1938 Buick Century Model 61 - Four Door Touring Sedan - Trunk Back

[MCHinson]

Today, I cleaned up the trim for the window moldings. I used the firm cloth pad on a rotary buffer to clean the rust off of the front and back of the trim pieces with cutting compound and then followed up with white rouge on a soft rotary buffing wheel to buff them to a shiny finish. After that, I used a small bottle with a brush in the cap to apply some black enamel paint in the recesses of the trim pieces. I then used paper towels and goo gone paint wipes with light pressure to wipe off the excess paint. 

[MCHinson]

This morning I installed the restored window trim on the window moldings. I am happy with the way they look. After that, since the weather was nice and warm, I decided to move the buffing equipment outside to prevent making a mess inside the garage and experimented with buffing a couple of hubcaps. I have 8 of them total. I will probably end up sending four of them out for rechroming or perhaps pick up some of the new reproduction ones that should be available soon, but for now, I plan to buff them all up and use the best four of them at least temporarily on the 38 project.  

[MCHinson]

This morning, I cleaned up and buffed the other 6 hubcaps. I don't have any perfect ones, but I can easily pick four that are good enough to use temporarily until I can have 4 rechromed or until the new batch of reproductions are available from CARS, Inc. I will not be working on the Buick project until Monday, as I leave tomorrow morning for the AACA Annual Meeting.

[MCHinson]

I rented a pickup for the trip to the AACA Annual Meeting, because I needed to make a side trip back to pick up the "spare" engine for the body donor 1938 Buick Special. When I bought the car, the purchase included a spare engine, but I initially chose to leave it with the seller to allow him to sell it again to make a little bit more money, since I did not need a spare engine. When I got home from that previous trip, I discovered that the "spare" engine's serial number was listed on the 1938 Buick Special's title. The "spare" engine was the original engine. I got back into town early Sunday morning. My friend who I would normally borrow an engine hoist from happened to be out of state, so on Sunday afternoon, I bought and assembled an engine hoist. This enabled me to unload the spare engine so I could return my rental truck on Monday morning. 

 

I enjoyed the AACA Annual Meeting but I really did not get enough sleep during my time away from home. Yesterday morning, I was too busy with an engraving order that came in on Friday afternoon to work on the Buick project. I did pick up the rebuilt carburetor and installed it yesterday afternoon. This morning, I received another even larger engraving order, so I could not work on the Buick project this morning either. I don't like not having time to work on the car, but the engraving does help pay for Buick parts. This afternoon, I was busy with trophy assembly for our upcoming AACA Chapter's 46th Annual Spring Meet. I hope to be able to finish that job tomorrow afternoon. This afternoon, I also received a notice that my wiring harness is scheduled to be delivered by UPS tomorrow. I was happy to hear that. I look forward to being able to install it soon.     

[MCHinson]

Today I was busy doing most of the rest of the trophy assembly for our upcoming Chapter car show. I was happy to receive the wiring harness today. It looks good. I really need to move the trophies into the house tomorrow. I think the photo (with about half of trophies) demonstrates that I don't have enough room to stack the trophies in the garage and work on the car. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

That's nice: you are giving to yourself all those trophies and that, before the car is finished!

[MCHinson]

2 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

That's nice: you are giving to yourself all those trophies and that, before the car is finished!

Unfortunately, my garage has to function as my garage, my restoration shop, and my engraving company workshop. It is normally plenty big but it is a bit cramped with the Buick restoration project taking up its space. I hope to move all of the trophies to a spare room in the house today, so I can get back to the Buick project. 

[MCHinson]

Today has not been a good day for Buick work, since I was busy with other things, but I did find some time this afternoon to spend a few hours organizing and storing engraving equipment and supplies from the recent trophy production run and cleaning up the garage. I can get to the Buick to work on it again but tomorrow I will not be able to work on it because I will be driving my 1937 Century on a local AACA tour. Hopefully I will be back to work on the 1938 Buick project on Monday morning.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Enjoy then tour. We will be here when you return.

 

  Ben

[MCHinson]

This morning, I cleaned up a few parts. I wire wheeled and sandblasted the accelerator pedal and throttle linkage. I then painted those items and hung them up to dry. I also cleaned up the accelerator spring and other hardware and painted those parts with clear sealer to prevent rust returning to them.  I then used a hammer and a punch to knock out the two knockouts in the firewall where the correct heater is supposed to be mounted. I plan to use those two knockouts to fill the holes from the incorrect heater that was in this car. I cleaned up around one of those holes with a wire wheel brush and used a magnet to hold the knockout in place for welding soon. 

 

After that, I cleaned up and painted the ignition switch assembly and hung it up to dry.

[Stooge]

I'm still working my way through this thread, but something I had accidentally overlooked when I started reading, although I was aware you purchased this in Massachusetts, I had glazed over a very specific bit of information, the small town you purchased it in, Abington. Abington happens to be the town I grew up in, and currently reside in, and the Proctor's are a good friend's neighbor. After I bought my Century back in September and had started looking for an engine and transmission, it was met with the "Dang, we just sold a century with the 320 and transmission a week or 2 ago"

 

Small world!

Edited February 20, 2018 by Stooge (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

Stooge,

 

It would have probably made both my life and your life easier if you had found it before I did, but I am enjoying the project.  

[MCHinson]

This morning, I was surprised to find that the parts that I painted yesterday were not dry. The weather has been odd, too warm for the heat to come on in the garage, too cold for the air conditioner to come on in the garage, and really humid. I moved the parts outside and put them in a sunny location to finish drying in the sun. I then got too busy with the job that pays the bills to work on the Buick any more this morning. Later today, I installed the rubber cover on the accelerator pedal. I decide to apply a bead of silicone sealant around the back edge to make sure that there is no problem with it sliding off of the pedal in the future. I applied some rubber bands to hold the edges tight to the pedal until the silicone sealer cured. 

 

Later today, UPS delivered a nice fuel pressure regulator that I purchased on ebay recently so I installed it. This evening, I was able to paint the black inserts of the ignition switch. Hopefully I will have more time tomorrow to work on the Buick. 

[MCHinson]

This morning, I installed the accelerator pedal. I then connected the accelerator linkage and realized it needed some substantial adjustment to reach from the accelerator pedal to the carburetor. After doing that, I realized that I had cleaned up, painted, and installed the accelerator linkage from the Special body donor car instead of the Century. It worked but I did not like the way it fit.

 

I happened to notice that I had not installed the wiper knob into the dash, so I found the wiper knob and buffed it and then installed it in the dash. Later this afternoon, I did some searching and found the accelerator linkage from the Century. It is clearly a bit different from the one from the Special. I cleaned it up with my sand blaster and a wire wheel and painted it. Tomorrow, I plan to remove the Special accelerator linkage and install the Century accelerator linkage.   

[MCHinson]

This morning, I removed the incorrect throttle linkage and installed the original one from the Century. It fit and functioned exactly as it should. I installed the ignition switch by loosening the three bolts that secure the steering gear to the frame, sliding the switch down the column, installing the two bolts that attach the switch assembly to the dash support panel and then tightening the three bolts that hold the steering gear to the chassis.  I then installed the small floor panel that surrounds the brake and clutch pedals.

 

While inside, I decided to move to the back seat area and remove the two rear seat arm rest assemblies and clean out that area since I had not previously removed the last remaining dust, dirt, and etc. behind those asemblies. Removal involves removing one screw that holds the top wood piece to the side of the body, removing any upholstery nails that are holding them into place and gently lifting them upward to lift them out. These assemblies are among the most fragile parts of the car. One of them was unbroken. The other came out in two pieces. It will be easy to fix. Both of the ones in the original Century body were both broken into multiple pieces. They are made out of some type of fiber board and two pieces of wood and were certainly not designed to last 80 years.  

 

[MCHinson]

This morning I decided to work on the dash a little bit. I opened up the box containing the reproduction map light cover and discovered that I was not quite happy with the paint fill on the part. I used a sharp object and cleaned up the areas that should be paint filled a bit so that the paint would have a more uniform appearance and then I repainted the area and wiped off the excess paint. It is not quite perfect but I think it looks much better now. Then I cleaned up and painted the center screen. I have seen many different types of coverings on this screen. I have seen similar cars with plain black screens, chrome screens, wicker over the screens, and cloth over the screens. I am not sure which is correct. For now, I am going with a plain black painted screen until I find out what is correct. I then decided to buff the dash center chrome pieces. I only took one before photo, but I think it shows the improvement. I then assembled all of those parts into the dash. I may decide to rechome all of that at some time in the future, but for now, I am happy with it. It is probably as good as the chrome on my 1937 Century, and I have never thought that I needed to rechrome that one. 

[MCHinson]

This morning I decided to remove the upholstery from the rear seat cushion. It is clear that there had been some rodent activity in the seat cushion at some time in the past. Before this morning, I was fairly certain that the seat covering was not original to the car and I did not think it is an authentic pattern for the car. After my disassembly,  I am not quite as sure. It is possible that someone replaced only the outer covering on the seats without removing the original burlap, padding and other components, but I am convinced that a lot of what I disassembled this morning is original to the car. I even found part of a 1937 Fisher Body document embedded in the upholstery material. The back of the document looks like someone was using it as a notepad as there appears to be a list of items that are all crossed off, although I can't make out any of the words on the paper all these years later. I will let the photos tell the story. I would be happy for any experienced upholstery folks who have any comments to make explaining what I found in the upholstery.  There are some small pieces of some type of green vinyl like material attached to the bottom of metal seat frame assembly. There is one pieces of denim material tied around the bottom of the seat assembly. There is a small metal identification tag attached to the bottom of the metal seat frame assembly.  

[Roger Zimmermann]

Unfortunately, I don't have a response to your questions. However, I can imagine that, if the upholstery was worn, a trim shop (sorry, I don't have a better world) would take the worn or damaged elements out, redo something according to the directives of the owner and reinstall it to the existing structure without touching at the springs and padding. By looking at the metal tag, I have the impression that it's original. That car was stored in very good conditions, the metal structure is almost free of rust.

[MCHinson]

In the past, I have used a small wire feed welder with flux core wire. I have had the welder for a few years for occasional small jobs. My research told me that for this job, I really needed to switch to solid core wire with a bottle of shielding gas. It is much better for the 18 gauge metal found in auto bodies. Last week, I bought a roll of solid core wire and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 shielding gas for my welder. As soon as I started to hook it up, I discovered that the gas regulator was defective. I ordered a replacement regulator. The regulator arrived over the weekend. 

 

This morning, I installed the regulator and spent a little bit of time practicing with the welder. After that, I decided to use it to weld up the firewall holes from the incorrect heater that was on the Special Body. As inexperienced as I am, I still spent more time grinding than welding, but I guess I was grinding off much better looking welding beads than I did when I was welding with the flux core wire.

 

[Roger Zimmermann]

When I restored my '56 Biarritz, I had a friend who helped me with welding. My first tentatives, with the same system as you have now, were...marginal. However, at the end of the job, I could weld pretty well. Grinding the weld is taking a long time; I noticed that too!

[MCHinson]

This morning, I welded up the two holes in the firewall where the incorrect Motorola radio box had been bolted to the firewall. I then decided to remove the upholstery from the rear seat back. I removed quite a bit of mouse nest residue from the seat back assembly. Like the rear seat bottom cushion, it appears to have had an incorrect seat cover stapled on at some time in the past, but the underlying padding, burlap and other upholstery materials appear to be original to the seat. I took quite a few photos to help me when I reupholster the seat in the near future. There were a few small scraps of material that I think are the original seat covering material that I will try to match when I choose the replacement fabric.  I took one photo of some of the original upholstery tacks that held the burlap onto the wooden seat frame. 

[kgreen]

That is interesting to see just the front row of coils being wrapped in burlap.  I was waiting to see if the coils were individually wrapped.  On the '40 front seat each coil is wrapped.  I don't know about the back seat.  Thanks for the illustrations.

[pont35cpe]

17 hours ago, MCHinson said:

In the past, I have used a small wire feed welder with flux core wire. I have had the welder for a few years for occasional small jobs. My research told me that for this job, I really needed to switch to solid core wire with a bottle of shielding gas. It is much better for the 18 gauge metal found in auto bodies. Last week, I bought a roll of solid core wire and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 shielding gas for my welder. As soon as I started to hook it up, I discovered that the gas regulator was defective. I ordered a replacement regulator. The regulator arrived over the weekend. 

 

This morning, I installed the regulator and spent a little bit of time practicing with the welder. After that, I decided to use it to weld up the firewall holes from the incorrect heater that was on the Special Body. As inexperienced as I am, I still spent more time grinding than welding, but I guess I was grinding off much better looking welding beads than I did when I was welding with the flux core wire.

 

When I changed my mig from flux core to gas my first thought was "where has this been all my life".. Pure weld, no slag.. so much better.

[MCHinson]

This morning I only had a short time to work on the Buick project. Most of the day was spent transporting all of the trophies, registration table supplies and other related items to the show site for tomorrow's Cape Fear Chapter AACA 46th Annual Meet. It looks like it will be a good day for a car show but it will be a bit cooler day than we have been having for most of the past few weeks. It will only be in the low 60's, Sunny, with a bit of wind. Today it was really windy most of the day, but tomorrow should be much better for the show.

 

I took the front seat assembly outside and removed the seat covering. Like the back seat, it is clear that the seat covering is a later replacement but the rest of the upholstery materials appear to be original to the car. I removed most of the upholstery materials, residue from a previous rodent infestation, and quite a bit of dust and dirt. I also found the remains of a small piece of heavy duty paper with some numbers written on it that was tacked to the bottom left front corner of the wooden seat frame. When I have more time, I need to do a bit more clean up of the seat frame but I did get most of it cleaned up.  

[MCHinson]

Friday afternoon, I was busy with setting up for our local AACA Chapter's Annual Car Show. On Saturday, I drove my 1937 Buick to the show and was busy during the entire show since I am in charge of Registration, Judging, Trophy Setup, and I also serve as the Announcer for the awards presentation ceremony. This morning, I was still cleaning up the garage and putting away show related supplies and equipment. I did have a little bit of time to work on the Buick project. I finished cleaning up the front seat back and frame. I removed the rest of the old padding materials and pulling out all of the tacks out of the seat frame.  

[MCHinson]

This morning, I was able to finish cleaning up the bottom front seat cushion. I was amazed at how many hidden sections of the springs were full of the remains of rodent nests. After quite a bit of work, I think they are all gone now. I removed the padding from the top of the cushion. The majority of the padding came off easily by simply cutting the thread that holds it together but the outer sections that were attached with metal clips took a little bit longer to disassemble. Most of the clips look as good as the day they were installed but some are rusty from rodent urine. I found two vertical metal bars on the passenger side of the bottom seat frame that were broken. I was able to slide a piece of brass sheet under the area with the broken pieces to insulate and separate the broken pieces from the burlap covering the seat coil springs. I was then able to weld the vertical pieces without starting a fire.  

[chistech]

I reupholster earlier cars but will relate what I see in your pictures. I've also had cars come in that had been reupholstered right over the original finish upholstery, not just the original padding. Any original panels will be down with tacks and not staples. The hog rings look correctly spaced and in the proper locations so that's a good reason to believe they are original. Most modern upholsters just ring the burlap and other areas where they seem fit. I've also found many original seats with odd ball pieces of material not related to the seat fabric. I believe the factory upholsters simply grabbed scraps to make straps, or hog ring binders when they needed. I've often found roofing material in seats to do just that. They would wrap an area that they didn't want to move or slide on a seat frame with some of the roof or vinyl then secure it with a hog ring. My guess would be that material was stickier and more likely to stay put than a fabric. I've also only seen wrapped coils in original springs. Some are with a cotton/ T shirt type material and some with burlap. Almost always the cotton ones have rusted coils as the burlap probably breathed better and would dry out easier if gotten wet. When it comes to rodents, I have a petrified collection of friends on a shelf if you can believe it so I can show my customers who was traveling with them. Rodents will burrow into any area they want and often chew wood in an area that's tight for them to get by. Once they open it up enough to squeeze by, it seems they stop chewing on it. If you see chewed areas anywhere, there will usually be a rodent nest close by. With the wood cars I've seen corners of exposed wood chewed off because the rodents wanted access. I've had original covered coils with tunnels chewed from one end to the other. If the rodent remnants are very old and dry, they shouldn't be a problem. If they are within the last 5yrs, they will be and the residual residue can be harmful to you and anyone in the car. There should be NO rodent odor whatsoever present once you're done cleaning preparing your springs for upholstery. If there is, remove all the padding and put new. HC always supplies new padding anyway so I always replace it.  HC also has a few good videos to watch to get the idea on how to do a seat. One important thing is to make sure to stuff extra material on the tops of the seat backs. I'm very particular about nice rounded pleats on the backs of the early cars. Too often I go to shows and see the seat backs with flattened pleats at the top. It is very time consuming to stuff small pieces of wadding in each pleat top to make sure all match. You will also have to do a fair amount of stapling and unstapling to get the seats just right. Again, my knowledge comes from mainly 32's and earlier. Your 38 interior might be much easier. I know a 38 GMC front seat I did already had beaded edges that simply clipped in the bottom of the seat frame. No stapling or even no hog ringing. 

[MCHinson]

Thanks. It is clear that they had previously removed most of the original seat covering, although there were a few small pieces that they left and just covered up. The replacement seat covers were attached with staples. The scraps fo the original seat covering were tacked to the seat frame. The padding was all stitched together every few inches but  was attached around the seat frame all around the outside edges with the split rivet like hardware. I expected tacks and hog rings, but I had never seen that rivet like hardware. They must have been attached with some special tool to bend the ends out to capture the fabric padding and lock it all together. Those things are very hard to bend. I am sure the correct tool would make using them much easier. bending them with pliers would be almost impossible. I have been busy with other projects around the house for a couple of days and hope to get back to the Buick project soon.  

[Spinneyhill]

Here is a handy split rivet setting tool at Snyders.

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/Content/uploads/T4060X-10798-2123.pdf

I made mine out of a couple of bolts and attached them to a pair of vice grips. Makes it very easy. They call it a band lining rivet tool, coz it is for bands on a Model A or T.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

This morning, I decided it was time to finish removing the remaining cloth materials from the interior of the body. There were a few scraps of materials around the doors as well as the windlace around each door. The windlace appears to have been replaced at some time in the past as it was attached with some newer and slightly differently designed tacks from the rest of the interior panels. I removed all of the original tacks in the tack strip on the doors and around the doors. I then decided to remove the headliner. I knew from the staining and sags that I was going to find the remains of a rodent nest in the headliner and I was not disappointed. The metal headliner bows in the front simply slide into place, with the headliner bow pockets fitting over sharp spear like protrusions in the roof bows. The back three headliner bows fit into small vertical holes that I would have never realized were there in the body if it was not for removing the headliner. I used a sharpie marker to mark the location so I can easily locate the holes when I am installing the replacement headliner. All of the original cloth materials have now been removed from the cars except for the burlap on the seat springs. There is absolutely no mouse odor left in the car, although I plan to find some disinfectant spray to treat the burlap sometime soon and then let the springs sit out in the sun for a while. For the time being, I took the headliner outside and sprayed it down with a garden hose on both sides and draped it over a fence to dry in the sun today.   

[MCHinson]

This morning, I decided to get started on my preparation for the body work needed. The largest area of missing metal is the trunk tool shelf. It seems like the best place to start. Both ends of the tool shelf were rusted away. I used a wire wheel, an angle grinder, a small pneumatic grinder, and a chisel to remove the thinest metal and remains of undercoating to get back to some metal that I should be able to weld to. I then made a carboard template so I could transfer the shape needed to some sheet metal to fabricate a patch panel. I then marked the metal for cutting. I need to take the metal to a friend who has a plasma cutter to let him cut the metal pieces for me in the near future.  

[MCHinson]

This morning I did a couple of random jobs on the Buick. I cleaned up the jack parts that I have and tested the fuel gauge sending unit. I hooked up my VOM to the unit and repeatedly moved the float up and down. The sending unit seems to work according to my VOM but it is not totally reliable and consistent, so I think I will be replacing the sending unit. I was able to lubricate the jack assembly and get it where it will move up and down like it should but there was one fairly major broken chip on the jack assembly so I decided to repair it using Grey Marine Tex. I wrapped the rod with paper and applied the Marine Tex. The piece that is broken is not structural so even with this repair, the jack should be functional (or at least as functional as it was when new). I don't actually intend to use the jack but I do want it to look correct. After the Marine Tex hardens, I will rehape the patched area to match the contour of the surrounding area and then I can paint it.    

[MCHinson]

This morning, I used a file to clean off the excess marine tex on the jack assembly. Now I just need to find or recreate the collar with bumper hook that fits over that part of the jack assembly.  I also used some wood glue on a crack in the wood jack base. I then put some clamps on it to hold it until the glue can dry.  I decided it would be easier to work on the bottom door panel on the right rear door with the door off of the car. I had a hinge remover left over from my Model A Ford days. The top of it was too small for the top of the hinge pin to pass though it, but I was able to apply it to the hinge pin and then use a hammer to tap the pin up. It appears to be a bit easier to do this than to simply use a punch on the bottom of the hinge pin.  I was able to get one pin out wihout any problem but the second one did not want to move. I applied some solvent to the door hinges so I can give that another try tomorrow.  

[MCHinson]

This morning, I removed the bottom hinge pin. I  found a large nut that the top of the hinge pin could pass through and put it between the top of the hinge and the hinge pin remover. With that, although a bit unstable, I was able to get the hinge pin moving. I then simply used a punch and a hammer to finish removing the hinge pin. I then removed the nut from the door check strap and then removed the right rear door. I removed the door and took it outside. I used an an angle grinder to remove the bondo that the previous owner had used on the bottom of the door as well as all of the surrounding thin area of metal. I then applied ospho to the inner panels of the door. It looks like I am making backwards progress, but I would prefer to get all of the bondo out so I can repair any past repairs with real metal instead of bondo. 

 

A week or so ago, I finally gave up on the local radiator shop that had not been making any progress on my radiator. This afternoon I made a trip to a small town a little less than an hour away and dropped off my radiator and gas tank. I think that this small town shop will be able to do what I need done in a reasonable time frame at an affordable price. I guess time will tell. 

[MCHinson]

This morning, I started attempting to remove the left rear door to be able to prepare for metal repair on the bottom of the door. Initially, the bottom hinge pin just did not want to move. I reapplied some solvent and gave it a bit of time. While I was waiting, I decided to work on the hand throttle cable due to a recent question about that in another discussion on the AACA Discussion Forum. When I removed it from the car, it was rusted solid. I have had it soaking in solvent in a gallon paint can for quite some time. I opened up the can and removed the cable this morning to find that the cable was no longer frozen. I used a wire wheel to clean the remaining rust off of the exterior of the cable assembly. I then used Spray on Galvanizing Compound to make the exterior of the cable assembly look like new and hung it up to dry. Later I checked and while I still need to get a replacement knob, the hand throttle cable looks and works great.  

 

After a while, I was able to finally remove the bottom hinge pin and then used an angle grinder to get rid of all signs of thin and rusty metal in the lower door skin. I then applied ospho liberally to the inside fo the door panel. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

There are vehicles not so old which have more severe rust issues...You are lucky!

[MCHinson]

Roger,

 

The car was left outside for over 20 years and the original body had much more rust. This is a replacement body that I found that was in much better shape. I don't think I would have been able to repair the original body. It just had too much rust for me to deal with it. 

[chistech]

Just so you know know digital VOMs do not react that well to the rheostats on our gas gauges. I keep an old needle type meter I got from radio shack years back just for those tests. Same thing when testing heater switches and light dimmers in our cars. Often pulling the top off the sender, cleaning up the rheostat coil, the contact tip, then applying dielectric grease to the tip will fix any issues with the sender. Don’t forget to change out the cork floats. I had a pair simply disintegrate from the new gas. Often when looking for modern replacement floats it seems many are always sold out. The small aircraft supply houses always have them. 

[MCHinson]

Thanks. I might check it out a bit further. I still have a cheap needle type VOM in my on the road toolkit in the trunk of my 1937 Century.  

[MCHinson]

Starting today, my photos should look a little bit better since I am now using a refurbished Nikon D5100 that I recently bought on Ebay. My previous Nikon D3000 camera works fine in outdoor lighting but something happened to it some time back that causes flash photographs to not be illuminated properly as they used to be. 

 

Today I removed the front doors. The first step is to remove the nut from the door check strap. This is easy to do with the door open by simply using a wrench or a ratchet. It is important to remember to remove this before you remove the hinge pins. Trying to use a hammer and a punch to remove hinge pins previously was difficult. It is difficult to hold a punch on the bottom of the hinge pin when it sticks down below the surface of the hinge. This morning I tried a few other methods of removing door hinge pins. I am sure that the best way would be to use a hinge pin remover that is large enough to fit these hinge pins. I will not mention the couple of ways I tried that did not work well but here is the easiest way that I have found with the tools that I have. Holding an old sledge hammer head that I had against the bottom of the hinge pin and strking it with a few blows from another hammer forces the hinge pin upwards slightly until the bottom of the pin is flush with the surface of the bottom of the hinge. After the initial movement, it is then quite easy to take a punch and tap the pin upwards and out of the hinge. The second photo is an attempt to demonstrate how this first step works since you really can't see it in the first photos. Even with a couple of other unsuccessful method attempts, I was able to remove the two front doors much more quickly than I was able to previously remove the two rear doors. These doors will take no or almost no metal work but I thought I should take them off to be better able to work on them.