Beemon

Me and my beautiful 1956 Buick

Recommended Posts

Ben, you won't be sorry. While the system I have does use a ECM, no way would I go back to a carb.  Today's gas formulations REQUIRE FI. 

 You may not need to go for the fancy distributor. I had mine modified by a gentleman in OR.  Cost was about $85, including return postage.  Mount the 7 pin GM module where you like.  I am not finicky for looks, so mounted it on the cowl. 

 

 I will be watching.

 

  Ben 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Ben, you won't be sorry. While the system I have does use a ECM, no way would I go back to a carb.  Today's gas formulations REQUIRE FI. 

 You may not need to go for the fancy distributor. I had mine modified by a gentleman in OR.  Cost was about $85, including return postage.  Mount the 7 pin GM module where you like.  I am not finicky for looks, so mounted it on the cowl. 

 

 I will be watching.

 

  Ben 

 

Ben - will not try to talk you back into a carburetor, BUT TODAYS GAS FORMULATIONS REQUIRE FI IS A BIT STIFF.

 

My shop truck is a dual four barrel 390 450 HP in a F-100. Fuel economy at 70 MPH is 22 MPG. The carbs have been untouched on the engine for 18 years. How does your efi compare?

 

I will agree that newer efi systems have improved greatly, and almost approach the efficiency of a well-calibrated carburetor (not yet convinced of their reliability), but REQUIRED???

 

I MIGHT consider efi if I lived in a state such as Colorado, where I drove at altitudes varying from 3500 to 12000 feet daily, but other than that, REQUIRED???

 

Jon.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang, Jon, you were not supposed to see this!:D.  

  OK, maybe not required.  Although not many out here have the expertise and knowledge you have.  What I can say is it always starts, never "vapor locks". No sputtering, backfiring, running rich or lean. Coupled with the HEI and ECM controlling timing, I like what it does.

 

  Been in there seven years, 15,000 miles.  Haven't always surpassed 20mpg, but have lately. 

 

  I can't speak for the aftermarket ones, but mine, from a 1990 Chevy PU 350 does a good job.

 

  Ben

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would buy the MSD distributor because it has the pin out for timing control. I can have my distributor retrofit to HEI, but I do not think I can wire it to be controlled by an ECM? I'll have to do some more research.

 

Regarding carbs, there is a 2347S on eBay right now that is an exact match to mine. I will see if I can snag it as my last foray into carburetors. Honestly, I like fiddling with carburetors, I just do not like the car dying at a drive thru window or intersection. Or having to compensate for years of wear and tear. I'd like to say with my limited knowledge and experience, I'm pretty good at setting a carb. But the ancient tech is slowly wearing on me. About gas, I've never had an issue until last year with vapor lock. But I don't want to do any work arounds, either. My car was never meant to be a show queen, it is meant to be enjoyed and while I am not keen on changing too much, some things I don't have a problem changing. Like for instance, getting rid of this boat anchor gear box that was supposedly fixed.

 

Jon, sorry I have not gotten back to you about my carb btw. I have been sitting on the kit for a while. Circumstances have kind of shifted my focus elsewhere recently. But from what I can see from the kit supplied, the air horn to choke housing gasket is different.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben, my distributor is ECM controlled. I see no reason yours could not be.

 

Buck Cleveland Distributor     541 929 4034

Buck Cleveland    cell               541 990 2151

 

 I can't remember the town, but near Eugene, OR.

 

  Ben

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

56356608_458549951352496_416139673367216128_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_eui2=AeE_jcakrPTry2EKi53MEX5TpU7V8UFClCeYfuNGA5u2fRXWKFlgOdbMbWG1quFWlBI9I1VPo_w1X3fP_qOF93M1-02N_iiE4dwbGtGUAH8edA&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=0bcdc4b70ea65bff33bffa6cd41388a5&oe=5D096485

 

Thought to be lost forever, we've finally found the title.

  • Like 6
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Image may contain: outdoor

 

It's kind of been a while since my last update. Nothing has changed really. I've fallen out of contact with the big desert junkyard in Arizona and might have to settle for wet Washington junkyard fenders. However, I have a small dillema. The first fender has a big dent in the side of it, but it is complete and solid. The second fender has no dents and is solid, but is missing the spot welded triangle piece that holds it to the splash apron (and they want more money for it). These are my only two options right now barring shipping for some questionable parts. Any suggestions?

 

I feel I can pound out the dent in the busted one, but it is creased so it will most likely need some bondo finishing. And, I have never done body work before.

 

57403883_2270471143168694_7454539453063757824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=d0a8616487812e719b8e355a38daeabb&oe=5D727E58

57238823_390855388428484_6454113901922484224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=8739adfbaac8db32b62c7bc68b2fa95c&oe=5D3417D7

 

I don't have an image of the other car, but it is more or less perfect, just missing that one part. The fender is also rolled out on the bottom lip at the front of the wheel well, too. I'm thinking its going to be a lot of work? Also that piece below the turn indicator, with the little tab, is the piece missing off the good fender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO go for the straight one. Can the triangle piece be salvaged from yours? Maybe pounded straight? Just looking at it, that little piece would have to be really horrible to be more work than the big dent in the fender pictured here.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bloo said:

IMHO go for the straight one. Can the triangle piece be salvaged from yours? Maybe pounded straight? Just looking at it, that little piece would have to be really horrible to be more work than the big dent in the fender pictured here.

 

The issue is that that piece is spot welded to the fender itself, if I am remembering it right. I guess I could drill holes where the spot welds go and weld it back.

 

57467789_389949508224407_8602727405494206464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=7d0c79e08866e7f195f8d2c26cd2fabb&oe=5D2FF7AD

 

This is the grill. It's all rough, but solid. I don't think I've got much chance on this stuff really. I can't seem to either get a call back from junkyards or their grills have been man handled (seriously I don't get this, you'd think junkyards would want to make money on this stuff instead of destroying it by dumping cars on top of cars, but I digress). There's a really nice yard in Idaho but I didn't even bother pursuing them since their prices seemed absurd to me, considering everything will need to be replated at some point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Beemon said:

I guess I could drill holes where the spot welds go and weld it back.

Spot weld cutter ...probably available locally too.  Little parts like that extension are easy to get back in shape even if mangled (tedious and you may have to use some putty).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Beemon said:

 

The issue is that that piece is spot welded to the fender itself, if I am remembering it right. I guess I could drill holes where the spot welds go and weld it back.

 

57467789_389949508224407_8602727405494206464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=7d0c79e08866e7f195f8d2c26cd2fabb&oe=5D2FF7AD

 

This is the grill. It's all rough, but solid. I don't think I've got much chance on this stuff really. I can't seem to either get a call back from junkyards or their grills have been man handled (seriously I don't get this, you'd think junkyards would want to make money on this stuff instead of destroying it by dumping cars on top of cars, but I digress). There's a really nice yard in Idaho but I didn't even bother pursuing them since their prices seemed absurd to me, considering everything will need to be replated at some point. 

Sent U an email about parts. Please check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got under the car today and saw that it's bolted and not spot welded, so I should be good to go.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I forgot to mention the hood is split on the sides like this image. All the hoods I've been able to find are split like that at the crease. Is that indicative of anything? 

20190312_144608.jpg

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Do NOT buy this kit! Seriously! I'm not sure where the seller gets off selling this kit for $500, but their ability to use common power tools leaves something to be desired. What they really need to do is go back to school and re-learn GD&T, though I'm sure given the state of this flange, they probably don't have an education to begin with. This is 100% unacceptable and unusable. If I could I would try and get my money back. It's like this kit was made with rough estimations and eye balling, it is no where near close. An absolute waste.

 

20190421_223156.jpg

20190421_223153.jpg

 

This also means that I am getting close to finalizing my prototype. In fact I am so confident, I am buying the material tomorrow to be plasma cut (the water jet is unfortunately down, so it will probably come out really bad). Ideally I would like to buy .5" steel stock and then machine out the flange, but that would probably be a little difficult to find and is most likely expensive. Aside from the top right hole, which is common to both patterns, the other raised parts will be tapped the same thread pitch as the OEM bolts so the OEM bolts can be used to secure the adapter. The top right raised hole sits over the steering box, so we'll see how that goes. I was unfortunately more focused on putting my original steering box back in the car to see how my paper weight goes into the frame mounts. The closer I get to putting this guy out of business the better I feel. Sorry if I am coming off harsh, but I am done with this rampant negligence that plagues the car hobby.

 

image.thumb.png.1ae9ef107165880909c598035d077e12.png

 

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow that isn't even close I'm so glad I didn't spend the 900 on his kit.. He wouldn't sell me just the bracket.. Although I probably could have opened a case through PayPal etc but still

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 4:38 PM, Beemon said:

I forgot to mention the hood is split on the sides like this image. All the hoods I've been able to find are split like that at the crease. Is that indicative of anything? 

20190312_144608.jpg

 

Thanks for the picture. It confirms what I've been saying for years that the color of the OEM factory under-the-hood insulation was YELLOW at one time and not GRAY on these early Buicks.

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 1953mack said:

 

Thanks for the picture. It confirms what I've been saying for years that the color of the OEM factory under-the-hood insulation was YELLOW at one time and not GRAY on these early Buicks.

 

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Some, maybe.  But all 55's that I have and have seen were gray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Beemon, glad to see you're moving forward with the Jeep steering box conversion. 

 

I'm not sure if I ever sent you a picture of my bracket, but it looks very similar to your design. The top forward hole (facing the front of the car) is reused, and the rest fall into place based on the bolt pattern of each box.

 

The Buick frame curves inward in that area, so you will need to experiment with the spacing (similar to the washers used on the adapter you bought). The adapter needs to be as close to the frame as possible while maintaining clearance in order to line up with the steering column.

 

I would advise against the cutout center in your design. The steering box will have some flex when turning the wheel. You'll want to make the adapter as strong as possible.

 

Here are a couple of pics that were taken during mockup:

 

20170417_195835.thumb.jpg.7242705701cb3972ece6c7c7fd1c315f.jpg

 

20170417_195825.thumb.jpg.a4e89229aa48b81eab874b06cd481eff.jpg

Edited by 1956century (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I did not tap the bottom two holes. I threaded on grade 8 nuts from the backside.

 

The only threaded hole was the top middle (referencing your drawing) as it overlaps the new steering box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The adapter flange is mighty strong, I will post the FEA Analysis here shortly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The parts are here. They could be better, but this is what I have to work with. 

20190426_204129.jpg

20190426_204122.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Image may contain: car, tree and outdoor

 

Well it's not pretty, but she's back together. The parts are less than ideal, but they're solid for the most part (at least the grill pieces are). After mounting, I found that the bumper had indeed been pushed in on the driver side, so I just need to shim it out about 1/8" to get the parts to line up. The hood has rust through on the inside stamped sheet metal and the fender, while mostly solid, is pretty rough. I've found it difficult to find affordable hood and fenders that I can forward to the insurance company, so I may try to have the original hood and fender straightened on their dime, since it was included in the base cost analysis. If you didn't notice from the photo, the black fender is also rolled at the seam that is parallel to the hood, so the fitment is near impossible (gap is correct at the base and end by the windshield, nearly touching in the center).

 

Also, I think I've narrowed down the vibration issues I've been having. Around town here, when slowing down there's been a thud thud thud thud when stopping or accelerating. Moreover, halfway back to school all symptoms had vanished and then re-appeared after some braking. I also discovered that my driver side rear axle seals are leaking. So my new theories are that either a cord or band in the tire blew, causing out of balance/out of round conditions, the wheel is no longer balanced itself, or I have sticking brakes at high speed, which I have also encountered before when I had drums on the front. I have had U-joint failure before on other cars, it's a constant thing and not something that goes away after driving a long time, nor get better. It also can't be wheel bearings - there is no noise and they are tight in the hub, and new. When I pulled the hubs after getting home, the bearings were still good and not discolored, gouged, scored or whatever else. I know suspension can also cause vibration at highway speeds (seems 65-70 is the normal speed harmonic for which all cars experience some type of balance vibration), but my tie rods haven't been adjusted in 3 years now. I'm hoping I can get the tie rods adjusted when I get this steering box flange made, hopefully tomorrow. 

 

Speaking of steering box flange... I used this as a reference and rough starting point for my analysis. Specifically, I went to the upper end and assumed a lateral force exerted on the steering box of 1500 N to give a little wiggle room since tires and such are different. After using a design insight plot to thin out the center (and with a 2.7 FOS, I probably could have gotten away with more), I arrived at the final design with the hollow cut out. Also, for comparison, I made a .125" study (the base piece is .25" thick). It's not feasible anyways with the countersink holes, but I still wanted to see what the halved thickness would do, and it dropped the FOS by quite a bit. FOS being the factor of safety. I hope this helps with my justification for the lighting in the center. With a 2.7 FOS at the upper end of the perceived viewed forces acting laterally on the steering box (and flange by default), I think this design is bulletproof. However, it still requires actual real life testing. My experience with this program has been accurate 100% of the time when it comes to static studies, regardless, so my confidence is high. Forgot to mention, the material used is a generic mild steel, which would be available in extruded flat stock at any local metal retailer or possibly hardware store.

 

 

 

SteeringBoxFlange-Static1-Image-1.png

SteeringBoxFlange-Static 2 from [Static1]-Image-1.png

Edited by Beemon (see edit history)
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Beemon  Glad it is back together.  Maybe you could at least salvage the old hood.  

 

As to the steering flange study, I will confess I am lost.  I can see the difference in the counter sunk bolt hole diameters.  Is there need for that to align the different steering gear?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the steering flange bolt holes are perfect sizing. However, the steering box sits over 1/8" off center and a little high that it requires changing the steering wheel alignment. I think if I can shim the bottom to rotate the top over, it could be made to work, but the pitman arm geometry would be off. In the end, i'm not sure what i'm going to do about the steering box because everything is off without changing the pitman arm geometry. I think im just going to look into maybe a rack and pinion type modification. RIP $500.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have any pictures of the misalignment?

 

Mine lined up perfectly with the steering column using a 1/4" adapter. Also, the frame has slotted holes which allow for vertical tilt adjustment of the steering box (it pivots on one of the holes - top/forward IIRC).

 

I did notice that once installed, the intermediate shaft sat a bit higher on the steering box side. I was able to adjust the idler arm upward to level it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...