Towing with an Enclave - Anybody done it

[MrEarl]

Considering the possible purchase of an Enclave in the future with plans to tow a 3,500 lb trailer. Wondering if the engine and drive train will be up to it over time and the over all handling capabilities adequate. Anybody done it? 

[DAVES89]

My 2010 Enclave does not have the towing package but I still put a hitch on it knowing that without the towing package I can still tow 2000 lbs. If the vehicle has a towing package you can tow more [I believe 4500 lbs]. You cannot do anything to an Enclave to change a non tow package to a tow package without drive train upgrades that are cost prohibitive.

 This info was taken from the Buick Enclave forum and owners manual.

 A great vehicle for towing is the Buick Roadmaster 1992-1996. I had three different ones [2-1992, 1-1993] and they towed my boat great. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Thriller]

I wouldn't. 

 

I've  towed a couple times with our 6 cylinder Rainier. It is truck-based vehicle so is stronger from the frame perspective. That said just towing my aluminum boat sucked the fuel economy down to where it didn't make sense to use that instead of the truck. I wouldn't consider pulling the tent trailer (2800 lbs give or take with a maximum loaded weight of 3500). 

 

I don't know what they are rated for but it always scares me seeing vehicle used for towing that aren't really designed for it. 

 

I haven't looked into into it but have wondered if possible (based on contract) and feasible to rent a truck every now and again when necessary to tow. 

 

[SpecialEducation]

Depends on what you are towing, because areo is a big factor. 

My Vue has a 2.2 4 cylinder, and the drive from the keys was pretty nice, even on the two Lane blacktop of Georgia and Alabama. 

 

 However, the aerodynamic brick of my 3500 pound camper is a bit much for it unless we have a good tailwind. 

 

Based on my experience with this rig, I'd think an Enclave would do just fine. Yeah, the mileage may not be any better than a truck,  but if you have seven passengers, they'll be much more comfortable. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by SpecialEducation (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

KEY things!  Check the factory Tow Rating for the vehicle.  The "Tow Package" is MORE than just coolers and such, but also includes some electrical items that require a different fuse block and wiring (which is expensive to retrofit, but has been done).  To be sure, you don't have to have that package, just adding a hitch is the main thing, BUT it's the other stuff in the package (stated in the brochure or not) that makes it all fit together.  As I recall, the electrical items are close to $60000 for the parts, uninstalled.  You can check the SPID label for the applicable option code.

 

In the weight of the trailer, be sure to factor in enough additional weight to allow for things you'll also be carrying along with you, whether in the trailer or in the tow vehicle, which is where "Combined Gross Vehicle Weight" comes in.

 

NTX5467

 

 

[RivNut]

What difference does it make if the vehicle is of a body on frame configuration or a uni-body construction?

[riv2x4]

Couldn't agree more with the towing capacity issue.  Not fun to have the trailer get a case of the wiggles behind you.  Is the 3500# loaded or a factory weight? Add for all the goodies inside,  GVWR is also critical, everything in tow vehicle plus occupants and tongue weight. 

[39BuickEight]

The Enclave should be fine with 3500 behind it.  Whether a box trailer or flat will determine how well.  Plenty of power, just make sure you have a transmission cooler and trailer brakes.  

 

I pull our 14 ft tent trailer all over creation with a minivan.  6 passengers, loaded coolers, firewood, etc. probably exceeding the GCVW.   mileage goes from 25 to 16, but it goes like a charm.

 

Some people think I'm crazy, but the manufacturer ratings are grossly undervalued.  It's more about taking proper precaution in regards to brakes, loading properly, and driving style.  Drive smart.

Edited August 5, 2017 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

29 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Some people think I'm crazy, but the manufacturer ratings are grossly undervalued.  It's more about taking proper precaution in regards to brakes, loading properly, and driving style.  Drive smart.

 

Operative words, "Drive smart"

 

I still like my Silverado crew cab truck for towing.

[SpecialEducation]

The max weight of my camper is 3500 pounds, which is the max capacity of my Vue (which is smaller than an Enclave).

I bought this Vue new in 2004, and have been pulling trailers since day 1 as I was running a mowing business at the time.  I'm at 308k today.  I did just break a rear sway bar link yesterday, but I doubt that has anything to do with trailering.  I'm still on my original brake shoes back there. 

 

Stability is more about how the trailer is loaded than anything else. I usually run with a sway-bar, but it tows fine without it. I've also got electric brakes on the camper, so stopping is never a problem. 

[NTX5467]

In prior times, the issue of "frame" or "unibody" might have been more operative as cars came both ways.  Now, unless it is a verified "light truck chassis" vehicle, the vehicles are "unibody", even the cross-over SUVs.  Plus, due to collision standards/ratings, ALL of the vehicles have stronger body components . . . or at least better engineered.  

 

One thing that, on the surface, seemed a little interesting was that it was best to tow with a 4WD pickup than a 2WD pickup.  Then, when considering how the power was distributed to the ground, it made sense to spread it out more to decrease the intensity of the load at each wheel . . . as to moving the total mass of vehicle and trailer.  AWD vehicles would be the same, but many now have "power management systems" which alter the f/r power distribution by "needs" rather than just with a particular torque split.

 

On the surface, the horsepower figures of modern engines might lead to automatic acceptance of them as good tow engines, but this CAN be misleading.  Modern engines typically have a much broader torque/horsepower curve, yet the peak figures usually happen at higher rpms than in the past, especially the "torque" reading.  So you have to know what the power curve looks like to make a more informed judgment.  In any event, while the horsepower figures seem ample, the torque figures might not be as good, even with the broader torque curve.  This makes the transmission issues much more important, as most of the top 2+ gears are OD gears, as most 6+ gear automatics have a low gear ratio of about 4.5, rather than the old 3-speed automatic ratio of 2.48-2.75.  This much lower gear gives the somewhat false idea of "plenty of power".  Yet when you're at a particular speed range where it's too fast for enough downshifts, not enough gear for what you'd desire to make happen.  And THAT's where you realize how much less torque your engine might have than what you really need.  Where you miss the old "magic of cubic inches".  Sometimes you have enough tolerance of other drivers, sometimes you don't and hopefully realize the error of judgment with enough time to adjust.  So, knowing the limitations of the particular tow vehicle and "driving within one's means" is highly important!

 

It should also be mentioned that many states have separate speed limits for tow vehicles and trailers, just as they do for 18-wheelers.  This can mean that you're going to be a traffic disruption for traffic behind you, no matter what, OR how powerful the tow vehicle might be.

 

Factory tow ratings are, of nature, will always be somewhat conservative compared to what the vehicle might ultimately be capable of.  The OEMs have to warranty any failures (unless proven to be the result of owner modifications "not approved" by the OEM, including engine management system "enhancements").  But it must be remembered that as people typically use modifications to increase engine power and automatic trans performance, FEW things are typically done to improve BRAKING performance!

 

And . . . each vehicle is different.

 

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

And example . . . when we had the TrailBlazer/Rainier vehicles with the high-tech inline 6-cylinder, the engine horsepower was about 275, and combined with the THM700 trans, was a decently-good driving vehicle.  Except . . . when the engine's torque wasn't enough to jump into that chasm of gear ratio spread between 3.06 and 1.74, 1st to 2nd.  There were a few I-35E on-ramps in Dallas that were still "from the '50s" in length.  On a sweeping rh curve, too!  If you learned to hit that ramp at a slower speed than about 40mph, the trans would downshift to low and the vehicle would jump into the traffic gap.  Starting at 45mph, which seemed more appropriate to other drivers, it only went to 2nd and a seemingly-long time to get enough engine rpm and back into the power band of the motor.  Another gear in that "gap" would have been great!

 

As freeway designs are updated, these older short ramps are being replaced by ramps that are less traumatic and allow for a smooth speed increase and merge.  But every so often, especially in "strange" cities one isn't used to, some of these old ramps can still be there!  And it can vary from state to state.  Just depends upon when the basic freeway  was designed and built  . . . all of which isn't listed on any map or GPS!  "Overkill" in the powertrain might cost a few mpg of so, but that cost can be "priceless" when such unusual conditions are encountered!

 

In many respects, modern vehicles have "plenty of electronic-controlled gears" and "no optional final drive gear ratios".  Fewer engine options, too. That can make it seem somewhat "cut and dried", as long as the factory tow rating is abided by.  Still, knowing the power curve and the trans gear ratios can help you determine how well things can work.  Factory tow packages and appropriate maintenance help things work generally better and for longer periods.

 

Everybody have fun!

 

NTX5467

[dmfconsult]

I think this class of vehicles are typically rated fir 5000 lbs. I would think you'd be fine with a tioe package and driving carefully 

[riv2x4]

I believe the towing limit on an Enclave with a tow package is 4500# without 2k.   Does the trailer have brakes? 

[JohnD1956]

In my opinion the OP would be dissatisfied towing with an Enclave and should go back to a modified plan "A".  By that I mean leave Buttercup alone. And modify another of the 54 Roadmasters he has in stock for towing around the country. Implant a 63 engine and Dynaflow and a 56 rear axle. Follow up with KAD's AC installation .  Then hit the road for the experience he wants.

Again, just my opinion. 

[MrEarl]

I went to to the Enclave forum and while some owners report good experience towing boats and small trailer, it appears the general consensus there is the enclave  wasn't designed as a tow vehicle and while it "can" tow the 4,500 lbs. it's a strain on the engine/transmission and does not handle well.

I also got a pm from a previous Enclave owner who didn't wish to "sound like some sour fart" but I will add it here as it somewhat answers the  "who's done it" part of my question. 

 

Stick with those Silverados, even a Tahoe. I had an Enclave and that 220 cubic engine wasn't fit to haul itself around. I hated driving it and wished it had a 5.3 every time I got in.

I could run down the NYS Thruway at 75 and get 20 MPG just like my Silverado, but if I took the secondary road home, over the rolling hills, it was a pig. I can't imagine hauling a trailer with it.

All of these advertised HP ratings are for high RPM engines with low torque. They start with 6 speed transmissions and add more gears every year. I was never so happy to see a car go as I was when I turner in the Enclave. You can trace it back to a Fiat chassis, you know.

 

Rita and I talked and with all things considered will probably be looking into using a Tahoe. While I have a crew cab 03 Silverado that would certainly handle the job, it is starting to get a few miles on it plus  my hound dog doesn't find the back seat very comfortable for stretching out in. 

 

So thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice! ?

[Bill Stoneberg]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:20 PM, Thriller said:

I haven't looked into into it but have wondered if possible (based on contract) and feasible to rent a truck every now and again when necessary to tow. 

 

That is what I do and it makes it so much easier.  But if I had a travel trailer or a boat I was towing all the time it would be cost prohibited. 

[NC-car-guy]

My mom uses her enclave to tow the boat.  It's about a 3k lb package.   Factory tow package.  She's been doing it two years now and has 76k miles on the buick,  no issues. 

[NC-car-guy]

12 minutes ago, wndsofchng06 said:

My mom uses her enclave to tow the boat.  It's about a 3k lb package.   Factory tow package.  She's been doing it two years now and has 76k miles on the buick,  no issues. 

I still think my truck rides better ?

[39BuickEight]

All these vehicles have the power, as mentioned, the gearing is the issue in terms of satisfaction.  Also, younger folks didn't live when trucks had 150hp, so they often think a vehicle should perform exactly the same whether towing or not.

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

Rita and I talked and with all things considered will probably be looking into using a Tahoe. While I have a crew cab 03 Silverado that would certainly handle the job, it is starting to get a few miles on it plus  my hound dog doesn't find the back seat very comfortable for stretching out in. 

 

So thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice! ?

 

What is a lot of miles to tow?  My Silverado has 295,000 miles and it is my every day driver and tow vehicle to anywhere.

[MrEarl]

 

 

11 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

What is a lot of miles to tow?  My Silverado has 295,000 miles and it is my every day driver and tow vehicle to anywhere.

 

I would have jumped in my '96 Silverado with 275,000 and taken off to anywhere on the continent,  but the '03, I would hesitate. Plus Rita is chomping at the bit for a new vehicle and one that Elvis (the hound dog)  is comfy in so hey, who am I to argue. 

[old-tank]

1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

Stick with those Silverados, even a Tahoe. I had an Enclave and that 220 cubic engine wasn't fit to haul itself around. I hated driving it and wished it had a 5.3 every time I got in.

I could run down the NYS Thruway at 75 and get 20 MPG just like my Silverado, but if I took the secondary road home, over the rolling hills, it was a pig. I can't imagine hauling a trailer with it.

All of these advertised HP ratings are for high RPM engines with low torque. They start with 6 speed transmissions and add more gears every year. I was never so happy to see a car go as I was when I turner in the Enclave. You can trace it back to a Fiat chassis, you know.

That was exactly my assessment on a day long test drive of a used one (pig).  Use your Silverado and leave the dog at home ---  a sick or injured pet far from home is not a good time.

[MrEarl]

6 minutes ago, old-tank said:

.  Use your Silverado and leave the dog at home ---  a sick or injured pet far from home is not a good time.

 

Elvis asked me to reply to you with this. Hey, I'm just the messenger....

[60FlatTop]

My Wife has the old 4WD Tahoe and I am shopping for a 2WD Tahoe or Escalade to replace my rusting '05 Silverado. That folded over tin bodied 6 cylinder stuff wouldn't appeal to me for much of any use other that basic transportation.

 

The inflated high RPM horsepower numbers are lightly veiled. And they just get worse. Good final decision.

 

My sentiments on trailering are about the same as camping. In 2011 I bought my '86 convertible, not running, in Kenosha, WI. I am near Buffalo, New York. it cost $600 to have it delivered and that included the $50 tip I gave the friendly driver. The check cleared on Thursday and the owner OK'ed pick up. It was in my garage at 10 AM Saturday morning. In '08 I had a Jaguar sedan shipped from Federal Way, WA for $1600.

 

My Dad always encouraged me to have others do the work and take the risks. I had coffee with a friend this morning. He's been a worker, but now his back, knees, hips, and attitude are bad. I guess my Dad's advice worked out.

 

I wish I had a picture of my Wife's Dachshund, Louie, from that view. People used to yell compliments from their car window when she was out walking him. He just bounced alone with that dog smile they get.

Bernie

[SpecialEducation]

2 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

All these vehicles have the power, as mentioned, the gearing is the issue in terms of satisfaction.  Also, younger folks didn't live when trucks had 150hp, so they often think a vehicle should perform exactly the same whether towing or not.

 

True. I'd rather tow my camper with my Vue than with my '83 Scottsdale (305/Q-jet).  I know, because I've done both. 

[riv2x4]

Bernie, I replaced my 05 Escalade ESV with a 14 when I bought my boat 3 years ago.  Would have bought a Suburban but not enough towing capacity, needed the 6..2.  The 14 tows the boat better than the 05 did with my pop up camper.  The ESV come in handy too when taking kids to college.  Had 2 wd Suburbans and prefer them to the 4wd.  Posi and traction control are all you need with a 5500# truck. Tried doing donuts in a snow covered parking lot and no go.

 

How difficult has it been finding 2wd Tahoe's and Escalades in your area, Chevy's a bit here near Chicago, haven't seen many if any at all Escalade 2wd's here.

[Larry Schramm]

2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 Plus Rita is chomping at the bit for a new vehicle and one that Elvis (the hound dog)  is comfy in so hey, who am I to argue. 

 

That is a different issue.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 Plus Rita is chomping at the bit for a new vehicle and one that Elvis (the hound dog)  is comfy in so hey, who am I to argue. 

 

If Lady Rita desires a new vehicle that Elvis can be comfortable in, then let her get an Envision or Encore, put the 2nd seat down, some appropriate quilts to lay on, and get some restraint harnesses for Elvis (to protect him from bouncing around in the event of an evasive maneuver or worse).  Ride is decent for a newer vehicle, fuel economy is good, and it's quieter than expected.  Only downsides are the need for the electronic warning devices, that were a part of the Encore Essence that I spent three weeks with.  Some attractive lease agreements, too!

 

If you like your Silverado, you can keep it (and insurance, too!).

 

As for newer vehicle performance, there's a reason the transmissions all now have 6+ gears in them.  To cover the weak lower rpm torque of modern "high-feature" motors.  The fast rev-up in Low gear (4.50 ratio!) gives the false perception of "power", but put it in "M" and select 2nd gear and see how much things (with the formerly-normal low gear ratio of 2.48, much less manually selecting "3" and its PowerGlide-approximate low gear!) change.  There is a fuel economy aspect to this too, but when towing, it'll probably be close to 12mpg of less regardless of engine horsepower.

 

In the later 1980s, some friends in another car club were towing an enclosed trailer to Mopar Nationals each year.  Mostly B or E-body cars (Super Bee or Challenger) for the car show.  The first year, they used a F-150 with the 5.4L HO V-8.  In TN, it was 85mph at the bottom of the hills and 35mph at the top (WOT).  When they got back, it was traded for a F-250 460 V-8 extended cab.  Next year, greatly improved in the TN hills, better fuel economy.  Horsepower might get you to higher speeds, but it's torque that pulls you up the hills.

 

People still like an "authoritative launch" from a red light (which the lower low gears make happen), but when in the upper gears and speed ranges, that advantage diminishes.  The other observed "thing" is that smaller engines in heavier vehicles, from a stop, do much better with a part-throttle start than a WOT start.  Not unlike in the past times when you had to feather the throttle to keep from spinning those 5.5" wide treaded tires with that SPTM400 automatic.

 

As heavy as the full-size SUVs and pickups have gotten, they need the extra power of the V-8s and getting a WOT downshift from "2" to "1" can result in some nice "tire sounds" . . . IF you do it right.  But a more-base 1/2 ton with a 5.3L V-8 (stay out of the 4-drs and such!) can still perform well and get better-than-expected fuel economy.  

 

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

Elvis asked me to reply to you with this. Hey, I'm just the messenger....

 

 

Enjoy!

 

NTX5467

[SpecialEducation]

Don't get hung up on RPM. I drive all day long down the highway at 3500+ RPM. Big deal, the engine was designed for it.  Turning it slower and using more throttle is actually worse, from a mileage standpoint and internal heat damage. 

 

Spinning a SBC at that speed is a different story, but that's not what what we are taking about.  Pushrod V8 architecture is completely different than the "high feature" engines, so applying old school generalities to modern powerplants is not really fair. 

 

I saved money in fuel and insurance when I sold my '03 Sierra and bought the Vue - which I have abused sorely over the last 13 years.   Obviously, your mileage may vary...

[RivNut]

I think I have close to what is the best of both worlds.  Style, comfort, and a work horse.  My 1994 Buick Roadmaster station wagon is extremely comfortable, is rated 17/25 mpg, and is powered by an iron head LT1 (same as the Corvette except for the Vette's aluminum heads).  With the V92 tow package and the G80 positrac rear end, it's rated to tow 5,000 lbs.  The tow package includes a mechanical fan, oil cooler, dual transmission coolers, and a modified valve body in the transmission.  Lots of go, lots of grunt.

[NTX5467]

The "old rule of thumb" used to be to gear the vehicle for the cruising speed or posted speed limits you'd most likely be driving in, at the rated peak torque rpm.  That was when all we had was three speed and four speed transmissions that didn't have "OD" as the "top gear".  Almost every GM V-8 1/2 pickup, or even some heavier-duty models, run 1700rpm in OD at 70mph.  The LS-family 4.3L V-6 I normally drive is even lower than that, on the highway.  The last-gen LeSabres needed 82mph to get to 2000rpm in OD.  It seems that the federal mpg and emissions need the lower rpms to decrease the "grams/mile" emissions, then rely upon the automatic trans to keep towing performance up to snuff with "Tow/Haul" and manually shifting with the flick of a switch.  Different games, now.

 

Intake manifolding is now "dry" as fuel is injected either in the last section of the runner (aimed at the head of the intake valve) or directly into the combustion chamber.  This improved air distribution, runner sizing and length, and broadened the torque curve a good bit.  Pretty much the desired "flat as a board" torque curve from 2000-5000rpm.  With a small "blip" somewhere to give the max rated figure.  Combined with phenomenally better intake runner size/design, plus individual ports in the head, rather than siamesed (same on the exhaust side) and intake and exhaust air flow is much better optimized than anything we had in the past.  But unless some sort of forced induction is used, torque is not quite what it used to be with the larger engines.  VVT is helping, plus dual-channel intakes, are helping.  Horsepower is easier to design for, torque is more problematic to maximize.

 

And the more modern chassis equipment seem to take less power to push down the highway, which also helps.  Still, there are some "laws of nature" that some ways around haven't been found, just yet.

 

Even so, there are some prior GM tow vehicles (cars and pickups) that many loved when they had them, when they were newer, but they eventually were traded for something newer and better, that didn't seem to perform quite as well as the vehicle they replaced.  Spec-wise, they might seem similar on paper, but on the road, that's where the differences became apparent.

 

NTX5467

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

I think I have close to what is the best of both worlds.  Style, comfort, and a work horse.  My 1994 Buick Roadmaster station wagon is extremely comfortable, is rated 17/25 mpg, and is powered by an iron head LT1 (same as the Corvette except for the Vette's aluminum heads).  With the V92 tow package and the G80 positrac rear end, it's rated to tow 5,000 lbs.  The tow package includes a mechanical fan, oil cooler, dual transmission coolers, and a modified valve body in the transmission.  Lots of go, lots of grunt.

Oh yeah, you can also fold down all but the front seats and lay a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood flat on the floor.  Who amongst you can make that claim with you Tahoe or Silverado. ?

[60FlatTop]

5 hours ago, riv2x4 said:

How difficult has it been finding 2wd Tahoe's and Escalades in your area

 

I don't mind searching nationwide. I have never bought a car farther away than Seattle, Washington.

Mileage, condition, and color are my concerns. Whatever I buy, I plan to keep for a long time or unload it quick if I make a mistake.

My RWD conventional cab Silverado just turned 160,000 miles. It is fine mechanically but rust is becoming an issue. AND everyone says mine is better than most. I drive a lot less than in the previous 12 years so I'm looking for one around 50,000 miles and $20,000. I have found interesting ones on either side of that. You have to look for RWD in the search.

Chicago is rust belt, not a good shopping location.

 

I look closest at Virginia and the DC area. The weather is gentle to the cars and the area is affluent enough for owners to maintain their cars. Rust belt and impoverished or bankrupt areas are off my list, as well.

 

I am looking for the truck a guy 50 to 60 years old bought and babied the way a lot of Corvettes get saved for the next owner. I have told salesmen that I want a car owned by the old guy who pulled to the side of the road and got out to fart. There understand that pretty good. Actually, I'd like my truck if it wasn't for the rust.  My Wife and I were talking about it and I told her that ever since I was a kid I remember old men with amateurish patch jobs on their old trucks, trying to keep then together. If that is getting old it ain't gonna be me.

 

After owning two Roadmasters, both '94's, and being the BCA tech advisor for them, I still own a '94 Impala SS. I used to think the 1967-68 Chevies were close to the epitome of practical automotive design. That was during the smogged out 1980's. The mid '90's B-body cars outdid them. Separate body and frame, longitudinal V8 engines, and rear wheel drive are a superior design, but materials and technology of even those cars suffer age related issues. You can go a half million miles, but you can't take decades to do it. I am looking at '07's to '09's, but I should be looking at '13's and 14's, which may be the landing spot; or another new Silverado RWD.

 

That's what happened with my lawn mower. I spent two years searching for a used replacement for my 15 yo Deere, frustrating. Then my Wife told me to just go buy the new one. She hates to see me in such angst.

Bernie

[BUICK RACER]

Use a real truck, not a wannabe, I've seen too many accidents with wannabe tow vehicles.

[51dyno]

Bite the bullet and buy her a enclave and a pre 2000 low milege Suburban or Tahoe for towing . Last month GM ran 15 % off on a enclave and it appears to still be going on in my area . but sales vary by zip code .Mine listed at 50 and the fully loaded was 53. all I am missing is the rear entertainment  package . It has premium sound and Nav.. Reason I say older Suburban or Tahoe is they had the seats that were flat and not like todays . I had a 100LB Lab and getting the way new seats fold was hard .She is gone now so I bought a new suburban . Haven't towed jet but I think the old 350s were better with their tranny than the new many gear ones.  If you find a larger engine better yet . 2018 Enclave will have changes and some restyling .

Edited August 7, 2017 by 51dyno (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

Oh yeah, you can also fold down all but the front seats and lay a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood flat on the floor.  Who amongst you can make that claim with you Tahoe or Silverado. ?

 

No problem.

[Elpad]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:49 PM, MrEarl said:

Considering the possible purchase of an Enclave in the future with plans to tow a 3,500 lb trailer. Wondering if the engine and drive train will be up to it over time and the over all handling capabilities adequate. Anybody done it? 

 

[Brad Conley]

On 8/6/2017 at 11:05 AM, MrEarl said:

 

Elvis asked me to reply to you with this. Hey, I'm just the messenger....

 

WOW!!  Would you look at that!  Elvis is from Ohio!!  How can I tell, you ask?  Why, he has a little "O" under his tail!!