buying a stude

[keninman]

1 hour ago, kclark said:

The car has yet to arrive, but I've learned more information since I bought it on Monday. I learned from another forum who restored it last and that it was done in the 70's. I have very little doubt that the car is not in good shape and I doubt needs anything major in the near future. We may look at a new paint job and definitely new tires. 

I bought the new tires, tubes and flaps after I ran a stick through one. That was about $570 and another $45 for a Hercules Rim tool (a must have) but at least I have good tires. I used 2 quarts of Flex Seal to stop the top from leaking like a sieve.

 

I believe my GL was repainted in the 80s and it is in dire need of a repaint. Fortunately that is what my neighbor does for a living. I plan to replace the top at the same time. I started on the undercarriage to mitigate rust and damage to the wood floor. I have the front pretty solid but I still need to address amidships and the rear. 

 

The car you have is fantastic. I wish I could afford something like it. 

[kclark]

A lot of people have told me it is a great car in great condition. I believe the previous owner took good care of it and has been garage kept as it will be when I receive it. I have spent the passed couple of days making room for it in the garage.

Edited September 9, 2017 by kclark (see edit history)

[starlightcoupe]

When my time comes, may I contract for its use in Washington, PA?

[kclark]

Only if my funeral home is doing the services. At least that is what I'm thinking at this point. If there is enough interest I might reconsider but there would definitely be some expense going here there and yonder.

[starlightcoupe]

2 hours ago, kclark said:

... there would definitely be some expense going here there and yonder.

As well there should be!

[kclark]

Can someone provide me a picture of what the serial number on a 1929 Studebaker should look like. I certainly do not see one on mine. I'm trying to get it ready to be titled.

[keninman]

There are two from what I gather. One on the frame just behind the drivers side front wheel the other on the firewall. My car was titled with the one on the firewall just above the steering column though I have been told that the one on the frame is the one that was supposed to be used. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by keninman (see edit history)

[kclark]

I think mine were taken off.

[nzcarnerd]

On ‎8‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 1:03 PM, keninman said:

I don't know, I have not tried. I did buy the special wrench to unscrew them but have not tried yet. I have two missing door handles. I am using vice grips for one. Another is broken off but still works and one that is intact and works. They seem to be made out of the same die cast as the carburetor. 

 

Could it be a modified Commander GJ Six? What gets me is the tie bar with the "6" in it. Like the GL Dictator it came in both the 6 and 8 cylinder versions. 

That was my thought having read this post for the first time. Clues - the Engine number would start with GJ.... The GJ engine, which was a one year only model is just a GE with 1/8" extra stroke as far as I can see. Another clue is that it is on 19" wheels. All of the GEs were on 20s.

Edited September 14, 2017 by nzcarnerd (see edit history)

[studeboy]

I was wondering the same thing. The GE has the spark plugs evenly spaced in the head. The engine pictured has them unevenly spaced as in pairs?

[keninman]

7 hours ago, kclark said:

I think mine were taken off.

Did you get a title with the car? If so what numbers are used as its VIN? Since it is a funeral coach completed by another company perhaps Studebaker did not put their numbers on it. Have you contacted the museum in Houston to see if theirs has a VIN plate. 

 

As for engine numbers what I can find are one on the block, 167683-2 located on the passenger side near the back of the engine. There is a similar casting on the head, 167684-2. There are also numbers on the head and block that start with I, the one on the block is I-7-20  which I think is the casting date. Following what I found in another post by Nzcarnerd, "I" would be for 1929.  I found no numbers that start with a letter. Sorry but my block date number is behind my oil filter, 

[keninman]

On 9/7/2017 at 9:19 PM, kclark said:

I know the one in the museum has an 8 in it.

I was looking and Studebaker did not make an 8 cylinder Dictator before the FG model in 29/30. Did you ever find any numbers on the block, firewall or frame plate?

 

[kclark]

I only found the 2 on the engine. No firewall and no frame. 

[dictator27]

The 167--- numbers are casting numbers which Studebaker also used as part numbers.  The -2 indicates that there have been two revisions to the initial design.  

[starlightcoupe]

The STAMPED Serial Number (1465019) should be the VIN number used for registration purposes. The EMBOSSED body tag (GLW-1 2960) should have never been used for registration, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction that ever did so. It merely reveals the model and whether it's a sedan, coupe, roadster, etc. It's entirely probably Patrick's hearse, being a coach built professional car never did have a Studebaker body tag; but the chassis (frame, running gear and cowl) never would have left the factory without a Serial Plate on the left frame rail behind the front tire. There are also casting numbers on the engine block and head, but these are simply casting numbers, NOT an engine number. The engine number, like the Serial Number, will be STAMPED in to the side of the block. Many jurisdictions at one point did register by engine number, but none any more.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by starlightcoupe (see edit history)

[kclark]

1 hour ago, starlightcoupe said:

The STAMPED Serial Number (1465019) should be the VIN number used for registration purposes. The EMBOSSED body tag (GLW-1 2960) should have never been used for registration, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction that ever did so. It merely reveals the model and whether it's a sedan, coupe, roadster, etc. It's entirely probably Patrick's hearse, being a coach built professional car never did have a Studebaker body tag; but the chassis (frame, running gear and cowl) never would have left the factory without a Serial Plate on the left frame rail behind the front tire. There are also casting numbers on the engine block and head, but these are simply casting numbers, NOT an engine number. The engine number, like the Serial Number, will be STAMPED in to the side of the block. Many jurisdictions at one point did register by engine number, but none any more.

 

 

 

I show neither of those unfortunately. I know it was titled in Michigan and Indiana using the engine block number. North Carolina won't use an engine block number, so I have to have the DMV order one. I don't think it is too terribly bad, it just takes about a month turnaround. And then I'll just have a new VIN on the car instead of a nice antique VIN/serial on the car.

[keninman]

2 hours ago, starlightcoupe said:

The STAMPED Serial Number (1465019) should be the VIN number used for registration purposes. The EMBOSSED body tag (GLW-1 2960) should have never been used for registration, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction that ever did so. It merely reveals the model and whether it's a sedan, coupe, roadster, etc. It's entirely probably Patrick's hearse, being a coach built professional car never did have a Studebaker body tag; but the chassis (frame, running gear and cowl) never would have left the factory without a Serial Plate on the left frame rail behind the front tire. There are also casting numbers on the engine block and head, but these are simply casting numbers, NOT an engine number. The engine number, like the Serial Number, will be STAMPED in to the side of the block. Many jurisdictions at one point did register by engine number, but none any more.

 

 

The car at one time had been registered in Illinois by the body tag. Michigan accepted that as the number and knowing what a bugger Indiana is about titles, the one I had used the body tag so that is what I had the police check done on and titled it here with that number. It cost me $62 to add the 1929 license plate to the registration so I could not say what it would cost to change the VIN to the serial. Me tinks I will leave it as is.

[dictator27]

While it is possible that there may not have been a body tag on the hearse there is no way it left South Bend wihout a chassis mounted serial number plate. There will be two small holes in the frame or possibly two rivets behind the left front wheel.  This is a poor place for a plate as it is subject to gravel/rocks thrown up by the wheel.

 

Terry

[kclark]

On 9/4/2017 at 3:32 PM, starlightcoupe said:

Kevin,

Regarding your inoperative fuel gauge, I posted this on the Studebaker Drivers Club Forum, but others here may find it helpful as well.

 

 

starlightcoupe,

I wound up having to drop my tank as it had a small leak at the neck that needed to be fixed. So I took out the tank unit. It looks a lot like the one in your picture. Is there any reason for it to be cleaned up before reinstalling?

[keninman]

I damaged my lines removing and reinstalling the tank. They split at the bends instead of bending. Just something to watch out for. 

[starlightcoupe]

2 hours ago, kclark said:

 

 

starlightcoupe,

I wound up having to drop my tank as it had a small leak at the neck that needed to be fixed. So I took out the tank unit. It looks a lot like the one in your picture. Is there any reason for it to be cleaned up before reinstalling?

If your fittings came apart without stripping and there are no breaches in the air line to the dash, I can see no advantage to fixing something that isn't broken, regardless of its appearance. I have no personal experience at refurbishing these units but, if you feel it necessary, or simply desire the peace of mind, I would recommend KM Lifestyle Mfg. http://mykmlifestyle.com/King_Seeley_Fuel_Sender.html

Edited September 19, 2017 by starlightcoupe (see edit history)

[keninman]

I first tried soldering and failed. I ended up running rubber gas line all of the way down to the sending unit top. My gauge works pretty good now. Below was a test of the unit before reinstalling in the tank. I should mention that I did have to purchase new brass screws. They had built up varnish on the threads that protruded into the tank. I ruined many while getting them out. I shortened the new screws to  not project so far inside the tank. 

[kclark]

3 minutes ago, keninman said:

I first tried soldering and failed. I ended up running rubber gas line all of the way down to the sending unit top. My gauge works pretty good now. Below was a test of the unit before reinstalling in the tank. I should mention that I did have to purchase new brass screws. They had built up varnish on the threads that protruded into the tank. I ruined many while getting them out. I shortened the new screws to  not project so far inside the tank. 

Looking at your "test" picture, I can't tell, did you put the entire sending unit in the jar? 

[keninman]

36 minutes ago, kclark said:

Looking at your "test" picture, I can't tell, did you put the entire sending unit in the jar? 

It is in almost to the mounting plate. I then blew air though the gas line hose to actuate the gauge in the dash. The gas is red because it had been in the tank with the Red-Kote sealer. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by keninman (see edit history)

[kclark]

What did you use to seal around the mounting plate when you reinstalled it?

[keninman]

Just now, kclark said:

What did you use to seal around the mounting plate when you reinstalled it?

Believe it or not the cardboard gasket was intact, I just reused it. They are easy to make though, either using gasket material or a cereal box. If you are going to have one of these old cars you will probably have to learn to make gaskets if you are unfamiliar. A cheap set of hole punches are available on Amazon for about $10. The one's I make are typically not pretty but effective. The oddest gasket I have found on the car appeared to have been made from newspaper. 

[nzcarnerd]

Reading through this post I guess that the correct engine serial number has not been found?  It should be on the machined area just above the small water jacket above the water pump on the right side of the engine (looking forward).

[keninman]

1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said:

Reading through this post I guess that the correct engine serial number has not been found?  It should be on the machined area just above the small water jacket above the water pump on the right side of the engine (looking forward).

You are correct, I looked and mine was there. 

[kclark]

And figured out why the speedometer didn't work. Or at least I know one reason why it wouldn't work. I won't know for sure until I get a new cable and my gas tank back. 

[keninman]

That's an awful big cable to break, ouch. Ya might want to lube the housing and test the speedometer before reinstalling. 

[kclark]

33 minutes ago, keninman said:

That's an awful big cable to break, ouch. Ya might want to lube the housing and test the speedometer before reinstalling. 

 

What kind of lube?

 

and I've got to figure out how to get the speedo out.

[keninman]

21 minutes ago, kclark said:

 

What kind of lube?

 

and I've got to figure out how to get the speedo out.

Two screws in the back. My bottom one was stuck, that is kind of a bugger. Once out it was pretty easy to lube the shaft that was making all of the noise. 

[kclark]

Did you have to replace your cable?

[keninman]

1 minute ago, kclark said:

Did you have to replace your cable?

No, it turned out the cable was fine. When I first got the car all seemed fine but shortly I began to get a scraping noise. I tracked it to the speedometer or cable. when I unhooked the cable the noise went away. I first tried lubing the cable with Vaseline like the owners manual called for with no result. I then tried a heavier high temp grease with no improvement. I poured oil down the housing, no better. Though the cable was turning in the housing the noise only occurred when I connected it to the speedometer itself. Once I had the speedo out I could replicate the noise by using a screwdriver to simulate the cable turning and traced it to the shaft of the speed indicator. A small amount of oil on the shaft (like a drop on the end of a very small screwdriver) ended the noise and my speedo works great now. Against a gps speedo running on my cell phone they agree within 3 mph. That is more than good enough in my estimation. 

[kclark]

My speedo now works pretty well. I sprayed it down with some WD40 and now all gears turn and the mileage rolls. I think it's good to go.

[kclark]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:27 PM, starlightcoupe said:

If your fittings came apart without stripping and there are no breaches in the air line to the dash, I can see no advantage to fixing something that isn't broken, regardless of its appearance. I have no personal experience at refurbishing these units but, if you feel it necessary, or simply desire the peace of mind, I would recommend KM Lifestyle Mfg. http://mykmlifestyle.com/King_Seeley_Fuel_Sender.html

 

I was looking over the tank unit again. the air inlet is slightly bent but not kinked.  the airline and the fuel line turn just a little at the top of the "cap" of the unit. Would this affect the working of the gauge? Just wondering before I start putting it all back together. If it would, I would rather buy another or send this one off for restoration.

[starlightcoupe]

Again, I'm not the expert on the unit but, I would think any motion between the tubes and the mounting plate would simply be a spot for a fuel leak if the tank was overfilled, not impacting either the fuel pickup nor the gauge reading.

[kclark]

On 9/14/2017 at 8:01 PM, starlightcoupe said:

The STAMPED Serial Number (1465019) should be the VIN number used for registration purposes. The EMBOSSED body tag (GLW-1 2960) should have never been used for registration, and I am unaware of any jurisdiction that ever did so. It merely reveals the model and whether it's a sedan, coupe, roadster, etc. It's entirely probably Patrick's hearse, being a coach built professional car never did have a Studebaker body tag; but the chassis (frame, running gear and cowl) never would have left the factory without a Serial Plate on the left frame rail behind the front tire. There are also casting numbers on the engine block and head, but these are simply casting numbers, NOT an engine number. The engine number, like the Serial Number, will be STAMPED in to the side of the block. Many jurisdictions at one point did register by engine number, but none any more.

 

 

 

starlightcoupe,

I was ready back over some posts including this one. I reread the above post and I guess I missed it. I have yet to find a Stamped Serial Number or an Embossed Body tag. But you state that "It's entirely probably Patrick's hearse...". I don't know who Patrick is, but what caught my attention this time around is the rest of the sentence, "being a coach built professional car never did have a Studebaker body tag...". If this is true and wish I could find evidence of this to show the NC DMV as I do have a Superior Coach Built Tag that is screwed to the seat with a Serial Number on it. If this is what was used on coach built cars, hopefully I can talk to the DMV and they will use this number to title it.

[starlightcoupe]

Well, the embossed "body tag", in the example shown GLW-1 2960, would have been attached at the factory to indicate the body style, ie. four-door, coupe, roadster, etc. Since yours was no doubt supplied to Superior Coach as a cowl and chassis only, there would be no body tag. But the body tag would have never been used for registration anyway.

Have you looked for the hidden Serial No., which I believe would have been, unfortunately, lightly stamped in the the right frame rail at some point below the right front door? That stamping was not deep and 90 years of rust may well have obscured it. I'm sure NCIS has sophisticated electro-chemical processes to reveal it.

 

[keninman]

20 hours ago, kclark said:

 

starlightcoupe,

I was ready back over some posts including this one. I reread the above post and I guess I missed it. I have yet to find a Stamped Serial Number or an Embossed Body tag. But you state that "It's entirely probably Patrick's hearse...". I don't know who Patrick is, but what caught my attention this time around is the rest of the sentence, "being a coach built professional car never did have a Studebaker body tag...". If this is true and wish I could find evidence of this to show the NC DMV as I do have a Superior Coach Built Tag that is screwed to the seat with a Serial Number on it. If this is what was used on coach built cars, hopefully I can talk to the DMV and they will use this number to title it.

Do you have an Indiana title that uses the engine number? If so then see if you can have this stamped into the frame / body or a plate mounted to the frame /body and use that. What they are probably worried about is someone swapping an engine which is probably quite common, especially with rat rods.