Frank DuVal Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Way way far from topic, but I had to correct my own statement. The first number of the AC Delco part number is the thread size of the plug. 4 means 14 mm, and 8 means 18 mm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick special Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 I went back to the parts store today for the R46 plugs I was correct that they were a longer electrode tip as the guy was not giving me R46s I had asked for he was giving me R46S _ _ So I asked him for R45 plugs and he had 8 of them in stock and they looked correct so I purchased them instead PS a quick question the metal gasket was not on the plug and was loose in the box which side of the metal gasket faces the bottom of the plug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) I found the AC-45 was not quite hot enough. I've been buying 46s off of the Internet up until now. Recently I tried AC-47 but I'm not that satisfied with them, at least not as yet. But, the 47 may also be discontinued, I'm not sure. Edited August 25, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick special Posted August 26, 2017 Author Share Posted August 26, 2017 14 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said: I found the AC-45 was not quite hot enough. I've been buying 46s off of the Internet up until now. Recently I tried AC-47 but I'm not that satisfied with them, at least not as yet. But, the 47 may also be discontinued, I'm not sure. does anyone else have problems with the r45 plug not preforming well? should I return them and get the r46 plugs off the web instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 2 hours ago, buick special said: does anyone else have problems with the r45 plug not preforming well? should I return them and get the r46 plugs off the web instead? Very simple: Buy all of the NOS AC-46 spark plugs off the net that you can find and stock them on your shelf to cover the period you expect to keep the car. They are still out there. And there are other "off-brand" plug out there NOS that were produced specifically to replace them. The AC book tells us that lower numbers are cooler plugs. If a straight 8 plug is too cool it will foul over time. They did foul over time in my car, and my car is not an oil burner...............but, it's not run everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Albert Champion came to the USA in the 1890's as a motorcycle racer. there was no supply of plugs for his European cycle, so he began to make his own plugs. other people wanted his plugs so he began selling Champion spark plugs. When he decided to return to Europe, he sold his Champion business , included the name. Durant did not like buying components from competitors. He hired Albert Champion to start a business of producing spark plugs. The name Champion could not be used in the new business so it was Called AC. Durant eventually bought out Albert's interest in the business. Durant also bought Delco (Detroit electric Company) and eventually merged the two ignition businesses. So Albert Champion started up two of the big 3 plug companies in the USA. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 3 hours ago, buick special said: does anyone else have problems with the r45 plug not preforming well? should I return them and get the r46 plugs off the web instead? They work wonderfully in my 1937 Century. I have no idea why Earl has problems with them in his 1939 Buick, but they work good in my car. If they gave lots of people trouble, I doubt Bob's would be selling them. I have not heard anybody else complaining about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 (edited) The need for 45 or 46 spark plugs depend on the overall condition of your engine. If the engine is "new" and tight and does not burn any oil, the 45 heat range plugs should work fine. (provided the carb is set up properly and not rich). If the engine is getting tired and burning / using oil then the 46 plugs would be needed. If it is really bad for oil consumption then might need to go to 47's. Going to a higher heat range was the fix in "the old days" to keep a tired engine on the road. That was when a ring and valve job was needed every 50,000 miles +-. Sometimes a hotter heat range plug was put into a single cylinder if it was fouling out the spark plug. Not an unusual temporary fix for an engine that needed more extensive work but the owner did not want or had the ability to spend the money for the fix. Edited August 26, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) On 8/26/2017 at 8:35 AM, Larry Schramm said: The need for 45 or 46 spark plugs depend on the overall condition of your engine. If the engine is "new" and tight and does not burn any oil, the 45 heat range plugs should work fine. (provided the carb is set up properly and not rich). If the engine is getting tired and burning / using oil then the 46 plugs would be needed. If it is really bad for oil consumption then might need to go to 47's. Going to a higher heat range was the fix in "the old days" to keep a tired engine on the road. That was when a ring and valve job was needed every 50,000 miles +-. Sometimes a hotter heat range plug was put into a single cylinder if it was fouling out the spark plug. Not an unusual temporary fix for an engine that needed more extensive work but the owner did not want or had the ability to spend the money for the fix. My car doesn't burn oil and the engine has been totally rebuilt. For awhile, because of lack of use, I think I had one or more stuck rings. I was advised to use some Rislone and I did. The car no longer had the stuck rings. I will say, it was during that period of time that I had a AC-45 plug or two foul and I stopped using them. The car calls for AC-46 so as long as I can find them, I'm going to use them and then I'll do something different. The car runs great on AC-47, but it doesn't want to start hot until it cools, like vapor lock. So, it's possible the 47's are too hot. But, I think its the electronic ignition. The deal is, I've had one problem or another ever since I installed an electronic ignition kit and one of their coils.... not one single day or time has there not been some sort of problem. I may be timing, but when I get back home in Florida I'm going to install a completely rebuilt distributor I have (purchased from Doug Seybold) and go back to points and condenser and AC-46 plugs. A guy told me he used AC-47 with that kit and it was wonderful. Well, the car ran perfect with the old points & condenser for years and I'm going back to it. It has never run right with the electronic ignition kit.....not for one day or time. I solved the ignition breaking down problem only to acquire hard starting when hot. I only ever installed that kit because I couldn't find a mechanic on a trip who knew how to install points & condenser...I decided to learn how myself, but took the easier way out with the electronic ignition kit. Easy is never the best way to go on anything I've found in my 79 years. Edited August 27, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 4 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said: I think its the electronic ignition. The deal is, I've had one problem or another ever since I installed an electronic ignition kit and one of their coils.... not one single day or time has there not been some sort of problem. I may be timing, but when I get back home in Florida I'm going to install a completely rebuilt distributor I have (purchased from Doug Seybold) and go back to points and condenser and AC-46 plugs. A guy told me he used AC-47 with that kit and it was wonderful. Well, the car ran perfect with the old points & condenser for years and I'm going back to it. It has never run right with the electronic ignition kit.....not for one day or time. I solved the ignition breaking down problem only to acquire hard starting when hot. I only ever installed that kit because I couldn't find a mechanic on a trip who knew how to install points & condenser...I decided to learn how myself, but took the easier way out with the electronic ignition kit. Easy is never the best way to go on anything I've found in my 79 years. I understand the electronic ignition, but I do not get the retrofitting of the old cars. They ran great when properly maintained and with good parts not worn out things like distributor bushings, old wires, wrong plugs, bad points, etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Larry Schramm said: I understand the electronic ignition, but I do not get the retrofitting of the old cars. They ran great when properly maintained and with good parts not worn out things like distributor bushings, old wires, wrong plugs, bad points, etc..... Larry, it all went back to problems I had on an AACA Founders Tour with my 1971 Riviera. I couldn't get any condenser that didn't go out in short order. And then, I couldn't find any mechanic who knew what a Dwell Meter was, had one, or had ever installed points and condenser.....even in Breezwood, PA at the largest garage there. Somebody told me about the electronic ignition and how great it was, so I had one installed in the Riviera. It's run great ever since. So, I decided to do the same thing to the two '39 Buicks and and never worry again about points and condenser. I only did one (in my picture) and it's never run right since. But, I'm not home now until after Hershey, so I can't put it back until then. AC46 all the way. I will also have to learn how to put in points and condenser myself this winter. I just kind of didn't want to learn it.....stupid yes.....but, I'm the kind of guy who still prefers a flip cell phone. Edited August 28, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 If you like a flip phone, you will love points & condensers. I just saw a dwell meter, timing light and something else at a flea market this weekend $20.00 for all. Did not buy it as I already have a oscilloscope and extra dwell meter. Trying to keep the amount of stuff that I have at bay or even get rid of some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said: Larry, it all went back to problems I had on an AACA Founders Tour with my 1971 Riviera. I couldn't get any condenser that didn't go out in short order. And then, I couldn't find any mechanic who knew what a Dwell Meter was, had one, or had ever installed points and condenser.....even in Breezwood, PA at the largest garage there. Somebody told me about the electronic ignition and how great it was, so I had one installed in the Riviera. It's run great ever since. So, I decided to do the same thing to the two '39 Buicks and and never worry again about points and condenser. I only did one (in my picture) and it's never run right since. But, I'm not home now until after Hershey, so I can't put it back until then. AC46 all the way. I will also have to learn how to put in points and condenser myself this winter. I just kind of didn't want to learn it.....stupid yes.....but, I'm the kind of guy who still prefers a flip cell phone. Earl, You need to buy an engine analyzer. Something like this would make adjusting the points easier... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sears-Craftsman-Engine-Analyzer-Model-161-2161-in-Box-with-Manual-/112534937399?hash=item1a339adf37:g:b7YAAOSwJclZmvAN Or you could bring your car to me and I will help you, but I think it would be a bit cheaper to buy your own meter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Oh, and if you ever need to put your Generator on a "growler" I know where to send you. I did find a set of 6 AC-46's on evilbay for only $69.00 Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, FLYER15015 said: Oh, and if you ever need to put your Generator on a "growler" I know where to send you. I did find a set of 6 AC-46's on evilbay for only $69.00 Mike in Colorado There is a generator/starter/alternator shop outside of Sebring, FL that has a growler. He also has tons of obsolete parts on shelves for old genertors and starters. One thing he has few of and are hard to find are generator field coils. Won't you need 8 AC-46's to make a set? Edited August 28, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Yup, you do need 8 for a Buick, but 6 will do for a Chevy or a Plymouth of that era. Heck there is even a guy on evilbay that is selling ONE AC-46 plug for $2.50 Now if we could only find #8, we'd be all set. It's the thrill of the hunt, right up until you really need the part. Then it's a pain............ Mike in Colorado Edited August 29, 2017 by FLYER15015 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) If you want to get a cheap backup to the standard tune-up set capacitor (condenser), go to www.tubesandmore.com and order a few 0.22 uF 630V polypropylene caps. Part number C-LD22-630. Less than a buck each. Nonpolarized so it doesn't matter which way you put it in. Will work fine to get you home... Cheers, Dave Edited August 30, 2017 by Daves1940Buick56S (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 If I did not need a third set of AC46's, I would JUMP on Pete's offer and not look back !!!!!! Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 On 8/26/2017 at 7:55 AM, Bob Engle said: Durant also bought Delco (Detroit electric Company) and eventually merged the two Bob Engle Dayton. But you knew that. Sorry to mention Dayton so soon after the recent news. But yeah, Dayton Electric Company = Delco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 On 8/25/2017 at 1:45 PM, buick special said: PS a quick question the metal gasket was not on the plug and was loose in the box which side of the metal gasket faces the bottom of the plug? Big side of the gasket goes on first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Morgan Wright said: Big side of the gasket goes on first. Um, this topic is 2 years old? @buick special hasn't been since Jan 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said: Um, this topic is 2 years old? @buick special hasn't been since Jan 2018. I wanted to make sure he didn't leave the plug gaskets in backwards more than 2 years. I didn't want it to become a habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said: Um, this topic is 2 years old? @buick special hasn't been since Jan 2018. True, true, but now some one looking for all this good information may read all the above, and we may have solved a problem that no longer exists. Ain't the web great ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 On 3/12/1969 at 8:03 PM, Al Gore said: I invented the internet today, now can somebody tell me what a spark plug does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 On 8/6/2019 at 10:26 PM, Morgan Wright said: On 3/12/1969 at 8:03 PM, Al Gore said: I invented the internet today, now can somebody tell me what a spark plug does? You must be related to Al Gore & Bernie Sanders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian 41 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 On 8/4/2017 at 8:58 AM, Pete Phillips said: How many R46 plugs do you need? Other old sizes, too... $2 each. Pete Phillips, BCA #7338 Leonard, TX Greetings am fairly new to this site so wanted to see if you are still selling plugs? I have a 41 Buick special. Website is not letting me DM you so would appreciate if you can contact me via site. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Since this thread is 4 years old the plugs are likely long gone by now. I suggest shopping CARS for plugs for your '41: https://oldbuickparts.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne R Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 On 8/5/2017 at 3:55 PM, Guest said: If there was a problem with newer plugs being too long to fit under the cover would an LM plug not be the one to use. I seems to me that they are shorter. Personally, from my experience, I would never use and AC or Champion plug if I could get an NKG. Be careful using NKG they are opposite in reading heat range the higher the number they are lower heat range also stick to what your hand book says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne R Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Using different heat range in model cars is not the only problem that can arise, and even if the plug suppyer states that say plug no z from a/c will fit plug no x from champion, things can vary slightly, i experiance this years ago with Porsche 911 and worst was seventies Alfa Romeo spiders using Bosch alot of those bosch plugs would give alot of problems with factory spec heat range, so alot of owners switched to champion and found with same factory spec heat range, they were perfect , and i know ,that most alfa owners switched to champion. But for Buicks i have always used A/C correct heat spec for that paticular model. Correct tor torque for plugs is---28lbs for new plugs ,and 25 for older used plugs. With our older Buicks and classics examples if you have say 4 cars in your garage, and you changing them and moving them around in garage by cold starting now and then,-----dont only start and move them and bring them to normal operating temp, before moving them around. This helps to stop your plugs fouling and also helps tremendously your engine long term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I'm pretty certain the plugs supplied by CARS for the '41 will be AC #45R (R = resistor/noise suppression). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly_John Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 Hi, Fabian 41. No reason to settle for the AC 45R (a resistor plug) just because the original AC 46 is no longer being made. I still have a few sets of NOS AC 46 spark plugs available. Had them on the shelf for years, still in the original boxes, of course. Also, have a set or two of the AC 46X plug (the ones that have the taller removable brass connector on the top). The AC 46X was the original spark plug in our 1939 Buick's. Don't know about the 41. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Rawling Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 IF I WAS MAKING THE DECISION,, I WOULD BUY THE 46 PLUGS THAT PET PHILLIPS OFFERED AT A BARGAN JPRICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I used R47S plugs, which are two heat ranges hotter and have an extended electrode. My reasoning and results are here: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 4, 2023 Share Posted September 4, 2023 I was wondering whether the extended-tip ("xxS" plug) would work in the 320. They generally resist fouling better than the standard version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deac Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 (edited) Based on Jolly Johns explanation I have just installed AC46X plugs in my 40 Buick 56S. I was running R45's from Bob's. As Jolly John explains the brass screw on terminal on the 46X is longer than a 46. So before starting the installation I compared the length of plugs from the end of the threads to the tip of the terminal and found the 46X to be about an 1/8" longer than the R45. Even with the minor difference in length I was convinced they would fit with the spark plug cover on. So on with the replacement of all 8 plugs. I fired the old girl up and was quite impressed with a minimal crank and a strong and smooth idle to follow. After a few minutes I shut off the engine and mounted the spark plug cover without any interference. Now I do use 8mm MSD Street Fire wires with 90 degree boots and the previous owner converted it to electronic ignition. So then I took my Buick for a spirited road test and the car performed beautifully; dare I say better than when I ran R45's. Edited September 24, 2023 by deac (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly_John Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 "deac" purchased his genuine AC-46X spark plugs from a kindly old BUICK parts guy named "Jolly-John". I heard Jolly-John still has two sets of eight NOS AC-46X plugs on the shelf. The word is the price is $48 per set, plus the shipping. I believe it's always good to put the spark plug BUICK originally specified in our straight eights. No need to compromise with a different heat range plug simply because the original, correct plug is no longer being made, and not available at Rock Auto or wherever for two bucks. We drove our '39 BUICK many thousands of miles, both in town and on the highway headed to BCA meets and Buick Driving Enthusiasts tours. The AC-46X plugs performed well under all driving situations during the 45+ years we enjoyed the '39. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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