mikewest

Early magneto coupling needed- see pictures

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This drum shaped magneto drive must of had a another sleeve that could clamp tightly over this piece. The straight flat spline was used to adjust the timing. Im missing the piece that clamps over this drum and connects the mag . Does anone recognize this type drive? The OD of the drum measures 1.250 inches.   I hate to remove this drum and use a modern coupling. Thank you Mike West 585 738 1541 (PS The motor is a 1911 Wisconsin Model L,  T head 6.)

wisconsin mag drive 1.jpg

wisc mag drive 2.jpg

wisc mag drive 3.jpg

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There were in those days a flexible coupling that had similar hub on both the shafts and a piece of hose between them. Clamps held the hose tight to the hub. It had the necessary universal joint feature and allowed for easy change of timing. The OD of your piece is probably a common tubing/hose size.

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Mike, you do realize a round hub the outside diameter of the splined hub with ONE key could slip over this and work? Maybe a set screw to hold it in place. It would be quick and dirty but safe to drive the mag. Your dog to couple to the other one could be welded or bolted to that hub. You would probably need a leather disc between the two dogs. 

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 0:16 PM, Layden B said:

There were in those days a flexible coupling that had similar hub on both the shafts and a piece of hose between them. Clamps held the hose tight to the hub. It had the necessary universal joint feature and allowed for easy change of timing. The OD of your piece is probably a common tubing/hose size.

Layden, Chocolate Town,  Thank you much for your views on this matter. I was going to remove this piece, but after these two new emails I am leaving it alone and adapt to it. I had a preconceived notion that I was missing a piece that had all those splines internally but after reading yours and Chocolate Towns response's , I admit Im most likely wrong.  I ham going to fashion a sleeve or rubber that will go over this hub and get the motor running. Thank you!! Mike

Here is a shot of my Wisconsin  T head 6. Bore 5.185 x 5.5 inches

 

thead2.jpg

Edited by mikewest (see edit history)

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Mike, how do you plan to attach the drive dog to the rubber? If you used a piece of aluminum bar stock, bored a blind hole big enough to slide over the splined coupler and put one key in it you could bolt the drive to it. A set screw over the key would hold the aluminum coupler in place. 

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Yup, I got that part. But there has to be another little propeller thing 90 degrees from the one already on the mag for the fiber disc  bolt to. Or maybe I see something different?

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Mike, I take it the Mag isn't original to the engine. Here is a photo of the mag coupling on  a model "M" Wisconsin of the same era as your engine.  My later (1926) Wisconsin doesn't have the "spider" type rig that your mag has. Its uses an AT-6 mag with a fiber disk.

DSC01226.JPG

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Mike... I just had an idea on this. How about a sleeve with a key in it the width of one of the grooves in the spline and 2 soft point set screws at 180 degrees. The key would catch one of the grooves and be entirely adjustable while the set screws would keep it tight without marring the drum.

 

Edit... I just realized someone already proposed this. I should read more carefully.

 

jp

Edited by JV Puleo
error on my part (see edit history)

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On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:32 PM, Terry Harper said:

Mike, I take it the Mag isn't original to the engine. Here is a photo of the mag coupling on  a model "M" Wisconsin of the same era as your engine.  My later (1926) Wisconsin doesn't have the "spider" type rig that your mag has. Its uses an AT-6 mag with a fiber disk.

DSC01226.JPG

Terry, The mag wasn't with the motor when I got it . Im going to use the idea Joe and Chocolate town spoke of . Im working on the project every day now that Im good enough to go to the shop.Its great to hear from you!

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I just thought of an even easier way...

 

A collar that is a slip fit over the splined drum... very close but not "tight"

Measure the width of the splines and get some "dog point" set screws that will fit into the spline. Put two of those, in line, on one side of the collar.

On the opposite side put a larger "soft point" set screw. They are made with Nylon, Brass and Silver tips. I generally prefer Brass when it's contacting a smooth surface and Nylon when the set screw goes up against threads.

 

This should be relatively easy to make and saves making a special key to match the width of the spline.

 

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Thanks Joe, Ill send you the measurements..... smile... just kidding .Another great idea! Im going to use it!

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Go ahead and send them... I'm game. I'll have to figure out how to do the tapered hole with key way for the mag though... I've an idea for that too.

 

Edit... I just remembered, I think I have an incomplete impulse starter. I could make it out of one of those. Actually, since it doesn't have a starter, I'd bet that splined drum was used with one in the first place.

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)

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Hello Mike,

 

I figured out your magneto coupling. It was a design developed and patented by Arthur J. Milbrath that was granted in 1916. Milbrath was the founding partner of Wisconsin Motor Manufacturing Co. There would have been a two split collar with grooves that match your surviving cog type gear. This in turn was bolted to a drive disk keyed, pinned or interference fitted (drawing is not clear) to the magneto. How many years Wisconsin used this design is not known but I can tell you its the first time I have ever come across it.

 

It would be awesome to find an original or fabricate a replica. Certainly an interesting and unique coupling!

 

Attached is the PDF file of the Patent.

 

Best regards,

 

Terry

 

US1195250.pdf

Coupling.jpg

Edited by Terry Harper (see edit history)

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That's a pretty clever design Terry, but it looks like it would be a bear to copy.

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:37 PM, Terry Harper said:

Hello Mike,

 

I figured out your magneto coupling. It was a design developed and patented by Arthur J. Milbrath that was granted in 1916. Milbrath was the founding partner of Wisconsin Motor Manufacturing Co. There would have been a two split collar with grooves that match your surviving cog type gear. This in turn was bolted to a drive disk keyed, pinned or interference fitted (drawing is not clear) to the magneto. How many years Wisconsin used this design is not known but I can tell you its the first time I have ever come across it.

 

It would be awesome to find an original or fabricate a replica. Certainly an interesting and unique coupling!

 

Attached is the PDF file of the Patent.

 

Best regards,

 

Terry

 

US1195250.pdf

Coupling.jpg

Terry, That's neat you found this. Now with this development , I need to figure out what to do or how to copy. I am going to post some pics soon of my project.Im making good progress now that Im in the shop everyday. Thanks again. Mike

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Mike, picture two pieces like Figure 4. BUT instead of several teeth the bores would be a slip fit to the outside of the splined sprocket. NOW, one of those pieces gets a slot for a removable key. From the pictures it appears like about 1/8 inch key, so the slot would be 1/16 deep and 1/8 wide. Bolt the two pieces together and insert the key wherever to adjust the timing, tighten up the two halves like a connecting rod to hold it in place. 1/8 inch is a guess, measure the sprocket slot width and depth accurately. 

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I think since Terry went through the efforts to find this drawing , I should get the parts made per the print.  Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and comments.

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Hi Mike,

If your not in a big hurry it would make a great project for some of my students. At the very least you would end-up with a set of shop drawings

and perhaps even the patterns. Meanwhile I am sure you can come-up with a temporary solution (hose method perhaps so you can get the

beast running.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Best regards,

 

Terry

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A friend in Calf shared some pics tonight with me of his Wisconsin motors and what he has for mag drives... Low and behold here are two examples  (different but both are locked to the same splined drum I have)  that he has on his motors. Im on the right track now to make copies. Thank you to all who responded. Mike

wisconsin mag drive 1.jpg

magneto drive part that lew dobbins has  now.JPG

magneto drive lew dobbins has.JPG

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Mike,

If you decide to get those parts cast, I'd be interested in a set. I just thought of something I could use them for.

I think I'd have them cast in 356T6 aluminum... easier to machine and almost as strong as mild steel, certainly stronger than they need to be to drive a mag.

 

jp

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Mike:

 

If you are interested, I have these NOS magneto couplings for sale.

 

My father purchased them from Fenstermacher Automobile Supply here in Minneapolis about 65 years ago.

 

 

Couplings 1.JPG

Couplings 2.JPG

Couplings 3.JPG

Edited by E_Johnson
Trying to post photos. (see edit history)

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I sent a private message to mikewest on Sept. 12 but did not hear back from him so I presume he is not interested in them.

 

If anyone else is interested in the mag couplings I posted on Sept 11 above, feel free to send me a private message.  Price is $80, includes USPS postage with tracking.

 

Here are the measurements - six pieces total:

 

Two notched spacers are 1 1/2" diameter, 7/8" bore, 9/16" length

 

The four couplers are 1 1/2" diameter at the spline end and 1" diameter at the opposite end.

 

Two of the couplers have 3/8" bores (one coupler is drilled for a side pin).  Length of each coupler is 1" excluding the splines.

 

One coupler has a 5/8" bore and is drilled for a side pin.  Length of coupler is 1" excluding the spline.

 

One coupler has a tapered bore - 5/8" narrowing down to 1/2" at the spline end and is machined/notched for a key. Length of couple is 3/4" excluding splines.

 

The above can be mixed and matched with either spacer for whatever combination you would need.  Also, obviously the bores could be drilled out to accept a larger shaft if required, etc.

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