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Great Classic Sedans


CBoz
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18 hours ago, alsancle said:

Did anybody make an unattractive club sedan in the 30-36 era?

If you like club sedans, the answer to the question is NO.  And, this close coupled RR was one of the top 10 most expensive cars for 1932.  Unfortunately, a very "dark" year economically for Rolls-Royce of America, Inc., though dark times caused them to have to "pull out the stops" as they say to generate sales - some of their most attractive cars were at the tail end of production.  You get interesting features too such as concealed upper door hinges, slopped windshield, and lower door sills.

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Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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As we are considering club sedans and close coupled sedans (5 passengers), can we consider Town Cars? Our 1934 Brewster Ford. Once owned by coloratura Lily Pons, principal soprano for Metropolitan Opera for about 30 years.  A dramatic Brewster body over a stretched (15") Ford chassis.

 

I fell in love with this car as I was first being attracted to classic cars in 2012 (I am a very recent collector/addict!) at an open house by Truett Cathy, Founder of Chick Fil A. I followed the car until I was able to purchase this car in 2017. I found in the trunk two ribbons showing "Pebble Beach Tour" and "Pebble Beach 2nd Place 1998"

 

The closed compartment seats five plus the chauffers compartment. The car has a shorter wheelbase 127" giving more agility in New York City traffic.

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21 hours ago, CatBird said:

As we are considering club sedans and close coupled sedans (5 passengers), can we consider Town Cars? Our 1934 Brewster Ford. Once owned by coloratura Lily Pons, principal soprano for Metropolitan Opera for about 30 years.  A dramatic Brewster body over a stretched (15") Ford chassis.

 

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A familiar looking back seat - one of the things I was quick to note is the the Brewster Rolls-Royce is one of the most comfortable 1930's cars I have ever sat in (and that says alot as most 30's cars are not all that comfortable).   Brewster knew how to build a seat cushion.  By the way, friends have a 1939 Packard Twelve formal sedan that was owned by Lily Pons too.

 

 

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Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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I don´t think anyone has included this Sedan yet ---- a Peerless V-16 Prototype - Murphy Body.

This is XD#3, one of 3 or 4 Peerless V-12 and V-16 machines driven from Ohio to California with Hayes bodies to be rebodied  by Murphy.

After it was provided to a Cleveland couple.............Mr. and Mrs. Scott Montgomery...........for their wedding and honeymoon to Saratoga Springs, New York in 1932, it was walled-up in the Peerless factory for years. It re-appeared at the 1946 Glidden Revival Tour...then was donated to what´s now the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum by James Bohannon at about the same time the Peerless Motor Car Corporation records were given to the Cleveland Public Library for safekeeping: 1946.

 

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Photo: Hemmings

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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On 9/18/2017 at 6:03 PM, m-mman said:

I am an admirer of a great sedan also. It was the target body style for a Classic era buyer.  

I feel that a great sedan is as much about the interior as the exterior. Open cars look sporty but a closed car has to transmit a certain comfort or elegant to its occupants sitting inside. Sadly interiors dont seem to receive the appreciation and photo documentation they deserve. 

 

Trimming an open car in smooth hides seems to be lacking in creativity.

While a closed car is a display board for rolls, pleats, cubby holes, map pockets, arm rests,  etc. (yes some of these existed on open cars) as well as the use of things like broad lace or other embroidery. A closed car is where the art of the trimmer really shines. 

 

 

 

I just saw this and could not agree with you more. Even with the Classics, practical concerns regarding the weather limited what could be done in many open cars. Really loved the pictures you posted of your car as well.

Edited by CBoz (see edit history)
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On 9/19/2017 at 12:31 AM, m-mman said:

Oops! you are correct. This is what happens when you try to find an image while you are at work.

 

While the scan is not the best, here is the interior of a 1927 P1 town car by Clark of Wolverhampton commissioned by a director of Woolworths. This interior would never appear in an open car.

 

And the original broad lace over mohair in my basic Fisher body 1929 Cad town sedan.

 

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I love both open cars and sedans, especially the one above. Here are some closeups with our 1937 Lincoln Willoughby> I really like the tapestry and brocade above.

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Edited by CatBird (see edit history)
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Here's the 1937 Lincoln K that was owned by Richard Doepke in Cincinnati.  A nice car, but it needed the sides painted black to match the rest of the car and the blue cloisonné medallion on the radiator grille moved up a few inches.  

 

  

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10 hours ago, K8096 said:

Here's the 1937 Lincoln K that was owned by Richard Doepke in Cincinnati.  A nice car, but it needed the sides painted black to match the rest of the car and the blue cloisonné medallion on the radiator grille moved up a few inches.  

 

  

 

 

 

Thank you so very MUCH! Love finding sibling cars!

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Why do some 1937 Model K Lincolns have a split windshield? Others, like ours, has one sheet of glass. The same year Doepke has a split? Is it a limo or town car flat windshield?

 

Billy Bathgate (movie)
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The Cheap Detective 1978

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Our 1937 Willoughby Limo
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Edited by CatBird (see edit history)
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To answer the question as to why some late 30s Lincoln Ks have a split windshield versus a single piece of glass the answer is different body builders.   LeBaron and Judkins usually had a split windshield, while Brunn was usually one piece.   Willoughby had both.   The Doepke car is a Judkins, so it’s actually not a sister car to your Willoughby.    The factory bodied sedans all had split windshields.   

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Do two door sedans fit this thread?  Seems to be an unusual style for Full Classics, likely due to the fact open cars and coupes are sporty, and sedans are formal.  Downmarket, Ford sold tons of them as a price leader and fairly utilitarian car.  I am aware of some two door sedans, PA I think sold a few, but not in great numbers.

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT
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6 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Do two door sedans fit this thread?  Seems to be an unusual style for Full Classics, likely due to the fact open cars and coupes are sporty, and sedans are formal.  Downmarket, Ford sold tons of them as a price leader and fairly utilitarian car.  I am aware of some two door sedans, PA I think sold a few, but not in great numbers.

Seeing how I started this thread, I give two-door sedans my blessing ;)

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A great 2-Door Classic Sedan. This 1925 Pierce-Arrow Series 80 Coach was for sale at Motoexotica in Missouri.

It must have been a long time ago, with a price of only $21,500 listed on the Car-from-UK site(possibly an unsuccessful auction bid). I always wanted one of those models, with the 288 Cu. In. aluminum-crankcase six. Competition to this model:

  • Cadillac V63 Series Coach
  • Lincoln Model L 
  • Marmon 74 Series Brougham Coupe
  • Packard Series 6 Club Sedan
  • Peerless Models 6-72 and 8-67 4-Passenger Coupe
Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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Bill........My definition of a Great Classic is not merely a run of the mill CCCA Classic. Some would call me a car snob. As Series 80 & 33 Pierce are good cars. They don’t rate”Great” in my book, and I have owned a bunch of Pierce Arrow’s over the years. To earn the tag “Great” in my book, the car would have to be built from 1931-1934; with a few possible cars from 1929 & 1930. Think one off custom bodied cars.......Rolls Royce Phantom II, Packard Custom Dietrich, Franklin Hershey Murphy Bodied J, etc. 

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10 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Do two door sedans fit this thread?  Seems to be an unusual style for Full Classics, likely due to the fact open cars and coupes are sporty, and sedans are formal.  Downmarket, Ford sold tons of them as a price leader and fairly utilitarian car.  I am aware of some two door sedans, PA I think sold a few, but not in great numbers.

 

Being a fan of the Full Classic era Studebaker President my favorite is the very low production 1932 Studebaker President St. Regis Brougham. 

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Pierce Arrow called that two door model the “Club Brougham”, and it was very popular in the day. It was ther most popular seller after the standard 5/7 passenger four door sedan. Interestingly for Pierce Arrow surviving cars of 1932 there are more Club Brougham known to survive than the 5/7 passenger sedan. Here is a photo of a great sedan from Pierce.

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12 hours ago, edinmass said:

Some would call me a car snob.

 

Some?

 

The model 41 Lebaron is one of the best looking prewar sedans every built.  But I would hope that all catalog customs would be great looking, otherwise who would have been paying the premium?

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Yep, I passed on that car too, although I talked to the then-owner a few times, and was trying to find the missing engine and radiator/shell.  Turns out the buyer actually found the original pieces.

 

I made a fairly good offer on the car, considering missing engine, but seller was fairly firm at his (still reasonable) price.

 

Oh well, can't kiss all the girls....

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Yes, the car had some oddities.

 

The picture you posted is an older one, when car was all together, I believe it sold at an auction and ended up in California, which is where it was when advertised for sale.  My understanding is that there are 5 such bodies in existence mounted on Pierce chassis....

 

I've heard two stories about the missing parts, one from the seller when I discussed the car with him, one from the buyer at a later date.  So, I'll tell both, but don't know the real facts.

 

When I asked the seller about the missing parts, which I think included engine, transmission, hood, and complete radiator/radiator shell assembly, he told me that the car had been sent to a restoration shop, and somewhere in transit the parts had been stolen.  That was all he would tell me.  With the rarity of the Model 41, it was a huge part of the decision on my part to make a lower offer, but not commit to the asking price.  Meanwhile, I was talking to one of the well know Pierce parts suppliers, an engine and transmission was available, maybe a hood, but the radiator assembly was an unknown.

 

The car was actually on the market for a while.  When I say a while, it was maybe two or three months, if I remember correctly, which was unusual for a car of this caliber.  Again, I think some people were scared off by missing parts. 

 

Remember, though, and this is the part that I just wasn't thinking clearly about, this was a custom body, and as such it could just as easily go on a Packard chassis.  So, there were options available, IF you bought the car.

 

After a while, a well known Packard collector heard of the car, and lost little time purchasing it.  I talked to him not long after he acquired the car, and he said all the missing pieces were found.  Here's where MY memory is a little unclear, I seem to remember him saying that the missing pieces were found in other buildings on the seller's property.  That sequence of events would baffle me, surely the seller knew whether he had the parts or not, and unless he had another car he needed the parts for, why would he hide them?  Another little voice in my head says no, the buyer tracked down the missing parts elsewhere and bought them separately from the car.  Obviously the buyer would know, I just don't have a clear recollection.

 

Either way, the missing parts were reunited with the car, and in fact it was displayed last year at the Pierce Arrow Society annual meet, although it wasn't in running condition.  My heart broke a little when I saw it, glad it has a good home, just wish that good home was mine!  I've always wanted a custom body car, and that was probably my best chance....

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The car is now owned by a major collector friend of mine. He’s a great guy and has gasoline running through his veins. He has the car in  his line for rotation, but I think it’s four or five back from the top of the list. If he gets to it, it will be stunning. Ed

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2 hours ago, trimacar said:

The Franklin Speedster's are beautiful cars, as mentioned the name throws you off.  I have a friend not far from me who owns one. Is that Dan's and Anne's car, by any chance?? 

 

Yes, it is. As you know, Dan and Anne are lifelong Franklin family. The car couldn't be in better hands.

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47 minutes ago, CBoz said:

 

Yes, it is. As you know, Dan and Anne are lifelong Franklin family. The car couldn't be in better hands.

 

Yes, they moved to a place about 40 miles from me, I was lucky enough to meet them and now consider them good friends!  Quite a Franklin history in their family,  as you mention.....great couple with some really nice cars...

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CBoz,  ask the owner of the Franklin if he bought it in Columbus, Ohio in the late 1990's.  Len Finelli had one of those the same maize color.  It was entirely original and unrestored.  He had a Kruse auction on his property and it sold for around 22K.  I have wondered what happened to it.    

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