oldcar

Early 1920s Studebaker ?

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Being able to reunite the top with the car is huge....great job on being persistent and rescuing it, otherwise it may have been lost forever.  I have a lot of photos of my original top during disassembly if you need any help. I am fairly certain (not 100%) that the 1920 top had two oval windows.....I'll have to check out the parts manual. The long rectangular one that you have is correct for all the other models and had bevel glass until 1923 when they switched to just flat glass.  I'll bet you're happy to finally bring that home!

Scott

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You are 100% correct Scott! 

Even that it had been badly folded and stored, it is great to have it safely at home. What I had not realised is that there were TWO spare rear axles and rather rusty wire spoke wheels that go with it. Having driven up to Gooram in Helen's VW Jetta sedan there was just room for the top. Looking around "Lance's" place I doubt that they will be going anywhere. It is one of those farm-yards that is the last resting place for any number of cars, trucks and various other sizes and forms of motorised equipment. 

The one big problem is that every time I meet a new person who has some, perhaps limited, knowledge of my Studebakers past life you get a different story. Apparently "Lance" or perhaps Mick as he prefers to be called, was employed to collect the car from Merrigum after the sale.

His story is that the car was stored in a  very low, falling down, shed and that he had to take the top  off the car in order to get it out. That the "farm" at Merrigum was much the same as his with derelict vehicles scattered about. That the Studebaker was probably in better condition than most of the other "vehicles". Not at all as I had been led to believe previously. That it had spent most if not all the time there with no attempt to do anything to get it running seems to be more and more likely. I must learn not to judge others by my own standards.I just wish I could find someone who can tell me about the car's history for the years between 1920 and the late 1960s-early 70s. It is an very big gap.

The rear window creates another mystery? As you describe it, the rear window makes it 1923 or later. Could it be a replacement or "borrowed" from another car? we may never know! The other problem is that to the vast majority of people it is just another old car and not really worth thinking about.

Turning the top over reveals a system of straps between to front and the main "bow" these would have been to support the side screens when not in use.

 

Bj.

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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I verified in the Parts Manual and 1920 Sales brochure that it should have two oval windows with bevel glass

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I'm still trying to determine just what a Gypsy top refers to. Why Gypsy?

Edited by Stude Light (see edit history)

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It was all a very long time ago and there seems to have been no set rule as to what came to Australia, often the dumping ground for experimental cars and one off options.

I tend to think that my Light Six was very possibly a "sample", right hand drive, car sent to an Australian Distributor to "test the market". This would explain such things as the nickel plated radiator surround, headlamp bodies and windscreen frame along with the "export" magneto ignition and wire spoke wheels. 

In the distant past I had not one but two "very strange" 1928/9 Riley 9hp that were more "End of model" cars that incorporated parts from two or three previous years cars, no doubt cobbled together to be sent to the "Colonies".

 

Bernie j.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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I disagree. I think you have a nice original 1920 Light Six that had some repairs and modifications over the years. Someone decided to nickel plate the windshield support and radiator shell, someone probably broke the fan support and put the later model design on, someone wanted a motometer so they drilled a hole in the radiator cap and put one on, someone probably replaced the top at one time and put the later window frame in. When the car was young it had to be maintained so you went to the dealer and they give you the latest parts. The engine had probably been apart 3 or 4 times for service. Not a big stretch of the imagination. These cars were used and not set aside to be some type of time capsule. There is nothing on your car that either didn't come with it or can't be easily explained.

 

My car had a number of modifications too. Someone drilled out the dash and put an oversized Warner speedometer in. Someone put an electronic voltage regulator on. It had bumpers added, a stop lamp and brake switch, a motometer, turn signals and switch, a horn relay, a fuel pump, a fuel pressure regulator, the top was replaced at least once, it had extra brackets on the spark advance linkage, it had rubber on the running boards, it had a switch added to the dash and an extra driving lamp on the bumper, it had a modified starter, the front engine mount was brazed to repair it, it had the wrong coil. I was also missing some parts. This was all done to the car before 1975 as it sat for over 30 years in a garage. So a lot can happen in 90 years.

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Hello Scott

I agree with almost everything you say BUT as far as I have been able to determine my car has not been started or driven since the end of 1941. I have spent hours and hours trying to research it's past history and keep on comming up against a blank wall.

 

More detail tomorrow.

 

Bernie Jacobson

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Hello Scott 

It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. You have NEVER seen my car except in the photographs I have posted here. Some taken by me in the time I have owned the car, some given to me by the son and daughter of a previous owner who had the car from the late 1960s or early 1970s until 2012.  Approximately 40 years without doing anything to or with the car. From what they have been able to tell me, when their father bought the car it had been "on blocks" since 1941/2.  One or two phptographs were given to me by the Auctioneer who ran the Deceased Estate Clearing sale at Merrigum in 2012. I.E. another 30 years.

Kevin Gange bought the car in 2012, he brought it to Melbourne and placed it at the back of the Silver Top Taxi garage where I saw it 5 years later which brings us up to date and a total of 75 years "Off the Road". I am desperately trying to find someone who can tell me about the cars earliest history from 1920 to 1942. It's first 22 years presumably "on the road". I have not invented a "story" about the total of miles recorded on the speedo some 36,000 miles. I have just this week met "Lance" who collected the car from Merrigum and transported it to Melbourne.

Disregarding the above, you seem to have a problem understanding I am not a high pressure Dealer creating a sales pitch!  I am an 81 year old ENTHUSIAST who has been involved with what I know as Vintage Cars (1918 - 1930) and what is known in Australia a PVTs. (Post Vintage Thorough-breds, 1931 - 1940) since I was a teenage school boy. That is for more than 65 years. I am a current member of the VSCC in the UK, I am a Hon Life Member of the(Lagonda) Rapier Register (UK) I am also a Past President and Hon Life Member of the VSCC of Australia. I have only recently joined the Historical Studebaker Register (Australia). In effect you know nothing about me or my car, so who are you to "disagree". If it offends you so, much, I will NOT post anymore information on this part of the Forum! 

All I know about my Studebaker is what I have been able to discover talking to the friends and family of the previous owners.

The person I bought it from had bought it five years earlier at a Deceased Estate Clearing Sale. I have sopken with the daughter of the deceased man who could tell me that her father had bought it as a non-runner either in the late 1960s or early 1970s. She could tell me that her father had pulled it out of a fowl shed in Springvale, an outter suburb of Melbourne.  The "Registration Lable" attached to the windscreen was in efect a receipt for the payment of that years Government Road Users Fee. (Road Tax) A new lable was issued every year. Legally you were not entitled to drive the car on the public roads without a current "label".The last such label that is still on my Studebaker was issued in 1941. At that time car owners took their car to their local Police Station and a Policeman removed the previous years "label" and placed the new one on the cars windscreen. I can remember going as a small boy with my father to pay the "Registration Fee" and have a new lable put onto this cars windscreen.

I may be 81 years old but I am certainly not an idiot and I attempt to be as honest in all my dealings as I possibly can be.

It is a well known FACT that cars sold in Australia were and still do differ, usually to some degree in specification and cosmetic detail, from cars made for the manufacturers "home market".

If you have not visited Australia you can have no conception of the geography of the country or the distances involved.

In addition to traveling extensively in the UK and Europe, I have visited the USA for a period of approximately six weeks and travelled up and down the East Coast by road, where ever possible avoiding the "Interstate Highways".

 

Thank You and Goodbye.

 

Bernie  Jacobson.

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, I just doubted it was anything specially made. 22 years of driving and wear is still alot. Maybe you're right and it was a special marketing car. The problem you have is the same that many of the prewar owners have, the original owners are long gone and so are their stories. Hopefully you are lucky enough to find those answers.

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oldcar,

I have been to Australia, but not that far south (In the early 1990's I drove from Sydney to Cairns). 

I am working on a century old Studebaker that had been sitting for 4 decades and I am awaiting pictures and information from the son of the guy who owned it in the 1950's to 1970's (2,000 miles away in Arizona)   I'm lucky, as I don't need to drive there to pick up any parts.

I was doing a little research on a "Gypsy" top.  I found some triangular "gypsy" front side curtains that attach to the windshield and open with the door (1920's model T among others), but the rear triangular shaped extensions of the back that wrap up the sides were called "gypsy wings" on a model T.  I don't know why they got the "gypsy" name.

Your car is looking good.

Tim

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Without putting the top back on the car I cannot be sure but I "believe" that I have a full set of side screens, they all need new Transparent Material (Perspex) When I have some spare time with nothing to do, I will lay them all out and photograph them. Just don't hold your breath.

Generally speaking in Australia as in the UK, Gipsy's are not held in particularly high regard.

 

Bj. 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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I could be mistaken, but I believe a Gypsy top is one that has the covering extended from the back window panel around the side to the sloping part of the rear bow.

 

Here is a 1913 sa-25 that lacks this feature, and another car (possibly a 1919 light six?) that has it.

 

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studebaker-light-six-touring-229200684-2

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)

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And Gypsy Curtains. Very effective in reducing buffeting under way. So much so , that I fly them most of the time. They fill and bow out as speed increases. 1924 Cadillac.   - Carl 

 

image.jpeg

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How about leaving the Gypsy's to get on with their  cyrstal ball gazing and palm reading. I am much more interested in the twin spare wheels. The same Beige car appears to have a second windscreen for the rear seat passenger? #312. 

Was this option available for cars fitted with wire spoke wheels and does anyone have one they would like to sell? I am also looking for a pair of the clamp arrangement that supports the folded top. Can any of the owners of the apparent hundreds of Light Six "parts cars" assist?

 

Bernie j.

 

 

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I'm sorry, but I don't know. I can positively identify the 1913 sa-25, as well as several details on that car, because I own one. It is not my car in the picture.

 

The beige car was identified by either the site I found it on, or possibly the filename, as a 1919 Light six.

 

I have not commented much because I know so little about the Light Six. I have sure enjoyed reading this thread, and I like what you are doing.

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)

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Hello Bloo and welcome,

Two month's ago I did not even know what a Light Six was. It was not until after I had bought it that learnt what a Light Six was and discovered the traps for young players in the early EJ cars.

 

Bj

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Meanwhile all has not been totally stagnant on the cylinder head front. I now have received the "repair sleeve" for the damaged spark plug thread. All I am waiting for now is a new 24 -1.5mm tap and I can do the necessary thread replacement. The repair "sleeve" is 24mm on the outside and accepts an 18mm sparkplug in the i/d. It comes with a purpose made punch. after screwing the "sleeve" into the newly thresded oversize hole in the cylinder head the punch fits snugly over the four projecting pins. These are driven down through the thread locking the "sleeve" into place.  Hopefully this will be a permanent cure and will take the motor one step closer to running.

Every morning I will be out checking the mail box.

Bernie j.

DSCN5714.thumb.jpg.9b8a9029dbac887828aa202963ab2f7c.jpgDSCN5715.thumb.jpg.5a6e4a59bf06bb90994a4dcb7c1b9292.jpgDSCN5716.thumb.jpg.1775af778647c1a13ec607c17d35f472.jpg waiting for the all important tap.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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How's the length of that threaded insert? If it's longer than the head is thick it may need to be cut down.

 

Hello Mike.

You are quite correct it is longer than necessary and will require  shortening, The attached photograph shows the old failed insert next to the new. Not only is the new one longer but also larger in outside diameter. 24mm against the other's 21mm. Hopefully the extra will make the difference. The only logical alternative at this point is a NEW cylinder head which will add a whole lot more dollars to the cost. I am a big fan of the old policy of one step at a time, no matter how small that step may seem.  Having said all that, I would sooner it be too long rather than too short.

There is something about "as the Actress said to the Bishop" but we do not need to go there.

 

Bj.

 

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Bj.

 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Oops! we nearly slipped out the bottom!

 

Now that the Australian customs have carefully inspected it and found no possible threat to life or limb, the 24mm Tap has arrived and we can start the next step. The tap will "start" in the existing hole so I probably would be better off NOT drilling the hole out any further. All I need to do is to extract the Champagne cork out of the hole again. I had put it there to keep out any collections of homeless insects that may have liked to call it home. I will wait until I have discussed this with my "Technical Advisor" (son Steve) before rushing into tapping out the hole.

I may need him to "part off" the bottom excess from the "sleeve". Alternatively I can simply cut it off using my angle grinder with a ultra thin 'cut-off blade'.  

For "sticky beaks" trying to read my correspondence, The top document is the Historical Studebaker Register of Australia's list of Members, the second one with the official (Officious) looking heading is about a "speeding fine' telling me that it had just cost me Aust $318.oo for exceeding the 100 kph limit by more that 5 Kph but less than 15Kph. Expletive deleted!. This while driving on an almost deserted country road with virtually no other traffic, except an un-marked Police car travelling, out of sight, in the opposite direction!  Ain't Radar wonderful???

 

My excuse was that modern VW sedans have an electronic speedo and the calibrations narrow (come closer together) at 100kph making it difficlut to read the exact speed. That and that I would sooner be watching the road conditions than having my attention glued to the speedo and as a result, either run off the road or crash into another car!

 

Intending visitors to Australia please note.  It is a well known fact that we "Live in a Granny State*".

 

Bernie j.

 

* Granny State:- In that our governing politicians have the mentality of an; Extremely aged and feeble minded yet still dictatorial, Grand Mother!

 

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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I have to be up bright and early tomorrow morning, I have a 9.00am appointment at the local Charity Shop's warehouse to look at their range of Antique "Mahogany" timber Bed-heads and Tables. Now all you clever people why would I want such a thing? I hope to have some photographs to show you later tomorrow.

 

Bernie j.

 

746

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Now for something different, from time to time I mention P.G.Wodehouse and the many books he had written during his lifetime. While essentially "English" he actually spent quite an amount of time living in America and many of his books referred to life in the USA.

I have one bookcase devoted to his books. I decided  a little while ago to start re-reading them. Not following any particular order but jut picking one off the shelf for my bedside reading. I have just finished "The Adventures of Sally" written in 1922 it covers a section of her life when she is mainly living in New York and gives us quite a good insite to life there in the early 1920s. 
The next book again chosen at random is "the Inimitable Jeeves this one was first printed in 1923. My copy is a "Fifth Printing" which probably makes it around 1924/5. Most of my copies are hard cover printed by "Herbert Jenkins" making them mainly Pre WW2 and mostly from the 1920s.

As I am sure I have said many times already, "You do not have to be mad but it helps" Apart from anything else they do tell us something of the lives of the people who drove our cars when new. 

The observant among us will have noted that I do have several paperbacks on the bottom shelf.

I am always interested in hearing from anyone with early (1920s) Herbert Jenkins copies of PGW's books in good condition. There are still almost as many of his stories that I do not have. I can always buy taller bookshelves.

 

Yes! I have also posted the same thing on my Lagonda Rapier thread.

 

Bernie j.DSCN5719.thumb.jpg.b9110a1abe3eabd68998b2d65b733ea0.jpgDSCN5720.thumb.jpg.fc65c4c6dcec5ac6a04f8e316d08bdae.jpg

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Oldcar, I listen to books while working on other things. I just don't have the time read them anymore. I searched for Wodehouse on Librivox and found many. If you are not familiar with Librivox, they use human readers to create audiobooks from books that are now in the public domain. I have listened to many and right now I have most recently completed Oliver Twist and am now on to Bleak House. I intend to listen to A Christmas Carol around Christmas. I love Sinclair Lewis because his works often include something about early autos, especially, Free Air and Main Street. 

 

 

 It is a great way to be able to listen to great works while completing other work.

 

https://librivox.org/author/420?primary_key=420&search_category=author&search_page=1&search_form=get_results

 

Image result for sinclair lewis free air

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Hello Keninman

I must confess that I have not encountered any of Sinclair Lewis. I have been reading and collecting PG Wodehouse books for a very long time, longer than I care to think about. I find that I can re-read his books a number of times and get something new from the experience every time. Most people tend to think only in terms of his Bertie Wooster stories which have been the subject of several TV series. But the Wooster & Jeeves adventures or perhaps more correctly "Mis-adventures" are but a tiny part of his out-put. Generally I like to read when I first go to bed, before turning out the light for perhaps up to an hour.  It helps to take my mind off the day's activities. Normally I will read almost anything that has printed pages. I have been collecting and reading PGW for 60 years or more. It is only recently that I have decided to re-read my way through my collection. Anyone who has made a study of his work will understand and appreciate how his stories tie in with the type of car that I am interested in. Despite the amonut of time he spent in the USA and how many of his books are based on life in America during the 1920's and 30's, it seems that he is not widely read by Americans. Having re-read that and having meet quite a number of Americans I can see that some of his (PGW's) humour could be lost on them.

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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