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American Rolls Royce (Ghost, PI & PII)


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Thanks A.J.  Dutch must have been keeping his shop busy with whatever work came his way.  Suppose this was shortly after he set up shop on Sunset Boulevard.

 

Love that Bentley pillarless touring coupe, wonder who the coachbuilder is?  Gurney-Nutting, Freestone & Webb, Mulliner?

Edited by 58L-Y8
Who the Bentley coachbuilder is? (see edit history)
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20 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

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I was able to look this car over very well in the 1990's - it is a Walker-Franklin Pirate body right down to the two digit Pirate code stamping on all the castings and ...  I would say nothing exceptional in the way fitted to chassis either - a good display of extra wood and brackets added to untouched existing Walker work to achieve. Again, keep in mind that there are pre-WWII photos of this car, as well as some 30's movie usage.   

 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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17 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

That is Silver Ghost modified in period by Dutch Darrin.   If you would pass along the owner I would love to have that before I blow all my money on a Stearns Knight.

 

image.png.93863d3c31efb90db5de1359b27a88

 

Goddamn that's a good looking car!

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The Rolls Royce world is similar in some respects to the Model J world. Remember this comment...........Restoration of a Ghost, P1, P2, or P3 will make you wish you bought the bargain basement Model J.   American  Rolls Royce cars are that complicated. Dealing with one that some hack tractor mechanic worked on is agony beyond description. In many ways, a Model J is simple, straight forward, and has many parts available. Try and locate P1 or P2 parts..........

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 3:56 PM, alsancle said:

 

That is Silver Ghost modified in period by Dutch Darrin.   If you would pass along the owner I would love to have that before I blow all my money on a Stearns Knight.

 

image.png.93863d3c31efb90db5de1359b27a88

Now THAT would have given the Duesenberg 'Twenty Grand' a run for its money!!

 

Craig

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If you ever have ridden in the front seat of a Franklin Pirate ( the Pirate body styles  were 4 door - 5 passenger and seven passenger capacity, but there was also a Pirate conv coupe built and at least 2 sedans that had the extended door style over the splash apron area) and are over 5 foot 5 inches tall or are long in leg , they are not  comfortable. Fixed front seat not adjustable. I am a little over 6 feet tall but have long legs and driving a Pirate ( except for the 4 door sedan that is in the Franklin museum at Hickory Corners, Mi. and is owned by a good friend in  Pa.) after 5 minutes can become very uncomfortable. It is just like driving a town car, no room to adjust the seat.

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Walt

I assume the non-adjustable front seat was due to the B-pillar-to-B-pillar structural member that was common to open cars then.  From appearances, the Pirates look to have exceptionally broad shoulder room, is that the case?     Covering the frame valence and exposed running boards with the flared-out lower doors gives the affect Dietrich was after but it isn't very attractive when viewed from any other angle than in direct profile.  Its like an early form of that roll of fat designers added to '40's cars to cover the broad step sills.    

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On 3/12/2020 at 12:13 PM, Walt G said:

If you ever have ridden in the front seat of a Franklin Pirate ( the Pirate body styles  were 4 door - 5 passenger and seven passenger capacity, but there was also a Pirate conv coupe built and at least 2 sedans that had the extended door style over the splash apron area) and are over 5 foot 5 inches tall or are long in leg , they are not  comfortable. Fixed front seat not adjustable. I am a little over 6 feet tall but have long legs and driving a Pirate ( except for the 4 door sedan that is in the Franklin museum at Hickory Corners, Mi. and is owned by a good friend in  Pa.) after 5 minutes can become very uncomfortable. It is just like driving a town car, no room to adjust the seat.

In the Speedster series we found you sit pretty low in the car and problem was you sit lower than the clutch, brake, and accelerator pedals - ie somewhat compounded I am sure by height of the driver as much as the position of your legs onto the pedals (your eyes are just slightly above the steering wheel  - an hour was pretty difficult and ideally 20-30 minutes was the best. Interestingly, the steering column was fully adjustable, as were the pedals, and the seat could be handled by any upholster - I am sure if diligent enough you could find a position that is decent enough.

 

A 1931 and 1932 Speedster I believe has an adjustable front seat. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 7:52 AM, 58L-Y8 said:

Thanks A.J.  Dutch must have been keeping his shop busy with whatever work came his way.  Suppose this was shortly after he set up shop on Sunset Boulevard.

Darrin came back to America in 1937 just as things were starting to get uncomfortable in Europe. That black car has the Hibbard and Darrin look but I had read that Fernandez & Darrin (1932-1937) in many ways continued the Hibbard look but also added their own specially designed and built bumpers to help protect their expensive coachwork. That bumper is certainly odd/different to say the least.  Anyhow, here it is featured in a 1935 film showing a rear bumper that's just as ungainly as the front one!

rolls.jpg

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9 minutes ago, md murray said:

Darrin came back to America in 1937 just as things were starting to get uncomfortable in Europe. That black car has the Hibbard and Darrin look but I had read that Fernandez & Darrin (1932-1937) in many ways continued the Hibbard look but also added their own specially designed and built bumpers to help protect their expensive coachwork. That bumper is certainly odd/different to say the least.  Anyhow, here it is featured in a 1935 film showing a rear bumper that's just as ungainly as the front one!

 

The car was in southern California prewar and the original owner was from Pasadena.   The Darrin timeline doesn't quite work since the body was done pre 1935.   But the modifications are currently attributed to him until we come up with something better.

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 Re the Dietrich bodied "speedster" series of cars. These were really 4 door club sedans , most people think of speedsters as boat tail roadster type cars. In 1930 and 1931 ( as John is well aware of!) there was a convertible speedster as well which was a convertible sedan. Speedster was the name Franklin or Dietrich chose to deem this particular body style  As far as I know only the 1932 Franklin series 16a speedster had an adjustable front seat. there were no convertible speedsters in 1932. As John mentioned some/very slight adjustments could be made to the steering column and pedals. The worst case for comfort was the 1929 series 13 model 137 Dietrich speedster. The parking brake was on the left side so if applied and then you wanted to exit the car you had to maneuver your feet and legs around that too! 

For many many years when I attended the Franklin club trek when Bill Harrah was alive and the 3 to 4 cars he had  brought in via his trailer arrived at the trek and the driver who I knew well was told to find me after the cars were unloaded and when he did after exchanging pleasantries I was handed the keys to the cars that were brought in and told "Paul ( Larios) said to give you these and you would take care of it. " Paul Larios was head of the collection at the time - this was decades ago. Well, ok, all went well but I was not well versed ( sill am not) in getting pre WWI brass era cars started/assorted to well to then move to proper locations. Cars with keys were ok, but to get the brass era set and ready to crank over was never my forte. SO I got to drive/move a number of interesting Franklins over the years but the bras era ones I left to others who were more skilled and reacted faster to a crank handle that wanted to kick back and have a close encounter with my right wrist.

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22 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

The car was in southern California prewar and the original owner was from Pasadena.   The Darrin timeline doesn't quite work since the body was done pre 1935.   But the modifications are currently attributed to him until we come up with something better.

It is a pretty standard Franklin=Walker body with really no signifcant modifications other than the cowl area and dashboard - retained the Franklin-Walker interior pattern, all hardware, all body marks, and ....  The modifications came on how to mount a near virtually untouched Franklin body to a Rolls-Royce chassis, adapt the cowl for a longer hood,  install a RR dashboard, create a hood, create fenders, and the front and rear bumpers are a some sort of early 30's car (perhaps 1931 Cadillac) with an overrider system built around via above. below, and on ends. The work was very well done too.  

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52 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

AACA posted these on their Facebook site this week - late 60's and early 1970's Hershey shot

 

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Eddy,  is that the one you clean regularly clean with a toothbrush?

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2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Eddy,  is that the one you clean regularly clean with a toothbrush?


No, I just drive it and fix it.........I have flunky to take care of such things........remember? You keep applying for the job! 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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This was listed for sale in Chicago in a 1976 Flying Lady magazine.   Serial # S 294 FP.    It's called a 1928 Springfield by Bewster.  This had to have been updated in the 1930's, right?   I can't seem to find any recent photos of it online.    IMG_5609.thumb.JPG.1100fcac3e41f2c97af9a3dea6d4962c.JPG

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Peter Kumar is selling this Huntington PII.   Same as the Huntington that Tom Laferriere sold except Tom's was fully sorted and had an open quarter window.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1931-Rolls-Royce-Phantom/274360970512

 

Colgate Family Owned 1931 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Huntington Left-Hand Drive Limousine with Coachwork by BrewsterThis 1931 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Huntington with Coachwork by Brewster was first owned by the Colgate family, founder of Colgate Toothpaste. One of a total of just 125 left hand drive Phantom IIs manufactured. A rare and much prized left-hand-drive AJS-AMS Phantom II with an unusual blind rear quarter, a unique and attractive design for a Huntington. First owned by Mrs. Romulus Riggs Colgate, wife of Romulus Riggs Colgate who was the grandson of the founder of a soap and perfume business that would later become most well-known for its toothpaste. Romulus Colgate made his fortune in the hydro-electric generation business and the manufacture of lead-based paint under the brand "Dutch Boy" and was the owner of a 12,000-square-foot mansion in Litchfield, CT. A fascinating car, which needs a gentle and sympathetic touch to bring it back to life. The car wears an older metallic paint job in good usable condition and has presentable chrome as well. New front chauffeurs compartment with new upholstery. With some attention, the original rear interior is still serviceable with only the rear jump-seats needing re-upholstering. A complete car that's structurally sound and was last running just 2-3 years ago. Offered with excellent ownership documentation regarding the Colgate family connection.LHD Rolls-Royce Phantom II Huntington LimousineCoachwork by Brewster & Co.Chassis no. 216AJSBody no. 7392 First owned by the Colgate Family 1 of 125 left hand drive Phantom II's built A rare and much prized LHD AJS-AMS Phantom II Unusual and attractive Huntington design with Coachwork by BrewsterPrice: $95,000

 

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3 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

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A little harsh in the rear quarter given belt molding retained of a traditional sedan - looks originally done that way or could be a recycled body by Brewster or Inskips. 

 

And then you have the cylinder head issue of being replaced or not. 

 

And unfortunately, market will not support that pricing.

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19 hours ago, edinmass said:

AJ......fantastic car. Buy it and I’ll sort it for you for only one dollar per hour.........

 

Somehow I feel like that will still turn out to be 100k.

 

Here is a view of 251AJS which is also a Huntington.   You can see the rear quarter treatment.   The RR club will have a good records of this car including early pictures potentially.

RollsRoycePII-Huntington-251AJS.jpg

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