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KC,KCL Frame measurements

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I'm trying to put the sheetmetal, from the cowl forward, back on my '35 KCL. I need to talk to someone who has an original pick-up or sedan delivery. I believe all HC,HCL,KC and KCLs are the same basic trucks for '33,'34 and '35. I need to know things like the thickness of the shims under the cowl and the position of the cowl front face with respect to the rivet heads on the frame. I'm also not sure if the shims were wood or very hard rubber. I had a shim still in place at one corner and it's hard wood. Is it the remains of a true original? My truck was in poor shape when I got it and I have no original reference truck nearby. My e-mail address is bobpat1@sympatico.ca Thanks Bob confused.gif" border="0

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Bob--Lost track of you for awhile (lost e-mail address for you, etc.). I'll check the measurements for you on my 35 KCL panel and post a follow up. My panel has the wood stringers under the body much like the car bodies, with rectangular pads at the body attachment points (where the body bolts go through into the frame). The pads on mine are made of a canvas reinforced rubber and were probably 1/4--3/8" thick originally. Although a club judging panel would be the best source, I would think that the thickness/number of pads required would be more a matter of proper body and splash apron alignment/squareness as opposed to a 'factory correct' number or thickness. SMB

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Measurement on my KCL, from face of the firewall to the centerline of the rivit just ahead of the firewall is 6 5/16". Hope that helps. SMB

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Thanks Scott. My cowl was almost at the same position and I've corrected it to your 6 5/16". I know this is drawing out a point but----I have 4 large bolts holding the cowl onto the frame. One at each 'corner'. Do you? The 2 front ones go through 2 large 'L'brackets. With your cowl in place and the bolts tight,what is the space left between the cowl and the frame? And is the cowl 'level'? Is the space the same at the front of the cowl as at the rear? I would assume it is or else the hood gap would not be straight.Thanks Bob smile.gif" border="0

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Thanks again Scott. I'm having a bugger of a time trying to line everything up. You are right,of course,NASA didn't build it. But I've heard that setting up the rad shell,rad,front fenders,hood parts and front fenders on one of these old beasts is the most fun you'll ever have! With this being a 'cowl and chassis' special job,I've had to position the cowl as well,both back and forth and up and down.And I have to make it all accept the special wooden sedan delivery body which I've already completed. Fun and games. Thanks Bob smile.gif" border="0

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Bob--I'm working on the frame now so my bolts aren't tight (something my wife has been telling me for a long time) so I can't give you those exact dimensions. It pulls down fairly close, i.e., leaving about enough room for the spacers described in my prior message. Again, I think it has more to do with sheetmetal/door alignment than with what the actual dimension is. These things weren't built to NASA tollerances. SMB

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hello bob,<BR>my name is Manuel & I have a KC. <BR>I read ur query so i went out & measured where my firewall mounts onto the chassis of my KC.<BR>its 26" from the firewall to the first rivet of the front cross member.<BR>the firewall has a good solid L shaped bracket holding it in position. under the bracket is a thick piece of webbing. <BR>the bonnet, grill & firewall are very difficult to line up.<BR>i check this Dodge site occasionally. the Dodge club site seems to be dead. do u know of any others?? there seem to be millions of sites for pre-war fords.<BR>if u need any more info, or if i can help some more....let me know.<BR>i am trying to get some copies of the Dodge club magazine, just to check it out.<BR>wouldn't it be great if all the DP, HC & KC fellas could get together for a chat!!<BR>hope this helps.<BR>regards,<BR> Manuel

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Thanks Manuel. The Dodge Brothers Club appears to be on it's way out. I dropped my subscription/membership this year after 3 fruitless years of trying to get the KC,KCL technical director to give me some answers and help. I even phoned him at his home and got a non-plussed response out of him while trying to ask for info. This site has been 100% more help thanks to guys like you and Scott. Yes, I would very much to have a site where just '33,'34 and '35 (HC/KC) enthusiasts could go to and exchange info. There is a lot of interest in commercial vehicles now. And there is a lot Dodge pick-up/sedan delivery owners restoring their vehicles in a vaccuum. With the Dodge Brothers Club starting to endorse modifying your Dodge to add overdrive and such,we need an actual source of original info and parts. Thanks again Bob

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Bob:<BR>I hope you are a bit more accurate about measuring your cowl than you are in reading the Dodge Brothers Club News. The single article published on one member's experiences with an overdrive was prefaced with a large note with a serious warning both against possible unsafe driving conditions as well as against the unauthentic nature of this modification. Letters to the editor after this article unanimously chastised this guy for this alteration. <P>There can't be another person on God's Green Earth more opposed to unauthentic modifications than I, the editor of that magazine, as you should have noted from my continual attack against hot rodding and other modifications. I have endured the wrath of hundreds of people outside the club and their hot-rod organizations as a result of my stand on these issues, and I find it less than amusing to read your misplaced comments on this website about the Dodge Brothers Club endorsing overdrives "and more."<P>It's one thing to express your dissatisfaction with one of the club's volunteers (technical advisor) and another to take out your frustrations by misrepresenting a whole group. Fact is the club has more than doubled in membership between 1996 and 2002 and is continually growing. I just increased the print order for the magazines again for October. The club's new, revised website, I understand, is under development by several volunteers who, I suppose aren't working fast enough for you. Please re-read that word "volunteer," used twice in this message.<P>Wouldn't it make more sense to bring the claimed uncooperative nature of the tech advisor to the club board for determination than to quit in a huff and whine elsewhere?<P>There's no question that fora like this one will provide faster and more efficient help from people world-wide for specific problems such as those with your truck than a printed magazine. But we need the strength in numbers of a club to help ensure a steady supply of vendors, parts, and other assistance. As you would have read in the upcoming October issue, we have now approached the problem of parts supply for cars and trucks in the 1930-1935 era as a result of the demise of RAM Enterprises, and are soliciting suggestions for most-needed parts in the hopes of persuading a well-known vendor to us to take on the needed projects. A website discussion can never achieve the great pooling of interests that an organization such as the Dodge Brothers Club.

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Bob,<BR> I have watched this discourse about 'measurements' and must say I am curious. What 'unanswered' queries left such a bitter taste? I am tech rep. for 4-cyl. and also happen to have a '34 KC I am trying to put together out of several parts trucks.<BR>I have the '34 truck maintenence manual and would be happy to copy the pages in group 14 'Body' for you if you wish. Send me your 'snail mail' address. My email adress is rah3601.wa@netzero.net Unfortunately, there are NO specific measurements as has been said by several others. And, in the afforementioned manual it simply mentions shimming as needed to align fenders and hood! I believe, in talking to many other antique restorers, that this 'alignment' of body, et all is perhaps one of the most frustrating parts of any restoration.<BR>By the way please note there may be several differences in those measurements between the KC (111"wb) and the KCL (119"wb).And, <BR>There were some other differences in the 'early '35 and those after April, considered later '35!

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Bob,<BR> P.S. For what it's worth, the truck maintenence manual also stipulates one more thing. Before attempting any shimming or adjustment of the cab be sure to loosen the 4 bolts holding the steering gear to the frame and the 2 bolts securing the steering column to the dash. And do not forget to retighten those afterward.<BR> You will notice those "L" shaped brackets referred to have quite a large slot in them as do the attaching brackets on the frame AND so do the 2 bolts under the radiator/grille assembly. There is quite a bit of fiddling adjustment associated. I dare say this was quite a coordinated team effort on the final assembly and rather a pain for us restorers to do on a one off, by ourselves, basis.<BR>Good luck!

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Bob, R.A.H. and JB--Wow, I don't want to get involved in battles over club efficiency, etc. However, I think a valid point or two has been raised. First, clubs do serve an important purpose when it comes to coordinating efforts towards getting fabricators/etc to meet our needs. Things have been tough since Al Smith of RAM Enterprises passed away--he was a great guy and was the only source for many items. My understanding is that Mike Northcott of Dodge City in Northern California bought out much of his inventory but I have not had much success communicating with him despite several attempts. Has anybody else had any luck? I know he is contemplating a web site but it doesn't appear to be up yet.

As regards the difficulty of obtaining information, that is just one of the challenges of restoring something as rare/unusual as the KCLs. Everything is a trade off. If you want a 34 Ford like anybody else, then parts are easy to come by. Trying to find frame dimensions for a 119" KCL is another matter. All we can do is stick together and try to exchange information/experiences as best as possible. JB makes a good point that, while the internet is light years ahead of a printed magazine when it comes to response time and the audience, both have good points.

On the original topic of this discussion, it occurs to me that part of Bob's alignment problem may be the square steel spacers under the radiator/fender support at the two through-bolt connections. My recollection from restoring two 34 Plymouth PEs and my KCL panel is that these vary in number--sometimes one and sometimes two--although the number is usually the same side to side. If this dimension is off (for example, if the spacers are entirely missing), that would lower the grille shell, throwing off the dimension between the trailing edge of the hood and the cowl. Just a thought for something else to check...SMB

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Hi Guys;

I took some measurements of the radiator itself and noticed that the part number isn't

exactly the same number as in the 'K' Series Parts book. My rad number is 'CPDD 569977'.

The book says it should be '569979',two digits different. I'm wondering if it makes any

significant physical difference. The rad measures 20 1/2" from the bottom of the top tank to

the bottom of the radiator. From the bottom of the top tank to the top most part of the

support rods holder is almost exactly 5". So the overall height is 25 1/2"? I'm assuming the

width measurements are correct because it fits the rad shell with the same numbers of

mounting holes on the two side flanges. The neck hole also comes up through the rad shell and I can screw rad cap OK. But I'm wondering if at some time the rad has been changed out to a car part and they are not exactly the same dimensions as

the KCs. Could some one let me know. Thanks Bob <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Hello JB,

As editor of the Dodge club mag, i was wondering if i could make a request. I was given a couple of the club mags, the ones covering the DP models. [ I have a KC] I found them very interesting & informative. Is it possible to get some more of them? I am in Australia & would be interested in some of the later editions as they said they were going to cover the 1932 & 34 models.

I sent an email thru the Dodge club site but haven't received an answer as yet.

My email is manuel@webone.com.au.

regards,

Manuel

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Bob--You have what appears to be the right radiator (at least the tank, which is where the number is stamped, is right)for your KCL. I reviewed my Dodge Truck parts book, issued 6/15/35, that supercedes the issue of 9/15/34. For KC/KCL radiators it lists the following:

--up to serial # 8048701-9203901, part #566049

--after serial # " - " , part #569977 (yours)

The book also lists #566048 as for "export, with greater cooling capacity" and also lists #570512 as "Fedders, export only"

Hope that helps. SMB

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Thanks a lot. At least now I don't have the question of whether or not I have the wrong radiator in it. As I mentioned to you I'm going to put the fenders up against the rad shell and fix them in place first. Then I'm going to work backwards to the cowl and lift or drop it to make the gaps on the hood correct. The shims under the rad and rad bracket should be defined when I set the fenders and rad shell together. The shims under the cowl should be defined when I set the hood gaps. I will then have to raise or lower the rear body with shims on the Dodge frame brackets. If I can ever get the alignment finished up satisfactorily I have everything else ready to go on. Thanks a lot for the help and input. I'll keep in touch.

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