Jump to content

Great Classic Sedans


CBoz
 Share

Recommended Posts

IF I did this correctly,  you will see two '38 Packard V-12's  (480 cu. in.  "Cadillac V-16 killers....!). ..!

 

The one on the left is a good compromise between an open car and a closed one - it is a Brunn,  obviously with the rear portion "collapsible" down.    I had a chance to buy either that one or its twin in 1956,  but it needed paint and upholstery, and anyway...I didn't have the $250 it would have taken to buy it. 

 

The one on the right went for twenty five bucks in 1956....which I did have...so it became mine  ( needed tires and a battery, so maybe it wasn't THAT good a deal...?).   It is a "production" body...a Formal Sedan.  ( I believe 6 were made during the 1938 production run).  I drove it regularly until the 1970's,  when I pulled it apart for a re-paint and engine over-haul - it was out of service for a couple of months.    Then it went back into service - it continues to do for me what  Packard V-12's were designed to do! 

 

To quote the admittedly risqué advertising Packard put out for the Formal Sedan of that year.....there is no substitute for  weight and size when it comes to motoring comfort, pleasure, and safety....."

 

No question that open cars seem to appeal more to some folks.   Not to me !

 

Since I actually do drive mine at regular intervals,  which I continue to do some 60+ years after I bought it..... I admit I like my creature comforts. 

 

Example.....  It was snowing...windy....&  below freezing driving back from a restaurant  (on the freeway, doing 75 mph +)  at the Annual Meeting in Reno of the CCCA earlier this year,    so having a closed car with a heater is not the worst thing in the world.....!

IMG_8377_8x10 (1).jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, the 1932 RR Phantom I Springfield Dover Sedan makes its first public appearance in 36 years and first time really run in 18 years - at Dayton Concours d'Elegance this weekend !  I have put in 8 to 14 hours a day for two months and a week to get it out onto a showfield.  Original Owner was Valeria Langeloth of the current The Jacob & Valeria Langeloth Foundation

21551674_10155889594567189_1648171032584574339_o.jpg

21587040_10155892616002189_8279730080917141395_o.jpg

21686762_10155892616992189_3894146381541067000_o.jpg

21752673_10155892617437189_7492850854700955343_o.jpg

21640942_10155892617952189_3026825735742079648_o.jpg

21752875_10155892618332189_8828711555658261019_o.jpg

21753004_10155892619707189_417291772801671803_o.jpg

21752756_10155892627497189_4214175713502240565_o.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am an admirer of a great sedan also. It was the target body style for a Classic era buyer.  

I feel that a great sedan is as much about the interior as the exterior. Open cars look sporty but a closed car has to transmit a certain comfort or elegant to its occupants sitting inside. Sadly interiors dont seem to receive the appreciation and photo documentation they deserve. 

 

Trimming an open car in smooth hides seems to be lacking in creativity.

While a closed car is a display board for rolls, pleats, cubby holes, map pockets, arm rests,  etc. (yes some of these existed on open cars) as well as the use of things like broad lace or other embroidery. A closed car is where the art of the trimmer really shines. 

 

Does anybody have preferences between; wool? or mohair? Bedford cord? (maybe exotic furs?)  

You might kick your shoes off in  the back of a closed car, but not an open car. Were mouton carpets used during the classic era? (dont know that I have seen them) 

 

What about full leather interiors in closed Classics? 

Leather is the reflexive indicator of 'luxury' today, but it always seems out of place on an authentic closed Full Classic. 

 

The cabinetry is another place to admire a quality closed Classic. 

duesenberg_j_295_2531_town_car_lwb_by_murphy_5.jpeg

TwentyGrand_2_1000.jpg

381861-1000-0.jpg

Edited by m-mman (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, m-mman said:

What about full leather interiors in closed Classics? 

Leather is the reflexive indicator of 'luxury' today, but it always seems out of place on an authentic closed Full Classic. 

 

 

Friends have a 1930 Packard 740 Club sedan that had leather in it from new (all be it main part of headliner is cloth) - kind of neat car.  A 1929 to 1932 Franklin Speedster could also have leather as do I believe most Transcontinental Sedans. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Opps! you are correct. This is what happens when you try to find an image while you are at work.

 

While the scan is not the best, here is the interior of a 1927 P1 town car by Clark of Wolverhampton commissioned by a director of Woolworths. This interior would never appear in an open car.

 

And the original broad lace over mohair in my basic Fisher body 1929 Cad town sedan.

 

rolls interior.jpg

$_58.JPG

$_59.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Johan Boltendal said:

John   what a fantastic car, I love the colors, a job well done and a fine car to drive .  regards Johan

 

Thanks !  It is interesting as I have never been a fan of green cars and I expected people not to like it, but Sunday 200 plus people complimented its colors matched to countless compliments about car being so impressive.  And,  another 100 saw it in garage over past two months with same reaction.  I did have a few people criticize me for having a Desmo Scottie by the name of "McIntosh" ornament on the car, but it is period correct from 1929 via PG Woodhouse Wooster & Jeeves books.  

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Walt G said:

John, congratulations on getting the RR back on the road, it looks wonderful.

Walt

Thanks Walt !  I spent most of the the past two months and a week focusing on it mechanically - nothing really too wrong, but with any car that sits for extended time you have an extensive laundry list of items to rebuild or replace.  And, Vintage Garage has been a true blessing, as has Fiennes.  The cosmetics came out super well too - the car had not really been cleaned in 20 plus years and I anticipated the worse all be it turns out climate controlled storage for past 35 years made cleanup easier than anticipated. The most difficult parts to clean up were several pieces of brown German Silver.   And,  I polished all the aluminum under hood - that took some elbow grease as I doubt anyone had ever cleaned with any dedication (again  good storage matched to spending its entire life in gorgeous garages certainly helps too.  What was interesting is that I have never been a fan of green cars, but I literally bet 200 plus people told me they were in love with its colors.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^ The famous 20-Grand, part of the JB Nethercutt collection. It's an absolutely exquisite example of modern machinery. It's my favorite. I've seen it in person and photos cannot do it justice.

It had suffered some damage during the Sylmar quake in 1994 when a large mirror in the salon where it was kept fell on it. It was skillfully repaired by the artisans employed by Mr. Nethercutt that maintain the collection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John, what you state about your RR is nearly identical to what I have gone through with my 733 Packard since I bought it in June 2016!  Excellent/ideal  storage conditions (car was restored in 1980) but needed a thorough mechanical check out as it was very rarely used (previous owner said it was "to pristine" to drive) . Byron York and his crew in Ct. did the mechanicals. I did the cleaning - and like you, spent countless hours doing so. Car looked wonderful until you saw a 1/4 inch of neglected dust/grime from 40 years laying on every horizontal surface, cleaning the canvas top (it is a touring car) worked well but took hours and i followed the instructions that Eric Harrtz gave to do so that were printed in an article he wrote in the New England Region CCCA publication which was just published in the CCCA Bulletin.

the first time driving it down the road which only came this past June made me think - yep, this is what old cars are all about, going down the road and looking over that hood, hearing the tranny "sing". It's all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, alsancle said:

The greatest American closed car of all time (in my opinion) winning by a hair over the Car of the Dome.

Duesenberg SJ, Twenty Grand (1933).jpg

 

I suppose I have to agree with you, but it goes without saying I wouldn't kick either car out of my garage for leaking oil! ;)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CBoz said:

 

I suppose I have to agree with you, but it goes without saying I wouldn't kick either car out of my garage for leaking oil! ;)

 

 

I have long since moved away from Southern California,  and my "contacts'  with JB and his staff.   In the years that I knew him and them,   my recollection was his cars were not allowed to leak oil......!

 

As a side-note,   I wonder if there is anyone reading this who is part of the "old bunch".....who remembers......the medium-dark-blue  '37 Packard V-12 Club Sedan now beautifully restored and on display.......and our wild ride in it down Western Avenue just before one of my equally wild friends sold it to Jack...?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

O.K....I got caught......just got a phone call from one of J.B.'s old employees from the 'old days'.   Reminded me....Of course he knows that I know that the older type rear-main-bearing seals on just about everything pre-war weren't all that effective,  so the earlier the car and its technology, the more the oil-drip......Yes..I know they had drip-pans at San Sylmar.....!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

West, the car above you posted is not a Murphy clear vision sedan.  This is:  

 

Image result for murphy clear vision

 

I remember this car when it was in the car corral at Hershey 2 years in a row for $600,000.   That was probably in the late 1990's.   It's been repainted the same color again since.  

 

What West posted is something far more special.  While it is a Murphy, the doors go into the roof.  I believe two like it were built.  One LWB and one SWB.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Murphy built two similar cars.  The other car was a George Whittel J218 one off with all his usual individual features on it.

 

2243_J-218_3.JPG

2243_J-218_2.JPG

 

Apparently, Whittel was the original owner of both of these sedans. Can that be correct?

http://www.duesey186.com/Datasheets/Model_J_Index/frm2243.htm

http://www.duesey186.com/Datasheets/Model_J_Index/frm2305.htm

1929 Murphy.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, George bought both of those sedans, on the same day, one off designs by Franklin Hershey. Body by Murphy. The doors top edge go up into the roof like a modern sedan. I must admit, I prefer either of the two Murphy's over the twenty grand. The roof on the 20 is just too heavy for my taste. Not that I wouldn't like to own it! The Blue Murphy was done in a lime green and displayed at Pebble about ten years ago, then painted a dark blue after it changed hands. The white and black car has been ought of site for better than thirty five years.............. both of them are great cars with wonderful and  colorful histories. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here the twin to the black and white sedan, "the little brother Coupe" if you like. I think it's the most expensive J to ever change hands at a public auction, ten million, quite a while ago.

IMG_3887.PNG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:03 PM, m-mman said:

What about full leather interiors in closed Classics? 

Leather is the reflexive indicator of 'luxury' today, but it always seems out of place on an authentic closed Full Classic. 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't feel leather is 'out of place' in a chauffer driven limousine.  In the case of a partitioned limousine, leather (usually black) was almost always reserved for the front chauffer's compartment, while the rear seating area behind the partition always got the opulent wool broadcloth interior.

 

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leather was cheaper than wool back in the day. And why not let the chauffeur sweat a bit........after all, he was just the help. 

 

My  1935 Pierce Arrow club sedan came with leather front and rear, for the Vanderbuilt family at their Newport Rhode Island cottage. They left it to the chauffeur after they no longer wanted the home. I purchased it from his son in November of 2001.

IMG_3909.PNG

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
5 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Was the Lincoln K a Cincinnati owned car - fellow's last name was Doepke ?

 

The last name was Truett Cathy of Chick Fil A, before that it was Dennis Hastert, US Speaker of the House. When was Doepke a possible owner? What year? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, K8096 said:

The car in Cincy was black with silver sides, the car pictured above is dark green.  Not the same car.   

 

 

Yes, our car is Brewster Green. It was used by the American Ambassador in Australia in WWII. General Douglas Used it as his personal car when he visited Australia. So US Army green, more or less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/8/2017 at 11:41 AM, CatBird said:

 

 

Yes, our car is Brewster Green. It was used by the American Ambassador in Australia in WWII. General Douglas Used it as his personal car when he visited Australia. So US Army green, more or less.

Yes, sounds like  you have a different car.  That being said though the Doepke car was Green, though I believe was repainted a different Green as the anti-glare coating used by the film company (a Joe Pesci film "The Public Eye" ) damaged the paint, plus a rear door was torn off it in a filming accident (and then driven over to add insult to injury), plus it lost its 100% leather interior for cloth at same time due to damaged door and damaged wood structure).  Sidenote: The film company rented  my 1941 Cadillac 60 Special for the film, though I stipulated it could not be anti-glare coated and after I found a bum sleeping in it I "removed" the car from their hands.

 

Kind of funny why the Doepke's bought the Lincoln - they had an East Coast Summer home and needed something that could carry all their luggage and .....

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...