Early 1920s Studebaker ?

[Stude Light]

4 hours ago, studeboy said:

Here is the page from the parts book for 1919 to 1922 models. This shows bodies and colors. What is interesting is that they do not

show any 1920 right hand drive Light Sixes???

 

As mentioned before, I have found a number of errors and inconsistencies in the parts manuals so don't take it all as gospel. Bernie's car just added another. For instance, the first edition of Parts Catalog Book 3 only lists body part number 46010 which is the black version in the later printing.

And then again the later book is missing all the Light Six serial number info. And neither shows Light Six exports.

 

Just pointing out it is not an exact science. We just do our best and learn. I'm very interested in Bernie's car as it appears a lot of it is in original condition. 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

A little better shot of the page Studeboy posted.

[Stude Light]

A picture out of this book

Showing the RHD EJ which would suggest that the Light Six came in Right Hand Drive bodies in 1920

Edited September 27, 2017 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

But there are areas of Bernie's car that are inconsistant. The radiator shell...my early and later parts manual (book 3) all list the same part number for the radiator shell which were only painted. They changed to a new part number in 1923 as the design changed to add the beltline but again, painted. In 1924, they added another part number and you could get nickel or painted.

 

The entire windshield support and frame is all nickel plated as is the light bar.  Again, inconsistant with the parts book and all other Light Sixes.

 

So how did these parts get nickel plated? Someone nickel plated it...was it before or after it left the factory. We may never know.

 

The hood has a similar inconsistency as it shares the same part number from 1920-1922 (again in both versions of book 3) but Bernie's is different from all the 1921 and 1922 cars and brochures as it has the extra louvers that came out in 1923.

 

Then you have the rear fender guards and the trim piece that wraps the car. This is the reason I think the body came from another process outside of South Bend. I'll have to call Andrew Beckman and better understand the documentation for the Walkerville plant and the exports. 

 

[Guest trap442w30]

My curtains had the half turn fasteners inserted back to front also.  It turns out they attached on the inside of the windshield frame with the "outside" material against the frame, but the sides were attached with the "inside" material against the outside of the door.  I'm sure it will be obvious when you get the rest of the parts.  Keep in mind, even if it is in good shape, it could have shrunk and might not reach all the pins.

Edited September 27, 2017 by trap442w30 (see edit history)

[oldcar]

I am very interested to see the page showing the layout for the "R.H.C. Magneto. I am not sure what the R.H.C. refers to. My car has an American Bosch DU6 (ED18) mag fitted which looks like an original fitment.

Below are a replies received from Andrew Beckman to my requests for information.

For the time being I have resisted the temptaions to pay the $30 per hour especially in the light of his statement that their archives do not hold Vehicle specific data.

I got the impression any further communication would not be really welcome and the suggested $30 per hour fee was intended to put me off making any further enquiry.

Perhaps being an "Old Age Pensioner"on a limited income, makes me reluctant to throw money after lost causes, especially at $30 per hour with no apparent limit on the time required.

Bj.

 

 

On 25 Sep 2017, at 11:12 PM, Andrew Beckman <abeckman@studebakermuseum.org> wrote:

Dear Mr. Jacobson,

I can tell you it was built in South Bend early in the model year - it was the 2,243 Light Six built.

Beyond that, I'm sorry to report that we do not have vehicle-specific data from that era.

Sincerely,

Andrew Beckman
Archivist
Studebaker National Museum 
201 S. Chapin St.
South Bend, IN 46601
(574) 235-9714
studebakermuseum.org

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence – Vince Lombardi

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernard Jacobson [mailto:wordpress@studebakermuseum.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 1:57 AM
To: Andrew Beckman <abeckman@studebakermuseum.org>
Subject: Studebaker National Museum Website Inquiry: Research Requests

From: Bernard Jacobson <twooldlags@gmail.com>
Subject: abeckman@studebakermuseum.org

Message Body:
Good Morning
I have only recently purchased a 1920 Studebaker Light Six, Serial Number 1002243 Engine Number 2350 It was delivered new in Melbourne Australia. It has a standard five seat tourer body. Are you able to give me any information as to where it was constructed and date.
It was last used on the road in 1941/2 The speedo reads 36016 miles.

Thank you

B Jacobson
11 Glendor Lane
East Doncaster
Victoria 3109
Australia.

--

 

Good Morning Again Andrew

My next question was to be around the origin of the colour "Belgium Blue" . At this time many older people in Australia and New Zealand are reminded of loved ones lost in the battles 100 years ago in Northern France and Belgium. ( ANZACS) I know that there was some involvement of American Soldiers in WW1 too and wonder if the choice of the colour name had some patriotic relevance. My own mother, then a teenager, lost two of her brothers as young soldiers, one in the battles in Flanders.  That war (1914-18) would have been over less than two years by 1920.

Would your archives extend to such things as paint  formulation? My Light Six  still has its original (Belgium) Blue paint with Black on the  wheels and fenders, but after 97 years it does need some small repairs. 

Despite being an Australian living in Australia, I maintain a “Thread” in the Studebaker section of the AACA (Internet) Forum and the question has been asked if the Museum monitors this much used "site” . http://forums.aaca.org/forum/21-studebaker-erskine-rockne/

Thank you

Bernie Jacobson

 

 

Dear Mr. Jacobsen,
 
I’m sorry to report that we do not have color formulations.   We may have some data on LHD/RHD production – research fees are $30/hour, please let us know how you wish to proceed. 
 
We are familiar with the AACA forum, and do visit from time to time. 
 
Thank you!
 
Andrew Beckman
Archivist
Studebaker National Museum
201 S. Chapin St.
South Bend, IN 46601
(574) 235-9714
studebakermuseum.org
 

 

[OnSafari]

RHC = Right Hand Control = Right Hand Drive.

 

Studebaker used the terms RHC v LHC for some time. The Hawk and Lark books I have still used those terms.

[oldcar]

Thank you OnSafari I should have picked that up.

 

 I must be growing old/dim! I am trying to relate the Serial Numbers given in those charts for Export Series 19 Light Six  233501-----257464.# To the best of my ability the serial number on my car is 22?3? putting my serial number before the earliest number shown in the chart.   If you go back to #57 you can see photographs of the plate on the side of the chassis. I do not know if I have any better chance of reading it if I remove it from the chassis. Perhaps it is not important but I would like to know how it fits in with the scheme of things.

Bernie j.

 

#Since Helen has come home, I could zoom in to the required numbers on her iPad and read them easily but this still does not answer my question.

Perhaps we will never know. While we are away next week I will have the opportunity to look at one or two other Light Sixes which may help. I just wish the the man stamping the Serial number on the chassis plate on my car had been a little more heavy handed.

 

Bj.

Edited September 27, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

The 1919 Light Six EH is a totally different car than your 1920 Light Six EJ.  Only the name is similar...sorry for the confusion in the parts manual.  The new 1920 design launched as an EJ model (1920-1922) and was changed to the EM model (1923-1924) probably due to the all steel body design for the touring car, the front door changes, added beltline, etc, They started with an all new serial number naming convention with the EJ model starting with 1,000,001.  Yours is 1,002,243 making it the two-thousand two-hundred and forty-third car produced.  Your engine number is EJ2350, making it the two-thousand two hundred fiftieth engine made.  As mentioned before, the engine s/n didn't exactly match the chassis serial numbers as they had to make extra engines for replacements.  Probably only the first few cars had matching numbers.  I can't find any information showing which serial numbers were exported vs domestic.

[oldcar]

Thank you Stude Light

I appreciate your and all the other's input, as a newcomer to Studebakers I have a great deal to learn. While I have been involved with Vintage Cars for most of my life, every one is different and the Studebaker is no exception. While not attempting a huge body off/bare chassis/ground up  restoration such as I have done in the past, preserving the original is no lesser task and hopefully no less enjoyable!

Right now I am very much tip-toeing around the edges. I feel that it is miraculous that my car has survived so intact after so many years of neglect. Much of my time right now is taken up with my attempts to uncover its history before it is completely lost.  As it is so much is hidden in the mists of time.

 

Bernie j.

Edited September 28, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

Bernie,

I talked to Andy Beckman today to get a feel for how much information may be in the archives from the early 20s. As expected, there isn't a whole lot. They have the original sales brochures, parts manuals, maintenance manuals along with some odds and ends like starting and ending serial number by model year but he doubts anything like the detailed serial number data you might find for a Lark or a Hawk (later years have lots of detailed records). To understand what came out of Walkerville, they have an insurance map of the plant that has some details of what operations were done in various parts of the plant. Where some details may be found would be in something like meeting minutes. From this you may pull a few bits and pieces and put parts of the puzzle together. This is what requires lots of time to look through some of the old documentation and find a few nuggets. I decided I will spend a day at the museum archives and see what I can find in that era....probably late November.

 

Andy's reply on where your car was built came from the fact that all Light Six chassis were made in South Bend. Final assembly for domestics also came out of South Bend but most exports came out of Walkerville after the chassis were shipped there from South Bend.

 

Looking forward to seeing what I can find but expectations are not real high. Regardless, I love history and reading old documents so it will be fun.

Scott

 

 

[oldcar]

2 hours ago, Stude Light said:

Regardless, I love history and reading old documents so it will be fun.

Scott

 

 

 

Hello Again Scott

That makes two of us!

Please pass on to Andrew Beckman  my thanks and appreciation for all he has done. It is difficult being on the other side of the world and relying on emails to communicate. Once I start on a car I become totally immersed. As I am sure I have commented in the past, I have been spoilt by the Lagonda Rapier clan, but I have been involved with them for a very long time and have meet  quite a few of them during our visits to England.

Sadly we have only had the one visit to America and much of that was taken up with the Dixie Flyer and the AACA Anniversary at Louisville 2010 which tended to be just a tad overwhelming.  Who knows we may live long enough to make another visit to the USA but certainly we have nothing planed right now.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello Again

We are back from a very pleasant visit to Northern Victoria and southern New South Wales including Australia's Capital city Canberra. One find during our travells was this Roller-Smith Ammeter made inBethlehem P.A.

It is a brand that I have never encountered and is not from a Studebaker Light Six as far as my limited knowledge goes. It would appear to be early 1920s and apart from some obvious chipping to the paint appears to be in excellent condition. Perhaps someone can tell me which Automobile makers used this brand and in what years. 

 

Bernie j

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

From Feb 1, 1919 Automotive Trade Journal

 

The Light Six used Nagel gauges

 

Interesting that more modern gauges have charge to the right and discharge to the left.  I always have to look twice when driving my car.

Scott

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Thank you Scott

The next little gem discovered in the box of rear view mirrors was this one which will mount onto tne windscreen pillar to balance with the spotlight, complete which with its original convex mirror, which will move to the passenger (left) side of the car. This one has now been given a quick clean before preparing it for painting. The beveled edge glass while slightly tarnished is more than serviceable.

This morning I also discovered another two black leather Lounge Chairs put out for collection to go to 'land fill'. While the cushions were in ruins the leather covering the out side of the arms and backs is in fine condition and will give me sufficient to line the inside of the four door pockets. Making my decision to alway carry a sharp trimming knife in the glove box of my Peugeot a wise one.

While on the subject of interior trim perhaps you can tell me what is the correct covering for the floor in the rear compartment. Currently the foot rest has the remains of a dark red-blue and black "Turkish" design carpet. While probably not original it is a nice idea if I can find a suitable piece of usable second hand carpet. Or would the 'purists' hate me?

 

Bernie j.

.

 

Bernie  j.

Edited October 8, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

It is a short nap, square weave wool carpet. I went with a medium to dark gray. I have several remnants of the original carpeting and they vary from a gray to almost a green (the kind of green you get from a sun bleached black). As long as you are happy with the selection you choose, that's all that matters.

 

With the narrow windshield support on these cars, I find the side view mirrors not very useful. The interior rear view mirror that mounts on the center of the top frame support is much more useful. The car came with no mirrors so anything you add is safer and the two you have will look fine. 

Scott

Edited October 8, 2017 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[oldcar]

 

Thank you Scott

I am more used to driving with side mounted mirrors so I will probably go with what I have got. Will also keep looking for a suitable central mounting one.

I do have two or three pieces of the original carpet from across below the rear seat cushion etc.so I will do some asking around.

I have also included photographs of the (Domestic) Persian or Turkish Carpet on the rear seat foot rest. The slightly exotic feel of this type of design appeals to me as a contrast to the almost "spartan" feel of the rest of the car. Only time and opportunity will tell. A long long time ago I was trained and worked as a Furniture Designer and Interior Decorator/Designer. With everything else either Black Leather Black Linoleum or Black Paint combined with the Dark Blue of the body colour, I feel it needs some type of relief, even if only for the rear seat passengers.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

The two lower pictures look like my original remnants.  The foot rest was originally covered with the same.  The Persian carpeting may have been added by the local dealer or original owner, so originality is what you make of it. It looks period correct.

[AussieStudie]

Hi Bernie

We have been off forum, for a while.  Searching online came across Gary's photo which lead us back to forum, so sorry we missed the start.  We totally understand what you are going through as we have had this journey.  We bought our car back in 2012, we first saw in 2011 and loved but as you can see by photos, just a little rusty, only months later it had been attacked and we knew we had to rescue the more old thing. 

 

Now almost 6 years later, we have researched and learnt a lot and more than happy to talk with you.  Yes, we have emailed Scott many times over the years for his knowledge, as our Australian Studebakers are nothing like the American versions.  Scott often mentioned about the mismatch of parts, we started to email about our "Frankenbaker" restoration.  So welcome to the "Frankenbaker Family".    You certainly have had a much better start.  We are included our Serial Number:  1195889, how great you have the Rego sticker still on car.  We also were lucky to get have the maker plaque:  Canadian Cycle and Motor co, Creek Street, Brisbane.  This was invaluable when researching Studebakers in Australia. We are also lucky to have found original owner family and have a photo of family with car.  We also located the advertisement where Studebaker were on show at Brisbane Royal Show as well as the name of the distributors were car was sold through.    

 

With this research, we were able to finally identify as being a 1923 Australian Colonial Studebaker Tourer, built towards the end of the year.  We totally agree the ID plate stamper, needed some pressure, as you can see in photos our ID plate has had a hard life.   Australian National Library TROVE is also a great way to search old newspapers, just typing in Studebaker 1923 will give y ou an idea and then they are a varierty of search filters, particularly helpful to be able to filter down to Decade and then Year.   If you know a little of history of your car where it was originally from, amazing what you can find.

 

Hopefully you have joined the Historical Studebaker Register of Australia, newsletters are also interesting and informative  and annual member contact register a great way to be able to contact other Australian Studebaker owners.

 

This has been an interesting read and look forward to reading more thoroughly.  Thanks Scott and Gary for mentioning us, has brought back many memories of our early days of "what the heck is this" to now being an amazing beautiful and unique care.....welcome to our special Aussie Studie club.

 

Kind regards, Mark and Lynne Bennett

[Stude Light]

1 hour ago, AussieStudie said:

Hi Bernie

We have been off forum, for a while.  Searching online came across Gary's photo which lead us back to forum, so sorry we missed the start.  We totally understand what you are going through as we have had this journey.  We bought our car back in 2012, we first saw in 2011 and loved but as you can see by photos, just a little rusty, only months later it had been attacked and we knew we had to rescue the more old thing. 

 

Now almost 6 years later, we have researched and learnt a lot and more than happy to talk with you.  Yes, we have emailed Scott many times over the years for his knowledge, as our Australian Studebakers are nothing like the American versions.  Scott often mentioned about the mismatch of parts, we started to email about our "Frankenbaker" restoration.  So welcome to the "Frankenbaker Family".    You certainly have had a much better start.  We are included our Serial Number:  1195889, how great you have the Rego sticker still on car.  We also were lucky to get have the maker plaque:  Canadian Cycle and Motor co, Creek Street, Brisbane.  This was invaluable when researching Studebakers in Australia. We are also lucky to have found original owner family and have a photo of family with car.  We also located the advertisement where Studebaker were on show at Brisbane Royal Show as well as the name of the distributors were car was sold through.    

 

With this research, we were able to finally identify as being a 1923 Australian Colonial Studebaker Tourer, built towards the end of the year.  We totally agree the ID plate stamper, needed some pressure, as you can see in photos our ID plate has had a hard life.   Australian National Library TROVE is also a great way to search old newspapers, just typing in Studebaker 1923 will give y ou an idea and then they are a varierty of search filters, particularly helpful to be able to filter down to Decade and then Year.   If you know a little of history of your car where it was originally from, amazing what you can find.

 

Hopefully you have joined the Historical Studebaker Register of Australia, newsletters are also interesting and informative  and annual member contact register a great way to be able to contact other Australian Studebaker owners.

 

This has been an interesting read and look forward to reading more thoroughly.  Thanks Scott and Gary for mentioning us, has brought back many memories of our early days of "what the heck is this" to now being an amazing beautiful and unique care.....welcome to our special Aussie Studie club.

 

Kind regards, Mark and Lynne Bennett

Hey Mark,

Was the picture of the car in blue just a horrible mistake at a first color choice or some fancy primer or was it the primary car with the "rust bucket" as a second parts car?  If those are two different cars then which did the tag come from? And yes, that tag has led a hard life.

Best,

Scott

[oldcar]

Hello Mark & Lynne

Thank you for making contact, where are you based in Aust. I am in East Doncaster, Victoria. I was interested to see your Canada Cycle Plate. I knew about them in Melbourne but had forgotten about their Studebaker connection. Something else to chase up.

 

Bernie j.

 

[oldcar]

I have just had a visit from my "Star" Motor Trimmer friend Tony MCConnell. He tells me that my reclaimed "Chinese" leather will be OK fro the door trims but thinks that proper new leather will be better for the seat cushions. He also tells me that the "square weave" carpet is still available, (from Germany) so that is what it will be, exactly as original! The seats are now booked in for early in the new year. (2018) I will do the door trims etc, but he can replace the "clear" in the side screens.

The previous owner has finally responded to my e-mails and phone messages to tell me he will have the hood (top) delivered sometime in the next two weeks. Fingers crossed!

 

Bernie j.

[AussieStudie]

16 hours ago, Stude Light said:

Hey Mark,

Was the picture of the car in blue just a horrible mistake at a first color choice or some fancy primer or was it the primary car with the "rust bucket" as a second parts car?  If those are two different cars then which did the tag come from? And yes, that tag has led a hard life.

Best,

Scott

Mr Scott....You jovial jester about our unique Australian Colonials, but we Australians are also a unique breed, descendants of convict stock!   ......

 

 To answer your questions, the photos are one and the same car.  When we first saw in Feb 2011 at local swap meet, it was a "Rusty Relic", we decided against at the time.  Twelve months later in Feb 2012, we were told it was for sale again, after the people who had bought could not agree, one wanted to Hot Rod (thus the electric blue, it was painted), the other wanted to restore original, they did agree with each other to sell. Which is when we bought it, could not wait to get rid of "the blue''.  Luckily the original owner visited us after we bought and we discussed original colour, he noticed they had also taken off and replaced an original door, which we still had with its original pinstriping, so that answered that question and it was returned to its original Burgandy colour. (Yes colour with a "u"...lol).

 

Yes, this is its original ID Serial Plate Number.  Would have been great if they cast into brass plate, like the Canadian Cycle dash plate.  

 

Of course, we expected some cheek from you.

Mark and Lynne

[AussieStudie]

On 8/7/2017 at 11:19 PM, Gary_Ash said:

When Mark Bennett was describing to me his restoration work on his 1923 car, he said he had used a door from another car because the sheet metal was in better shape than the original.  However, he kept the original door handy to illustrate how Australian rules about "local manufacturing content" were implemented.  He said the door skins were probably shipped from Canada in a flat pack and attached to locally-made wooden frames.  As evidence of this, the original door was framed in Bunya pine, a tree that grows only in the Queensland part of Australia.  [You have to watch out when walking in a forest of Bunya pine trees because they can drop a 10-40 lb pine cone on you from 100 ft up!].  Cars shipped from Canada to Australia would have avoided some import taxes because both countries were part of the British Empire at that time. 

Hi Gary, Great to hear you love our car and we enjoyed our quick gathering, next visit will have to be longer.  Sorry, have to set the facts straight on this one.  The timber is Australian Silky Oak (they seed pods won't kill you when the drop...unlike much of our other fauna and wildlife).   Silky Oaks were vastly used in the 1920's to 1940's to make timber furniture, window sills, door frames etc, it was a cheaper timber to work with, similar grain to English Oak, but not as long.  You were correct that Queensland did have Silky Oak trees were readily available in the bush and throughout Queensland.  Some photos of front and back, with gold pinstripe. Similar to Bernie J's.

[AussieStudie]

On 8/16/2017 at 4:57 PM, oldcar said:

Here we go again, off and running.

Having attempted to push the Studebaker about alone and unaided, I decided that it really did need some better tires before It would roll easily.

That was at about 9.30 this morning. It is now four forty five. Lunch time was extended to watch a French horror movie on midday TV. That and the fact that I had to cut one tire off accounts for the time taken. The six wheels can now go off to my friendly sand blaster's in the morning

 

Bj.

Quote

Some photos of our wooden hickory wheels, Day 1 and after stripped and restored, used marine varnish to seal, 23inch rim with 33 inch outside tyre.

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by AussieStudie
Timber wheel photos Bennett Australian Colonial (see edit history)

[AussieStudie]

On 8/22/2017 at 8:54 AM, oldcar said:

Hello  Robert

Thank you for your interest, I now have discovered the wheel spanner that was hidden away in a box of other things in the rear of my car. I now have all the whels off and away being sand blasted and primer coated. I should get them back later this week when I can paint them and fit some new tires. My aim is to get the Studebaker going and drivable before I start doing anything else to it. Even then I shall NOT be stripping off the original paint or pulling it all apart. It distresses me to see nice original cars being destroyed by over enthusiastic people. 

One of the things that is missing is the ignition key. The combined Ignition and lighting switch is the original Briggs & Stratton unit. The Key that I am looking for is a number 39. If anyone has one I would be happy to pay to have a duplicate cut and posted to me. Meanwhile I will also talk with a local locksmith and see if they can cut one for me without destroying the lock.

 

Bernie j.

Hi Bernie,  Amazing for Rusty Relic, the original key was in the ignition.  Sorry not the number you are looking

[AussieStudie]

On 8/27/2017 at 3:00 PM, oldcar said:

Hi Paul

You are not the only one that did not think it would be so easy. Remember that I have only owned the Studebaker since August 5th so I have a very long way to go. I am waiting to get the wheels back and painted so I can fit some new tyres. Only then I will be able to move it and start work on it seriously. First thing will be to see if I can free the motor without tearing it all apart. Before I can do this I have to repair the dog for the crank handle, to do this I will need top remove the timing case before I can do that I have to remove the radiator etc. I do not want to start on that until it is back on it's wheels.  This afternoon's project is to remove some if not all the accumulation of dirt and rubbish from the splash trays on either side of the motor, This for some unknown reason includes dozens of snail shells.

Perhaps they were put there in an attempt to make L'escargot.

 

Bernie j.

We also found a surprise, a long-abandoned mouse/rat nest within the engine block, how they got through the water pump is a miracle, maybe that is why it was abandoned.

[oldcar]

Hello Mark etc.

It was good to talk with you earlier this evening. You may learn a little more about me (and Victoria) if you look at my other thread. 

 

Bernie j.

 

[Gary_Ash]

Mark:  Yes, I'd remembered it was an Australia-only wood, forgot about the silky oak. Maybe it was the bunyah pine cone that fell on my head!  So, does Bernie's car also have silky oak door frames?

[Stude Light]

On first glance I thought it said Silly Oak and I was thinking of a good reply.  Now I see we have Ash asking about Oak .

[Guest]

All this talk about "silly oak" and "ash"  my my one could get sick-a-more of all this plane talk.

 

All members of Platanus are tall, reaching 30–50 m (98–164 ft) in height. All except for P. kerrii are deciduous, and most are found in riparian or other wetland habitats in the wild, though proving drought-tolerant in cultivation. The hybrid London plane has proved particularly tolerant of urban conditions.

They are often known in English as planes or plane trees. Some North American species are called sycamores (especially Platanus occidentalis[2]), although the term sycamore also refers to the fig Ficus sycomorus, the plant originally so named, and to the Sycamore maple Acer pseudoplatanus.[2]

[oldcar]

Yes I agree with Tinindian, 

 

You wood think that it is plain enough to make you want to run away and hide in the forest.

Woodn't it make a person sick-a-more.

 

Oh deer!

 

Bj

Edited October 10, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest]

Maybe we are barking up the wrong tree, should go back to restoring automobiles.

[Stude Light]

16 hours ago, AussieStudie said:

Hi Bernie,  Amazing for Rusty Relic, the original key was in the ignition.  Sorry not the number you are looking

Mark,

That is the key style for the Remy light switch.  Mine is a 422.  I also have a 532 and 578 (spares). I think I have a couple of others along with the cylinder set - if anyone needs them.  Is your key the same for the transmission lock?

 

Bernie,

Does your B&S key match your transmission lock too?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[oldcar]

My key is Number 39. Unfortunately the tranmission lock was smashed a very long time ago. The key I have I bought from eBay recently. Fortunately I can change gears without the lock.

Apparently these early keys are considered to be "collectable".  I paid $9.90 for this one, unfortunately the postage was considerably more.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

[oldcar]

At last a tiny step forward! Having checked and cleaned the points in both the magneto off the engine and the spare, I now know that both  produce a spark healthy enough to jump the "safety " gap at "cranking speed" and both produce a steady stream of sparks from a wire run around all six terminals on the "distributor cap" and then finishing about  1/4 inch from "earth". I have not yet fully cleaned up either but it is nice to know that I will not be wasting my time. In fact as probably should be expected the mag off the engine shows very little evidence of it's 97 years. Neither have the random collection of "timing marks"etc usually found on "old" magnetos. The "spare" shows some signs of "shelf age" but is otherwise in very good and unsullied condition. Both have all their correct knurled terminal nuts etc. It is quite evident that no one wearing a "striped apron" has been working on either of them.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

 

(no one wearing a "striped apron" has been working on them) The traditional working attire for a butcher!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[r1lark]

3 hours ago, oldcar said:

It is quite evident that no one wearing a "striped apron" has been working on either of them.

Bernie j.

 

It's so much nicer to work on an old item that hasn't been "jury rigged" by some clod in the past!

[oldcar]

While on the subject perhaps someone can suggest the best way to conserve and present the red "Composition"  distributor caps found on American Bosch magneto's. 

Next; I find an old/discarded tooth brush excellent for cleaning up all those awkward corners on magnetos. 

Finally in a classic example of "belt and braces" I will take all four magnets out to my friendly Magnet specialist to have them boosted (re-magnetised) 

The inportant thing with these is to make sure that the "polarity" goes back in the same direction. As all he requires is the actual magnet it is a good idea to place a piece of steel strip acosss the ends as a "keeper".

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               7557

Edited October 15, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

While this may seem a little premature I would like to start sourcing the correct cotton covered wires for my car. does anyone know of a list of colour combinations and gauges for the Wagner equipped Light Six electrics? I have found on page 72 of section 3E of the Service Manual for 1920 -24 Models EJ -EM. one diagram Number 54-E for the Junction Box Wiring Diagram EK-EL. It mentions: Battery Indicator "Large Black Wire" : Switch Large Red Wire : Switch Tan Wire with Green line : Switch Small Red Wire and Switch Tan Wire. I have yet to discover the location of this Junction Box but no doubt it will reveal it's self once I start to remove the dash board (Hopefully) I know that this sounds a little suspect but having been brought up working on British cars, Uncle Joseph's system of automotive wiring has some benefits. Even if it is only so you know which wire the smoke is coming from.

 

Bj.

Edited October 18, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

Bernie,

I'll send you the wiring chart I created for my car which is based on disecting 3 original wiring harness. Includes gauges and best guess at colors. The EK EL harness would be different from the EJ. Since you have the early light switch and magneto you will have to modify my list a bit.

Scott