WABCO Accumulator

[heygibb]

After failing both ROJ accumulator tests, I installed a new WABCO STC 2784 accumulator in my ’90 coupe. Threading was exact fit. Only mod was to shim up cross brace w/ a couple of large washers at each attachment lug. W/ old accum, I got zero pedal pushes before pump engaged. Now I get 5-6 pedal pushes after system is pressurized. Initial pressurization is ~21 seconds. The fluid level in the reservoir drops 3/8” during pressurization.
I purchased from supplier in England on eBay. I received it in 2 days. Cost was $159.99, delivered.  I contacted MeritorWABCO to verify warranty. It’s good to go. I've had no problems in 3 weeks of use.

 

 

[2seater]

Interesting. It looks like the Range Rover and TC guys have been down this road for a while.

[heygibb]

I went w/ WABCO after reading this thread. After confirming elsewhere the Range Rover part was compatible, I looked around until I found the one I bought.

How does the price point compare to the Hydac?

 

[Digger914]

2 hours ago, heygibb said:

I went w/ WABCO after reading this thread. After confirming elsewhere the Range Rover part was compatible, I looked around until I found the one I bought.

How does the price point compare to the Hydac?

 

Along with the first hand report that it works and now that people can see how well it fits, your posting should really help to take the fear out of buying one. Great picture of the WABCO,.

 

At $159 delivered the Wabco price is real close to what the Hydac sells for when the people selling have them in stock. You could have shopped some more and beat the EBay price, but I don't think you could beat the two day delivery at that price.

[heygibb]

When I saw the Jag versions going for $280-400, the $160 sounded pretty good. When I did open searches on Google,  I found some in the $130's but the shipping upped it to $150's or so, and delivery was a week or more.  I'm satisfied. The 2 day delivery was a shock, coming from England. I was impressed.

[89RedDarkGrey]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 1:34 PM, heygibb said:

I purchased from supplier in England on eBay

 

Could you please post the Storefront link? Or was it a private, secret transaction?

[heygibb]

Sure. i have no connection to the seller other than I purchased from him.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272609473117

[Barney Eaton]

Thanks for posting the information......I do not own a Reatta with the Teves system but get phone calls on a regular basis asking about brake problems, which is usually a bad accumulator.

I noticed that this unit has a hex at the bottom that is not on the Teves unit. When you talked to WABCO did you think to ask if they had a unit for the GM Teves system, or ask another way

do they have the same basic accumulator without the bottom hex .... if the hex were not there, this might fit without raising the cross brace.

Like others, I checked Ebay and found WABCO STC 2784 units for $152 with shipping from Buffalo, $153 with shipping from Miami, and a unit with a extension at the top (might be rechargeable)

for $149 with $14.95 shipping from Calif.

Here is picture from Ebay of the unit with the extension/cap on the top

Edited September 4, 2017 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[heygibb]

2 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

Thanks for posting the information......I do not own a Reatta with the Teves system but get phone calls on a regular basis asking about brake problems, which is usually a bad accumulator.

I noticed that this unit has a hex at the bottom that is not on the Teves unit. When you talked to WABCO did you think to ask if they had a unit for the GM Teves system, or ask another way

do they have the same basic accumulator without the bottom hex .... if the hex were not there, this might fit without raising the cross brace.

Like others, I checked Ebay and found WABCO STC 2784 units for $152 with shipping from Buffalo, $153 with shipping from Miami, and a unit with a extension at the top (might be rechargeable)

for $149 with $14.95 shipping from Calif.

Here is picture from Ebay of the unit with the extension/cap on the top

There is a height difference (as well as, volume... .25L vs .32L) and that wrench hex would account for that.  My original had a recessed Allen wrench fitting to secure the ball. I'm sure it was OEM, in my case. While talking to the WABCO rep, it didn't occur to me to ask that. I don't enter my car in shows, so shimming the cross brace wasn't an issue for me. It was a simple mod to make things work. The design in your picture wasn't my first choice, for aesthetic reasons. I didn't like the look of the cap extending up like that.

Here is a link to Meritor WABCO if you wanted to pursue an answer. As I understand it, this subsidiary handles the warranty claims.

http://www.meritorwabco.com/Contact-Information

The number I initially called was 866-668-7221. They transferred me to the 248 number of the rep. There is an email link for technical inquiries on that page, too.

Here is main company link.

http://www.wabco-auto.com/how-to-find-us/contact/north-america-sales-service-contacts/

 

One oversight on my part, now that I think about it, is that I didn't specify to them I installed it on a Reatta Teves system. My focus was to get some feedback on warranty in North America vs England, and to confirm my accumulator was new by supplying the SN.  So, it is possible any warranty claim may hit a snag since it's not a Range Rover. Either way, I'm willing to take a chance on not needing the warranty. My OEM accumulator lasted 27 years, so the odds are in my favor it will last more than 2 yrs. Time will tell, though.
 

[ski.dive]

WABCO works great, got it mine from EBAY

 

[alandereklucas1956]

Hi guys.

Across the pond here in uk i have a1990 granada mk3 scorpio with the teves mk2 system.

Mine still seems to be working ok after 28 years, but I am thinking of replacing the accumulator anyway with the wabco one which also fits my 2000 p38 range rover.

There is a fiat/alfa romeo part for the selespeed gearbox  71751195 which has the same thread but is stamped 92 bar but that maybe the precharge value as the part number also mentions 210 which maybe the max working pressure but i have been unable to verify that. Someone mentioned that they had 2 hydac ones where  the diaphragm burst when the pump ran, so maybe they have different strength nbr diaphragms to cope with the different pressures as I imagine the steel ball itself is virtually indestructible?

Another part is the Parker Olaer Diaphragm Accumulator

Product Description

• OEM Part No: 10986601125 
• BSPP
• FCH DIAPHRAGM ACCUM 0.32 LITRES G1/2  

 

which you will need a male to male adaptor g1/2 to m14 1,5

 

Hope this info is useful and i would appreciate any feedabck on the fiat part suitability

Also a Kramp part using same adapter

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by alandereklucas1956
extra information (see edit history)

[alandereklucas1956]

Don't bother with the Kramp one, the bladder failed within about 12 months. 

[Barney Eaton]

The original post is from Sept 2017 and I posted the ebay picture of a WABCO accumulator.... I have not seen a WABCO in person so I could be compared it to an original. 

Since that time,  I have seen a HYDAC that came from Spinning wheels.   Since I do not own a '88-90 that uses the accumulator,  I cannot actually install one and compare clearances. 

The first picture is dimensions taken from an original accumulator. 

 

The second picture is a comparison of the HYDAC to an original.....  the level on the top is to get a measurement from the mounting surface to the top.

The HYDAC is 1/8 inch taller at the center,   but the main "body" is close to 1/2 taller than the original.   The HYDAC is slightly fatter...the original is 3.30 in diameter the HYDAC is 3.60.

A major difference which I see as an advantage, is the originals supposedly had a nitrogen pre-charge of 750 psi,  the HYDAC has a nitrogen pre-charge of 1000 psi.

Does anyone have a WABCO that they could measure for comparison?

 

[Barney Eaton]

If I had a '88 -90 car that I intended to keep,  I would get a spare cross brace and modify it to clear the taller accumulator. 

The washers work but tend to look like a back alley job. 

The Reatta cross brace for 88 -90 are part number 20685368 (ABS)  Riviera without ABS have a different number (1631794) but if you are going to 

modify it to clear the accumulator it would probably work..... same with Eldorado and Seville... different part numbers but probably mount the same. 

 

[padgett]

In the late 80s every GM car with ABS used the Teves - except the Allante which used a Bosch - what happens when you have an Italian company build the car and Japanese high school kids design the wiring.

[2seater]

2 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

If I had a '88 -90 car that I intended to keep,  I would get a spare cross brace and modify it to clear the taller accumulator. 

The washers work but tend to look like a back alley job. 

The Reatta cross brace for 88 -90 are part number 20685368 (ABS)  Riviera without ABS have a different number (1631794) but if you are going to 

modify it to clear the accumulator it would probably work..... same with Eldorado and Seville... different part numbers but probably mount the same. 

 

That brace is remarkably tough. When I installed my Hydac I tried doing a little dimple on the bottom with my 20 ton press and was only partially successful. I am sure it could be modified with the addition of heat, or cut and weld a notch in it, but the washers worked and I just ;eave the hood closed😎

[padgett]

Think I still have a spare with the white "made in Germany" sticker. Dunno if still any good.

[89blueovergrey]

Well, I believe it is time for me to replace the accumulator in my 89 with 140k miles.  Thanks to everyone who has contributed on this topic.  I am about ready to purchase the Wabco STC 2784.  However, I am wondering if anyone has any experience with the Uro or Dudsn brands, which have the same STC 2784 part number.  The Uro is about 1/2 the price of the Wabco.  Thanks in advance for your response.

[Barney Eaton]

Why don't you give one a try and then you could be a contributor to the knowledge that resides here?

[89blueovergrey]

To answer Barney:  After reading this thread, I discovered the existence of the URO STC2784.  I asked if anyone had tried this, as I would not want to repeat a failed attempt with this, nor pay more for the Wabco item if the less expensive URO item could be used. 

 

I have collected some info on the URO brake accumulator and can provide some comparisons to the GM original and the Wabco versions.   I purchased the URO item for just over $100 (Rockauto) and the Wabco for around $250 (Amazon/Autoplicity). 

 

Here are the dimensions (my measurements) for the originally installed GM product, the Wabco, and the URO.

 

                                                        GM             Wabco           URO        

                Diameter (mm)             84.4              94.0              95.5             

                Height (mm)                  116*              118                128

 

                * The height for the GM original includes the top nipple with the hex socket, which does not go under the cross brace.

 

                                                   GM                                                     Wabco

 

 

 

I ultimately installed the Wabco.  When installed it touched the pipe that circles the front of the accumulator.  I believe the URO, while it may have fit, would have put some pressure on the pipe.  I employed the two washer solution when refitting the cross brace and it just cleared the top of the accumulator.  I would suspect the extra 10mm of height on the URO would not allow the cross brace to be re-installed.  I do not believe the stud on the strut housing is long enough to allow the cross brace to be mounted much higher.

 

Some notes:

·         I used a metal strap oil filter wrench to remove and install the accumulators.  Due to the torque required (more than anticipated) for both the removal and installation, I blocked the pump/motor assembly.  The service manual calls for 30 ft-lb.

 

Removal                                                                                           Installation

                     

 

·         I don’t have pictures of the URO as it was sealed in a plastic bag and since there was the possibility of returning it, I did not remove it from the bag.

·         After the repair I completed a brake fluid flush.   I don’t know if there is a way to fully siphon or drain the reservoir, but since I could not do it, I used about 2.5 quarts of new brake fluid during the flush.   If the reservoir could be completely emptied of old fluid prior to starting the flush, it would require much, much less fluid.

·         Upon inspection of all brake lines, I noticed a few rust areas, especially in the area of the proportioning valve.  I will start to investigate replacement – there is always the next repair!

[Barney Eaton]

Thanks for all the good information and photos.

 

On draining the reservoir,  I do not have a good photo but at the bottom back it funnels down with a gravity outlet. 

That outlet has a no pressure line that runs to the back of the pump to the 90 degree fitting shown.  

On our 30+ year old cars this line is a little tricky to get off for fear of breaking the 90 degree fitting shown. 

If you can get the hose off the reservoir, you can completely drain it.

If you are feeling lucky,  you can completely remove the reservoir from the master cylinder and flush it. 

On close inspection you will see there is a filter inside by the outlet and it would be great to blow air in there to dislodge 

and thing stuck on the filter.     If we could find a supply of new 90 degree fitting,  they there would be less stress trying 

to flush the reservoir.

Your method works fine it just takes some extra brake fluid. 

 

[2seater]

Thanks for the update and information👍 It is interesting the dimensions are so different between the two aftermarket accumulators when the apparent part number is the same??? Is a country of origin listed on the URO?

 

 I have torn down a few of the Teves pumps and explored the insides and the one thing I never had any luck doing, was removing that plastic elbow. I have heard it is possible, but I have failed to do so. I know the urge to drain and clean the reservoir as much as possible is strong, but the reality is, that same fluid in the bottom of the reservoir has been the active part of the system for all the years prior to the fluid change. I know, I have the same desire and Barney's point about the screen is a very good one but a couple of fluid changes in a shortened regular schedule will take care of the system as well as possible. 

[DAVES89]

2seater, my friend Bob removed that elbow first try years ago, but I can't remember what he used or how he did it.

When Kendall and I swapped out the gaskets for the reservoir we used a spray can tube taped to a hand pump vacuum and got most of the fluid out. The tube is small enough to fit through the strainer.

[EmTee]

I don't know how accessible the MC fill port is, but I always try to suck out as much of the old fluid from the reservoir as possible before flushing the system with new fluid.  I use one of these bulb-type syringes.  You can add a length of hose to the end if an extension is needed.  Just be sure to use a fender cover and put your finger over the end to prevent drips as you remove it.

 

https://www.amazon.com/6-Ounce-Rubber-Battery-Syringe-JTC/dp/B076Y8T9QW

 

 

[Barney Eaton]

If I had a Reatta with Teves brakes,  I would get a tower brace from a Riviera and modify it to clear these tall accumulators. 

We know you can put some washers under them to give you clearance but if you are going to keep the car why not make a 

nice clean installation with a modified brace. 

(my only Reatta is a 1991)..... just counted yesterday and this is number 11