Magic Potions

[avgwarhawk]

14 hours ago, Beemon said:

You know I gotta say with this Washington heat wave, it's the first time I've experienced vapor lock. I can definitely say the car runs better in 70% humidity with the rains. I'm pretty sure the Australians used water injection to combat extreme heat. Plus colder air is more dense, so the little bit of water in the intake is probably enough to keep ambient intake temperatures cool.

Knock on wood for me, have not experienced vapor lock of any degree on both of my Buicks.  

Concerning water, it is my understanding that dense rainy air allows oxygen and fuel molecules to combine easier. 

[dei]

1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

Concerning water, it is my understanding that dense rainy air allows oxygen and fuel molecules to combine easier. 

 

I guess that is why on a cool morning with that just between haze and fog my Buick's always seemed to run best?

[avgwarhawk]

On 8/6/2017 at 9:36 AM, dei said:

 

I guess that is why on a cool morning with that just between haze and fog my Buick's always seemed to run best?

To my understanding, yes. Normally when its cold or damp, air is denser, i.e has more oxygen. This is better suited for engine running as the air and fuel mixture mix easier in these conditions. Better mixed fuel and air results in a better volumetric efficiency, which results in more power. 
High performance turbo engine use the aid of an intercooler, which has the effect of cooling the intake air, making it denser and resulting in more power.

Edited August 7, 2017 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[Roadmaster75]

Serious drag racers have weather stations in their trailers for a reason.

The  "air density" meter probably the most useful gauge in the pits.

Humid , hot days at the strip meant slower times.

Cooler, less humid air meant quicker times.

Air pressure, air temperature, and humidity comprise "air density".

Damp wet air requires leaner tunes.  More dry air allows for richer tunes to make more power.

Water molecules in the air are not conducive to burning fuel.

 

I ran an alcohol front engine dragster for a number of years.  The air density meter pretty much dictated

the choice of nozzles on the mechanical fuel injection set up.

 

Gasoline passenger cars are more forgiving, but the principle is the same.

Our Buicks will always run better on a cool, dry autumn evening.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

21 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

I guess that is why on a cool morning with that just between haze and fog my Buick's always seemed to run best?

 

On those mornings the barometric pressure between one's ear drum and their brain changes. The low pressure makes the brain feel like is might escape and creates endorphins. You can get the same affect by petting a small dog in the passenger seat... or a woman's hair.

Bernie

[FLYER15015]

I always run avgas and water injection in my CORSAIR.

Edited August 11, 2017 by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

On 8/8/2017 at 11:23 AM, FLYER15015 said:

I always run avgas and water injection in my CORSAIR.

 

 

Well sure...at those altitudes.  

[60FlatTop]

Barney said it was fine for his Corsair and figured it would work on Ford's, too.

 

Bernie, not Barney

[NTX5467]

Is that an Edsel in Mayberry?

 

I remember all of those reasons for why water/alcohol injection was supposed to work.  But when you do the math and determine how much extra power the cooler air imparts to horsepower production, it seems a little iffy to me.  I believe the real reason was the alcohol in the water mix, that helped combustion happen easier.  Might have helped cool the mixture a little more than normal?

 

At least, back then, there was usually plenty of room under the hood for the toilet paper oil filter, the water injection unit, and some of the other "things" that some claimed to make the engines run better.

 

NTX5467

[D Yaros]

Well now, my 1976 Ford Pinto, 6 cyl., had a toilet paper filter.  It also had 185K on the odometer when I passed the car on to owner #2.  So, it may be stated with certainty that the tp filter did hurt/harm the engine.

[Bhigdog]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 11:23 AM, FLYER15015 said:

I always run avgas and water injection in my CORSAIR.

 

If that is indeed your F4U you win the "Whoever dies with the most (best) toys contest"...............Bob

[avgwarhawk]

I'll take a Hellcat, P-38 or P-40. I'm not picky.

[KAD36]

34 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

 

If that is indeed your F4U you win the "Whoever dies with the most (best) toys contest"...............Bob

 

X2.  Favorite warbird!

 

[Bhigdog]

Kinda partial to the P-51 myself . The F8F Bearcat was a beast too. Now does Flyer 15015 REALLY own  a flying F4U?. Because if he does I'm going to burn all my toys. It's hopeless...................Bob

Edited August 17, 2017 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

3 minutes ago, KAD36 said:

 

X2.  Favorite warbird!

 

P-40 Warhawk is my favorite. This my forum name I have used for 20 years on the net. AVG (American Volunteer Group)who flew the Warhawk. 

[EmTee]

57 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

AVG (American Volunteer Group)who flew the Warhawk.

 

Ah - that makes sense!  I kept thinking "average warhawk" ??? 

[avgwarhawk]

9 minutes ago, EmTee said:

 

Ah - that makes sense!  I kept thinking "average warhawk" ??? 

You will now sleep better knowing this has been cleared up. ?

[avgwarhawk]

I dumped some KL100 in the lawn mower.   Took care of a  odd unsteady rpm.  In short, surge up and down on a Briggs and Stratton with a governed carb.   Hmmmm....what else can I try?        

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Hmmmm....what else can I try?    

 

Drizzle some on your bran flakes. ......................Bob

[FLYER15015]

16 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

P-40 Warhawk is my favorite. This my forum name I have used for 20 years on the net. AVG (American Volunteer Group)who flew the Warhawk. 

Ya, but it has to be an "N" model,

Longer tail and much more stable.

 

Mike in Colorado

[avgwarhawk]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

 

Drizzle some on your bran flakes. ......................Bob

My not perk me up due to the alcohol content!  

[avgwarhawk]

15 minutes ago, FLYER15015 said:

Ya, but it has to be an "N" model,

Longer tail and much more stable.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

I love all the models of the P-40.  Not a superior aircraft compared to the Hellcat or Corsair.  But for me, the overall look of the aircraft is magic to my eye.  Plus, when I was a kid we had a Cox P-40 fly by string.  It was really cool for a kid  like me.   I do have a little spot in my heart for the Wildcat.          

[FLYER15015]

FYI, about 1943 a few N models were fitted with the RR Merlin, and they did a little better, especially above 12K feet, but by that time, the Mustang had pretty much taken over, and Curtiss was reduced to making sub assemblies for North American's P-51.

Curtiss just could not fit a laminar flow wing to the Warhawk and their old airfoil was passé by then.

 

Mike 

[NTX5467]

12 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

I dumped some KL100 in the lawn mower.   Took care of a  odd unsteady rpm.  In short, surge up and down on a Briggs and Stratton with a governed carb.   Hmmmm....what else can I try?        

 

After a season of E10, my new mower go the "rpm ups and downs" syndrome.  Acted like a governor gone bezerk, but there was NO governor!  I fixed it with a strong dose (the label states there is no problem with "over-dose") of the Lucas Ethanol SHIELD (aka "green stuff").  After about 20 minutes of run time, in tall grass, the mower suddenly gained a steady rpm that was higher than it ever had, with a devilish higher-rpm sound, and stayed there.  I could not make it bog of kill the motor by feeding it too much grass!  It'd be under load, bt never faltered or died!  End or "rpm up and downs" syndrome.  If I ever put some pure E10 in it, it'd start to have a relapse, but another dose of the Lucas green stuff fixed it.  When I put some in my 2000 Impala, nothing unusual in how it acted.  

 

The next time I used the mower (after the "higher rpm" time), it acted perfectly normal in all respects.  Very well behaved!  Other benefits?  The spark plug is always clean.  After the required number of pumps of the fuel bulb, it almost always starts on the first pull, if not the second . . . . unless some water has crept into the tank after a strong rain event.

 

Happy grass slinging!

NTX5467

[avgwarhawk]

Update:

 

-The 60 still runs like a top.  Hesitation every now and then.  If I ease on the gas pedal there is no hesitation at all.  Fine by me.  It ain't a race car

-The lawnmower that  had  a surging engine still run runs smooth as silk after one treatment

 

The next victim is my KIA Optima. 2010 with 73000 on the ticker.  She would sometimes have a very difficult time starting.  Usually cold start.  2-3 times a week.  I used one treatment.  I have not had an issue since.

 

My conclusion is this product does provide benefit to gasoline engines.     Probably not a good haircare product.   

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[dmfconsult]

I find this an interesting thread, as I'm a steady user of MMO in the gas (sometimes a little in the oil).  Don't know if it works, I just feel better about using it I guess.  We have 94 octane, ethanol free fuel up here from Chevron at all stations, and I use it in both old buicks and my lawnmowers, and never had a problem, but still put a few ounces of MMO.  I once saw a video with the editor of "skinned knuckles" magazine demonstrating an "old guy trick" of drizzling MMO directly into the carburetor until the car stalled.  You were to do this just as shutting down the engine for the last time before storage.  I tried it once, car eventually stuttered and stalled after billowing mucho white smoke.  When I fired it up in the Spring, it started hard, but eventually caught and ran fine but then continued to billow white smoke for about 20 min before it cleared.  Besides annoying the neighbors, I figured I had hurt the engine by the stunt in the fall.  Never did it again, as it didn't sit right with the stumbling finish and hard start.

 

By the way, on the water injection topic... the new BMW M4 GTS (basically a track car for the street) uses water injection to boost power.  There is a gallon tank in the trunk that you have to refill with distilled water after so many tanks of gas.  By all accounts, it works well.  What's old is new again!

Edited October 19, 2017 by dmfconsult (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Actually, the '62 Olds JetFire turbo had a special additive for the gallon jug under the hood.  That motor didn't get the lower compression that normally went with turbocharging back then.  The Corvair Spyder got the lower compression ratio and "no fluid", but the Olds kept the normal 10.0 approx. compression ratio and need the methanol/water mix to reduce detonation under power.  Seems like there was a caution to not use full throttle if the fluid was depleted?

 

On the BMW, did the water injection replace an intercooler?

 

NTX5467

[dmfconsult]

I believe the M4 GTS  uses a twin turbo 3.0 Liter inline 6 cylinder, so the water injection is used in conjunction with the turbos to boost HP over the standard M4.