wondered what happened to it.    

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I think that one came from owls head auction around 4 years ago.  I should buy Mike West's car but it's in need of a full restoration.  Dave, that's a custom bodied car

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It is indeed the one from Owl's Head.  Unfortunately I have little information about its history other than it spent a long time near Cambridge, OH.  The previous owner has since passed.

 

Dan

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That may be the same car then.   Cambridge is less than an hour east of Columbus.   If John M. pops in again he may know for sure.    Finelli had his car listed in the 1970 CCCA directory, so he owned it over 25 years.   He was very old and in declining health at the time o the auction too.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by K8096 (see edit history)

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Yes,  the 1930 Franklin 147 Speedster Sedan (jury is till out on whether a Dietrich body by Dietrich production or made by say "Walker" under license - hard to say as there are zero pictures of any being produced) was owned by Len  Finelli.   Len may have lived in Cambridge, but when I saw car it was in Columbus proper (right in the thick of things) - he had a little museum and was sort of a "I have this, but I will not show it to anyone" kind of guy.   Museum was on the same street as fellow who we knew with a 1930 LaSalle and .....  When in Len Finelli's auction this particular car is probably one of the finer of survivor Franklins to show up at any point in time (and has been carefully upgraded since auctioned). 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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