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Beemon

Thinking about making a fuel cell...

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I've been teasing this idea now since I've experienced some vapor lock. This fuel pump I had gotten a while ago has the same thread pitch as the pilot hole for my old Luber-Finer 200S. I'm a bit skeptical about this setup, however. First, would an inline pump be okay submersed in gasoline? I also want to put a pressure regulator on it, would that also be okay submersed in gasoline? They look like sealed units... I can't find any pump that's not for EFI that would be in tank pumps. The whole idea behind this is that the Luber-Finer canister is filled with gasoline by the mechanical pump and restricted with a needle and seat, and then the electric pump picks up from the bottom of the canister and feeds fuel to the carburetor. I would then drill three holes into the cap - two for the wire leads and one for a vent. The needle and seat would restrict fuel from reaching the top rim.

 

Maybe I'm just being foolish here, but I've wanted to go to some type of fuel injection down the road and this would set up that swap pretty nicely. Thoughts, opinions?

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 Ben, I am unsure if you would gain anything. The "vapor lock" is more likely percolation in the carb float chamber.  In my opinion.  As you know, I have a throttle body fuel injection on my Straight eight.  Works like a champ.  Came from Affordable Fuel Injection in MI.  I'll bet a system from a '90s Buick could be made to work. My '92 Roadmaster is TBI, as was the "94 wagon I had. I realize these are "chevy" engines, but we won't tell.

 

  Ben

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You could put a canister filled with ICE, and run coiled fuel line in it,  did that in the 50's, but only works at the drag strip.

 

Dale in Indy 

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Vapor lock occurs on the suction side of a fuel pump.  Put the electric external near the gas tank.  Submerge it and it may be a bomb.

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Talk about a bomb.  We owned and rented rental trucks.  The large ones had 50 saddle fuel tanks,  trucks had to be returned with fuel up near the top of the SHORT fuel fill spot.  One DARK night a fellow returned one, and I walked out to check it in.  He unscrewed the filler cap, reached for his cig lighter to show me it was full.  I pushed his hand away, and said NEVER DO THAT UNKESS YOU WANT TO DIE.

 

He then realized how dumb that would have been.

 

Dale in Indy

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On 8/7/2017 at 6:29 PM, old-tank said:

Vapor lock occurs on the suction side of a fuel pump.  Put the electric external near the gas tank.  Submerge it and it may be a bomb.

Agreed

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I have no idea why, but you cannot buy in-tank fuel pumps for carburetors. Fuel injection pumps are pretty iffy at best. I called Airtex and they said not to submerge, so I guess you'd have to go with a really expensive fuel injection pump that you buy over the counter for a modern V8, and then the accompanying expensive fuel pressure regulator since most regulators are in the tank, then find a way to decrease pressure to 5 psi. Looks like another "decent idea in theory, way too much work to get right" type deal from me, again.

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...never stop thinking, plotting, scheming about new/different ways...

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I think Molotov Fuel Systems has what you are looking for. The white paper is well written: www.molotovfuel.com .

 

Another source if you are doing home experiments is this manual: https://uniteyouthdublin.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/anarchist-cookbook-william-powell.pdf

 

And don't leave out Hiram Percy Maxim's early experiences. I still pick that one up and read a few pages.

 

Fuel your enthusiasm.

 

Bernie

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Fiteck make exactly what you are talking about, they call it their "command centre"

 

The fuel pump you have is all you need for a carbie. Mount it near the fuel tank as low as possible and unless you really like the noise it makes. be sure to rubber mount it.

 

As for wiring, I strongly suggest its wired through an oil pressure switch so it wont work unless there is oil pressure. If you don't know why, just think what would happen if the car fell over

 

 

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Ttotired, I've read the reviews on the command center,  "what you pay for is what you get" applies. Edelbrock has their own sump, which is pretty pricey, but there have been no reported issues with it.

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Electric pump close to the tank. On/off switch under the dash. On: To fill carb prior to start or if vapor lock is suspected. Off: After start and for normal operation.

No fuel pump noise. Ends dry carb cranking. Ends vapor lock. Inexpensive. No need for oil pressure switch. No muss no fuss. Works very well and lasts a long time. What's not to like?.........Bob 

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When I saw what you proposed, my first thought was "A home-grown version of the Fuel Command Center, but low pressure".  

 

It IS possible for hot fuel issues under the hood, especially IF the fuel line is near a hot, radiating engine part, BUT as noted, the place "vapor lock" happens is well BEHIND the engine compartment, usually.  You might increase the fuel density a little with a chilled pump under the hood, but how are you going to regenerate the chilling effect of ice after it melts in July/August?  Unless you chill the fuel in a Yeti cooler?

 

I got my new Summit Catalog yesterday. I noticed a selection of three auxiliary fuel pumps.  One was for about 4.5 psi pressure and about $40.00.    ONLY drive on concrete roadways, rather than dark asphalt.  Roadway temperatures will be less and heat radiated up and absorbed by the fuel tank will be less.  Putting a shiny silver coating on the underside of the fuel tank might help, too.

 

IF you can figure out some way to decrease the fuel temperature in the tank, then insulate the fuel line going to the front in some manner, maintain that cooler fuel at the lower temperature all the way to the carb, you MIGHT discover how to make all of that happen.

 

Another thing would be to plumb a return line to the fuel tank, from the pre-carb area of the fuel line, under the hood.  Chevrolet and Chrysler products used such a separator in the later 1960s and early 1970s.  OR you can figure out how to adapt a later 3-line fuel pump to the Nailhead.  End result is a constantly moving stream of fuel between the tank and fuel pump, which spends less time in the line to absorb heat and vaporize.

 

Just don't build a whitting time bomb under the hood of your Buick!

 

Use that LuberFiner housing to fill with cool water, then use a windshield washer pump to pump water to some nozzles placed near the length of fuel line.  When the evil vapor appears, then douse it with jets of water spray to cool the fuel line.  MIght work better than clothes pins!  And easier to do that find an ice cream store with a car that won't run right!  You can fine-tune the water mixture to also use a bit of alcohol for an additional cooling affect.

 

If you want to be "higher tech", you can use some sensors to check the fuel temperature and pressure.  When the sensors exceed any parameters, the water spray happens automatically, then shuts off when fuel pressure consistently returns or the temperature decreases.  AND a "low water sensor" and warning light would be needed.

 

NTX5467 

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Here's the way I figure it. If you are young enough to be in the reproductive part of your life and if an unfortunate incident occurs there could be a Darwin-ish species benefit. An old guy like me, it is just a net neutral experience.

 

Some day, in the next four years, you can paraphrase that on an engineering paper and probably get an A in objectivity.

Bernie

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I believe  chev vega's  had in tank fuel pumps on a normal carb if that's enough volume for you  bos

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1969 Buick Riviera's are the first American car I remember with a factory in-tank electric fuel pump.

 

The Brits used external ones for a long time. My 1980's Jaguar XJ6 and S cars had an inertia switch mounted on the left side door post.

 

Lots of details to think about.

Bernie

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On 8/9/2017 at 0:04 AM, Beemon said:

I have no idea why, but you cannot buy in-tank fuel pumps for carburetors.

 Sure you can. 1974 or so Chevrolet Vega. Several ones to choose from on the Rock Auto website.

 

Now, you will need the special in tank fuel hose, as regular SAE 30R9 (and lower numbers) hose swells in gasoline. You need SAE 30R10.

 

And of course a way to get a hot wire into the tank to power it!:o   If you have an old sending unit, you can steal the grommet assembly for the fuel gauge sender and re-purpose it.

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30 some years ago I had a 56 Chev 210 2dr that had a very nice amateur resto on. Stock down to the 265 two bbl powerglide combo. On a family outing to silver falls state park in Oregon state towing a 20 ft travel trailer we were having constant vapor lock issues. Looking in the trailer for tinfoil, I had enough to wrap the fuel line in the vicinity of the exhaust system which solved the problem immediately. Rest of trip to the lake and back home was uneventful. Maybe look at a simple solution before going to a lot of expense and time. FWIW

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This fuel pump is available on Ebay............Carter  60504 (2-4 psi) 60430 (4-6 psi) comes with filter

must be used all the time, not for just starting, design does not allow pull thru.

compact and sells for $30-$40

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