Coolant recommendations

[414TATA]

Had the same coolant (don't know the brand) in my '41 super for three years.  Time to change it.  What do you guys suggest as a good coolant.

 

 This area has hot summers and mild winters. Car is garaged.  The engine temp currently maxis  around 180 F  on these 100 degree days.

 

Thanks for your suggestion.

 

Wayne

1941 Super 

[Mark Shaw]

I use 50/50 Ethylene Glycol (the green stuff) and mix it myself. 

 

Any brand will do as they all have corrosion inhibitors to protect your engine from freezing while minimizing corrosion.

[billorn]

I would recommend a Google search on OAT and non-OAT antifreeze. There is a huge amount of information and it can be very confusing for an old car owner. Color is meaningless today. Brand does not tell you anything either. I also think that since you live in a mild climate you could do a 70/30 water/antifreeze mix which would give you the anti rust protection but water cools better than antifreeze so having more water will help your engine run cooler.

 

Do the homework. There is alot of info but there is no quick easy answer anymore. Sorry.

[414TATA]

Thanks.. Mark and billorn . I do some research.

[Frank DuVal]

Even in mechanic publications, they refer to common "old style" ethylene glycol automotive antifreeze as "the green stuff". Works fine if you change it every other year. Do not leave it in like I do. ?

 

I agree that one does not need 50:50 mix in mild climates. Water does conduct heat better than Etheyene glycol. We run some industrial cooling systems at 20% ethelyene glycol as long as temperature is above 10 F  We need to transfer heat energy. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 With all due respect, I would not worry about it as much as Bill. Go to the retailer of choice and look for the "green stuff".  I prefer a name brand. Zerex is my choice, since I started using it 65 years ago. Why change?

 

  One reason for using more [ up to 50/50 ]  is that it raises the boiling temp. I think. 

 

  Don't overthink it. 

 

  Ben

[Daves1940Buick56S]

I'm kinda like Ben. I use Prestone because I started using it 50 years ago (I'm younger than Ben! Ha! ). I use about 50/50 mas o menos.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Frank DuVal]

Anybody remember when Zerex was red color?

 

Yes, the more etheleyne glycol the higher the boiling point. But the less heat transfer. Use enough to prevent freezing as that is the most important part, not breaking blocks and parts! For 90% of us, 50/50 is easiest to remember. But check local temperature minimums. ?

[Guest]

Have used  Prestone ethylene glycol that I mix myself 50/50.  Have not had a problem ever.  At 50/50 if you have to add some water at some point you are still okay.  Always changed it every three years.  Never froze at -54 degrees in Manitoba and never boiled in Death Valley in the summer.

[Thriller]

I was about to say our cars get stored over the winter and you want your protection to at least -40. It doesn't get that cold every winter, but we do always hit -30 at some point (typically January). 

 

[Mark Shaw]

In mild climates like here in the Pacific Northwest, normal summertime driving may require make-up water for normal coolant loss from packing drips, slight overheating, etc.  Starting with a 50/50 mix allows the addition of make-up water while maintaining enough antifreeze for another mild winter.

[michaelod]

21 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 With all due respect, I would not worry about it as much as Bill. Go to the retailer of choice and look for the "green stuff".  I prefer a name brand. Zerex is my choice, since I started using it 65 years ago. Why change?

 

  One reason for using more [ up to 50/50 ]  is that it raises the boiling temp. I think. 

 

  Don't overthink it. 

 

  Ben

 

Sorry but Bill is absolutely correct on this issue.  Things have changed considerably in the last decade with respect to antifreeze and one needs to take the time to familiarize oneself with the documentation on the topic.  Color and brand alone will not suffice.  Your cooling system is not compatible with OAT technology and can be damaged by it.  What you want is the old IAT formula.  Much of the Zerex green antifreeze now uses an OAT formulation.  Actually there are very few brands left that still use IAT.  What I am using is:

 

PEAK PKA0B3 Antifreeze Coolant,1 gal.,RTU G4037741

 

Search for it on eBay or Amazon. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by michaelod (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

I'm of the opinion that if a person uses the 'Original Formula' Zerex 50/50 premix what else is there to worry about.  The 50/50 solution is good to -30 degrees Farenheit.  If the air temperature gets that blasted cold a person is going to have more things to worry about than the block and radiator in an old vehicle.  The business of mixing the solution yourself is nothing more than one big hassle.  I thought it was common knowledge that running anti-freeze solution in the engine will allow for running a few degrees cooler.

I'm with Ben on this - don't overthink it.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out in Hot Doo Dah

Edited September 4, 2017 by Terry Wiegand
grammar (see edit history)

[michaelod]

9 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said:

I'm of the opinion that if a person uses the 'Original Formula' Zerex 50/50 premix what else is there to worry about.  The 50/50 solution is good to -30 degrees Farenheit.  If the air temperature gets that blasted cold a person is going to have more things to worry about than the block and radiator in an old vehicle.  The business of mixing the solution yourself is nothing more than one big hassle.  I thought it was common knowledge that running anti-freeze solution in the engine will allow for running a few degrees cooler.

I'm with Ben on this - don't overthink it.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out in Hot Doo Dah

 

Just to be clear this antifreeze contains OAT technology and is not compatible with your car, regardless of the marketing on the label.  From Zerex about this exact product:

 

" A patented organic acid corrosion inhibitor package to provide extended engine protection against rust and corrosion."

 

That by definition is an OAT antifreeze and is not what you want.  Not trying to start an argument here, but please take the time to do a bit or research on the subject, and if you are still happy with putting this in your car then good enough.

[Terry Wiegand]

Are you absolutely 100% positive that you are are speaking about the 'ORIGINAL FORMULA' Zerex anti-freeze?  We had this same discussion several years ago in Dean Tryon's newsletter about the old vs new anti-freeze formulas.  The 'NEW' stuff is harmful to the solder in the old radiators and any other white metals it comes in contact with.  I'm with you about not wanting to argue the point.  It is just that we had the issue of using the old formula Zerez settled.  

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

 

[Spinneyhill]

I made the following post on April 2. I have been unable to find any evidence from reputable authorities that OAT anti-corrosion additives attack white metal. As I said, aluminium in modern engines is MUCH harder to protect than solder, steel, brass etc. in old engines. Remember, Al and Mg are at the top of the galvanic series and corrode first, passivating any other metal electrically connected to them.

 

 

[michaelod]

31 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Are you absolutely 100% positive that you are are speaking about the 'ORIGINAL FORMULA' Zerex anti-freeze?  We had this same discussion several years ago in Dean Tryon's newsletter about the old vs new anti-freeze formulas.  The 'NEW' stuff is harmful to the solder in the old radiators and any other white metals it comes in contact with.  I'm with you about not wanting to argue the point.  It is just that we had the issue of using the old formula Zerez settled.  

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

 

 

I understand your point and it is hard to say with 100% certainty.  I copied the preceding statement from the Amazon listing for the product which I assume was supplied by the manufacturer.

Look at the product details near the photo:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0033QQ4S0/ref=psdc_15718901_t1_B000CNJ6JG

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by michaelod (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Here are photos of the front and back of the Zerex container for the product that I use.  I am satisfied that this anti-freeze formula will not harm the cooling systems in my teens and twenties Buicks.  You guys can do whatever makes you feel good, but, I personally see no reason to get away from what I have been running for years with absolutely no problems.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Frank DuVal]

I'm not a Zerex guy, typically use Preston or the "cheap" house brand stuff, but here is Zerex's (Valvoline) website saying this product is for older cars:

 

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/antifreeze-products/zerex-original-green-antifreeze

 

Looks like the full strength version of Terry's suggestion.

 

I could not open the SDS (what we old guys call MSDS sheets) web page right now to see what is in it.

 

edit: I just tried the Prestone website and cannot find if their current yellow color container product is IAT technology. They do list a Prime branded green antifreeze. I do not recall seeing that on Walmart shelf.

 

I looked because I had not bought any green Prestone in a few years. Still have unopened gallons to use. Now I am catching onto the reason for this discussion! 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Frank DuVal
More ideas. (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

I am confused as to why change the antifreeze at 3 years.  The product information sheet for green Zerex says 5 years.    Hugh

 

[Guest]

It says "a service life of up to five years".  From day one, mile one it is deteriorating.  Do you believe any company's literature totally.  All of our old, collectable, vintage and especially "Classic" cars are valuable/expensive.  We have people with trouble caused by rust and corrosion.  Changing the antifreeze every couple of years is cheap insurance.  I put a new radiator in my car in 1962 and 400,000 miles later it is a clean as a whistle.  I change the antifreeze every three years and have never had a problem.  I don't even shop around for price.  I go to my local auto part store (JB Auto) here in Victoria and buy 2 gallons, pour it in the rad and add water to make 14 quarts.  Wait three years and repeat.  If you have to ask the price you can't afford it.  You either pay now or later.  The first radiator lasted 31 years and never had antifreeze in it because it was drained every fall and parked all winter for the first 29 years 99,000 miles.  The second radiator was never empty, always had antifreeze and is still perfect after 55 years.

[Grimy]

My understanding, admittedly from 20-25 years ago, is that antifreeze retains its **antifreeze** properties indefinitely, but that the additive package (anti-corrosion and water pump lube) is pretty well shot at three years, irrespective of mileage.  There *used* to be Prestone top-off supplements but haven't seen them in Calif (yes, we're different) for at least 10 years.

[Spinneyhill]

5 hours ago, Grimy said:

My understanding, admittedly from 20-25 years ago, is that antifreeze retains its **antifreeze** properties indefinitely, but that the additive package (anti-corrosion and water pump lube) is pretty well shot at three years, irrespective of mileage.  There *used* to be Prestone top-off supplements but haven't seen them in Calif (yes, we're different) for at least 10 years.

That is what I have read. The anti-corrosive additives break down with age, forming acids. The OAT compounds last longer, but they still break down. The other thing is that a common anti-corrosion compound attacks some types of synthetic (silicon?) rubber and must be masked by other chemicals in the anti-freeze. Penrite's coolant, for example, contains that chemical but they say it is safe for all metals and all seals and gaskets, for the time period on the bottle.

 

Usually the antifreeze companies say we don't NEED the latest technology antifreeze and anti-corrosion solutions. If we had aluminium and magnesium in our systems then we would! OAT is usually costlier than inorganic or HOAT mixes.

 

When they say "up to five years" they DON'T say it WILL last for 5 years. It MAY, in certain conditions.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Come on Terry...-30 F is just a bit brisk, hardly problem causing. Of course I tend not to work on anything in an unheated shop in January up here. 

 

Remember that manufacturer claims also tend to need to stand the test of lawyers. A truck can haul more than it's rated for, but they aren't liable (or less so) if you are overloaded and something fails.