Problem tires

[SC38dls]

Has anyone seen a tire go bad like this before?  They are General Jet Air. 6.00 x 16 which is what was standard for the 38 Studebaker State Commander. I believe they were made in June 2011. 

The second tire had a bubble appear the day before the first tire shredded the inner tube. 

No nails, no pot holes were hit, nothing I can see on the out side of the tire. 

 

 

[46 woodie]

I had a blister the size of a tennis ball cut in half on the white sidewall of a Coker tire with only 11,000 miles on it. I also had horrible tread wear. I replaced the Coker's with B.F. Goodrich wide whites. Coker did nothing for me. Unlike your tires, mine were fairly new. I have no idea what would cause a bubble like that. I couldn't get an answer, but I would like to know also.

[padgett]

Looks like a one ply sidewall (do not see any cross cords - construction should be on the side of the tire) that has separated allowing the tire air to get between the cord and the rubber. I remember nothing good about "2ply, four ply rating with one ply sidewall" tires that were "not even safe in the driveway".

 

ps CY is MCCREARY TIRE & RUBBER COMPANY

Edited September 4, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[mike6024]

You can file a NHTSA complaint. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/complaint.cfm

[Bleach]

How do you know you're only getting a single ply in the sidewall construction? That would be important to know when buying tires.

[SC38dls]

They are 4 ply but don't know how I would know side wall rating. I have about 2500 miles on them.  How would air make the bubble when the tube was still good in that tire?  The bubble tire still was inflated. I pulled it because of the bubble and not being safe.  I beginning to think it's just poor quality tires.  

Coker says tires are warranty for 5 years but should last at least 10. I went with their tire to replace these two. 

[padgett]

Modern tires with a DOT registration are required to have the construction on the sidewall. This from an inexpensive tire.

 

I used to be amused when judging an older car that the owner swore had original tires with FMVSS markings. Right.

 

ps more than you ever wanted to know from FMVSS #109 (emphasis mine).

 

"S4.3Labeling Requirements. Except as provided in S4.3.1 and S4.3.2 of this standard, each tire, except for those certified to comply with S5.5 of § 571.139, shall have permanently molded into or onto both sidewalls, in letters and numerals not less than 0.078 inches high, the information shown in paragraphs S4.3 (a) through (g) of this standard. On at least one sidewall, the information shall be positioned in an area between the maximum section width and bead of the tire, unless the maximum section width of the tire falls between the bead and one-fourth of the distance from the bead to the shoulder of the tire. For tires where the maximum section width falls in that area, locate all required labeling between the bead and a point one-half the distance from the bead to the shoulder of the tire. However, in no case shall the information be positioned on the tire so that it is obstructed by the flange or any rim designated for use with that tire in Standards Nos. 109 and 110 (Sec. 571.109 and Sec. 571.110 of this part).

Code of Federal Regulations / Title 49 - Transportation / Vol. 6 / 2011-10-01541

(a) One size designation, except that equivalent inch and metric size designations may be used;(b) Maximum permissible inflation pressure;(c) Maximum load rating;(d) The generic name of each cord material used in the plies (both sidewall and tread area) of the tire;(e) Actual number of plies in the sidewall, and the actual number of plies in the tread area if different;(f) The words “tubeless” or “tube type” as applicable; and(g) The word “radial” if the tire is a radial ply tire.S4.3.1Each tire shall be labeled with the symbol DOT in the manner specified in part 574 of this chapter, which shall constitute a certification that the tire conforms to applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards.S4.3.2Each tire shall be labeled with the name of the manufacturer, or brand name and number assigned to the manufacturer in the manner specified in part 574.S4.3.3 [Reserved]S4.3.4If the maximum inflation pressure of a tire is 240, 280, 290, 300, 330, 340, 350, or 390 kPa, then:(a) Each marking of that inflation pressure pursuant to S4.3(b) shall be followed in parenthesis by the equivalent inflation pressure in psi, rounded to the next higher whole number; and(b) Each marking of the tire's maximum load rating pursuant to S4.3(c) in kilograms shall be followed in parenthesis by the equivalent load rating in pounds, rounded to the nearest whole number.S4.3.5If the maximum inflation pressure of a tire is 420 kPa (60 psi), the tire shall have permanently molded into or onto both sidewalls, in letters and numerals not less than 12.7 mm (1/2 inch), the words “Inflate to 420 kPa (60 psi)”. On both sidewalls, the words shall be positioned in an area between the tire shoulder and the bead of the tire. However, in no case shall the words be positioned on the tire so that they are obstructed by the flange of any rim designated for use with that tire in this standard or in Standard No. 110 (§ 571.110 ...

 

from CHAPTER V - NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. PART 571 - FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. Subpart B - Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. § 571.109 - Standard No. 109; New pneumatic and certain specialty tires.

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Tires lose half their strength after 5 years.  Age and the effects of sun and ozone. If the car was parked outside they will go faster than if they were in a cool dark garage, as long as the garage was not full of oil and gas fumes.

 

It does seem strange they should go so bad after 6 years. I guess it's the luck of the draw.

[SC38dls]

I saw that on the tire but it does not tell me waht the side wall rating is unless it is the same as thred which is 4 ply.  Maybe I just got confused with a prior post -- I thought you were saying a tire can have a different number of plys on the side than the thred. Here is what these tires say on the side wall.  I suspect these sat around before I got them and they ae poor quality. The car has been in a garage since coming out of a barn for 41 years. These are not the tires from the barn LOL.  

 

 

[Bleach]

I just realized I also have General Jet Airs on my Fairlane. They're tubeless 4-plys but it doesn't say what the sidewalls are. I think they're at least 15 years old, maybe 20. I need to figure out the code to find out for sure. The tires hardly have have any miles on them as I haven't driven the car very much since buying it around 5 years ago. It's always been garaged and I have always had a car cover on it that nearly drapes down to the floor.

I think I have the original spare in the trunk. It's a Firestone with no FMVSS markings on it

[padgett]

Key is here: "Actual number of plies in the sidewall, and the actual number of plies in the tread area if different" so a tire that says 4 plies means that in both sidewall and tread (actually how most BIAS tires are built) and is a lot better than "2 ply, 4 ply rating".

[SC38dls]

The tire with the bubble could have been caused by a curb rub. If you look at the edge of the whitewall just above the bubble you can see a little rub damage. The one with the cord damage took too much of a beating when it went flat to tell if it had curb rub damage. My grey hair keeps pulling the memory cells out of my head so I have no idea if I hit a curb with it. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[c49er]

Could be a chinese or India tire.....bad thing.

[Bleach]

31 minutes ago, c49er said:

Could be a chinese or India tire.....bad thing.

Even if it says "Made in USA" on the tires?

[c49er]

Even that does not mean made in USA anymore!.

One tire....Coker are a tire to stay away from.

JMO

[SC38dls]

7 hours ago, c49er said:

Even that does not mean made in USA anymore!.

One tire....Coker are a tire to stay away from.

JMO

Great - I just received 2 of them!  

[padgett]

Folks: I guess you missed post #3. According to the DOT label it was made in either Indiana or Pennsylvania (assuming that is the same tire). By FMVSS regulation tires sold in the US must have a manufacturing plant identifier. Just a matter of looking it up.

[SC38dls]

That is the same tire. Yes it is a "Made in America" product!  I agreed with you when that Post about foreign production was made and should have posted it then. 

The fact remains six years is too soon for a ply to give out like this. As I said I do not think I hit a curb or a major pot hole. It has always been garage kept. It is American made (some may feel this automatically means better- I have my doubts now) and there is no apparent damage to the outside of the tire. The tire with the bubble I accept may have been caused by a curb scrape - my bad and I take responsibility for that.  General tire will receive a letter, with pictures and the tire if they want to see it, saying I feel they sold me a defective or low quality product. I'll see what happens and let you know. As of now I suggest people look else where for tires than buying General Jet Air tires. Unless of course you want to take a chance on having a wild ride at 35 miles an hour. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[padgett]

Be careful: "General tire will receive a letter," first make sure who actually commissioned the tire, it may not have been General since they make their own tire (Mt. Vernon - 3C and 6B). I would suggest asking McCreary who the tire was made for first.

 

Might also ask these people.

Edited September 5, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Padgett the tires have GENERAL JET AIR molded into each tire. Doesn't that mean they were commissioned by general tire no matter who made them?  I'm not going to write a nasty "F U" letter. I want to know if this is something I can expect from the two I have left on the car or just a bad tire. If they want to give me a rebate great if not OK. If this is considered a normal expectation after six years I would pass that on and suggest people think twice before buying GENERAL tires in the future. I would pull the two I have and replace them. A blowout is not something I want to  go through again if I know I can possibly prevent it.  I'm sure the guy next to me and behind me would appreciate that also as the "beast" (38 Studebaker name) did wander a bit when the tire blew. 

[mike6024]

I still think you should write to the NHTSA and tell them your tires are delaminating, and the cords on the inside, whatever you'd call that type of failure. This is serious highway safety concerns.

 

I had tires delaminate on my pickup when driving from Southern California to Northern for a move loaded with all my stuff. The rubber of the tread came loose from the belts and flew off, just like a bad retread would throw off the rubber, but these were no retreads. Very nearly caused a crash. Driving in the right lane going 55 or so on the freeway, the left rear threw the rubber so it was rolling on a smooth belt of smaller diameter. As you can imaging the pickup swerved uncontrollably into the left lane and the whole vehicle tilted left, especially since it was heavily loaded. It looks like you have rubber not well bonded to the cord which is a manufacturing issue. 

[SC38dls]

Mike you are probably right. I just thought it was reasonable to contact GENERAL tire first and see what they say. I'll tell them I need an answer or I'll contact the NHTSA. 

I just have a feeling I'll never hear back from GT. 

[ch1929]

Just curious, were both tires on the same side of the car?

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, SC38DLS said:

Padgett the tires have GENERAL JET AIR molded into each tire. Doesn't that mean they were commissioned by general tire no matter who made them?

 

Probably not. Replica tires are almost always commissioned by someone else. As padgett said, you should contact the people who had them made. Anything else is a waste of time, and also will make the people who own the name (General) less likely to allow things to be made with their name in the future. It is hard enough to get tires.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

The tires were on different sides both on the rear of the car. After thinking about it I know where I got the tire rub rash. That's why I say the bubble could be my fault and I have no problem with accepting that. 

I'm amazed the name on the tire would not ultimately be the ones I should talk too but I can accept that also. I'll write the mfg if I can find an address, shouldn't be too hard with google.  

I will let all of you know the result one way or the other as I feel this is a safety issue everyone should be aware of 

[SC38dls]

Ok letter has been sent to mfg. will wait to see if they respond. 

[C Carl]

I am very grateful that tires for our old cars are being made. It is extremely expensive to tool-up for this. However if there is only one source for these , the lack of competition permits questionable quality control. Maybe there should be no pretense about the serviceability of these tires. Call a show tire just that. Not to be driven on public roads. Out of round , with lousy tubes. Doesn't matter on a trailered car. Make them even cheaper than they are now , but with permanantly white whitewalls for the WW people. Sell the junk for less , but also carry a road quality tire . Something totally round with an E load rating. Double the price , unconditional warranty. Truck quality tubes. Almost time for the collective might of AACA and all car clubs to sit down with the only game in town and work out a win/win solution. Far too many tire failures , and less than satisfactory compensation for same. Just wastes time and money constantly dealing with the problems. I have driven more than enough hundreds of thousands of miles on good tires to be fooled into thinking that tire technology has not advanced in the decades between the good old days and now.  - Carl

[JACK M]

17 hours ago, C Carl said:

I am very grateful that tires for our old cars are being made. It is extremely expensive to tool-up for this. However if there is only one source for these , the lack of competition permits questionable quality control. Maybe there should be no pretense about the serviceability of these tires. Call a show tire just that. Not to be driven on public roads. Out of round , with lousy tubes. Doesn't matter on a trailered car. Make them even cheaper than they are now , but with permanantly white whitewalls for the WW people. Sell the junk for less , but also carry a road quality tire . Something totally round with an E load rating. Double the price , unconditional warranty. Truck quality tubes. Almost time for the collective might of AACA and all car clubs to sit down with the only game in town and work out a win/win solution. Far too many tire failures , and less than satisfactory compensation for same. Just wastes time and money constantly dealing with the problems. I have driven more than enough hundreds of thousands of miles on good tires to be fooled into thinking that tire technology has not advanced in the decades between the good old days and now.  - Carl

Problem with this, You know SOMEONE will drive them.

Now if they had to be bright yellow or orange........

[SC38dls]

Just wanted to give an update on these tires. I wrote the mfg and the brand companies over a week ago. No response from either so filed with the NHTSA. That may not go far as their site requires a lot of information but they do not have the drop down choices allow for age, model or make of the car. They do not have the tire brand model name on the choices but all of this is REQUIRED to file a complaint. 

They do have an area for a description of the complaint so I put all of the correct info there and explained I put dummy info in for the drop down choices so I could file the complaint. Will let you all know if anything comes or I hear anything regarding this. Thanks for all of your help. 

Dave S