edinmass Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 (edited) “Unborn calf hide” was common in Fleetwood bodied cars before they were bought by GM. Edited April 14 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobinVirginia Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 I can say this thread offers quite an education on these cars. Interesting read and thanks to the contributors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 (edited) Here's a great one that will be auctioned on Sunday. I remember seeing this car and it was a wonderful car. It was shown at Preservation at Pebble Beach. I think it was Mark Smith's car? 1933 Rolls-Royce Phantom I Riviera Town Car for Sale at Auction - Mecum Auctions Edited May 8 by motoringicons (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 It looks like a very desirable car, I hope it finds a loving home with somebody who wants it for the joy it brings rather than the value but I guess that is unavoidable. I thought Brewster had closed their doors by 1933, I have a liquidation auction catalogue for Brewster somewhere, I will have to dig it out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 On 5/8/2024 at 1:42 PM, motoringicons said: Here's a great one that will be auctioned on Sunday. I remember seeing this car and it was a wonderful car. It was shown at Preservation at Pebble Beach. I think it was Mark Smith's car? 1933 Rolls-Royce Phantom I Riviera Town Car for Sale at Auction - Mecum Auctions On 5/9/2024 at 1:37 PM, Keith Ward said: It looks like a very desirable car, I hope it finds a loving home with somebody who wants it for the joy it brings rather than the value but I guess that is unavoidable. I thought Brewster had closed their doors by 1933, I have a liquidation auction catalogue for Brewster somewhere, I will have to dig it out GZ and Keith that is quite a car. I wish I could be a player for it, wrong time for me. I have stared at this example many times as my favorite town car against which all others are measured. RR along with coachbuilder nailed it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 On 5/8/2024 at 2:42 PM, motoringicons said: Here's a great one that will be auctioned on Sunday. I remember seeing this car and it was a wonderful car. It was shown at Preservation at Pebble Beach. I think it was Mark Smith's car? 1933 Rolls-Royce Phantom I Riviera Town Car for Sale at Auction - Mecum Auctions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I watched the car sell at auction last year………hammer was just over 200k. Wonderful car…….. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milburn Drysdale Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I think we all agree it’s an incredibly cool car with great lines. My question is why is it up for sale so soon? Buyers remorse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 minute ago, edinmass said: I watched the car sell at auction last year………hammer was just over 200k. Wonderful car…….. Ed, I frequently think about cars as if they were alive and had a personality. That town car at $200,000 has the Moxie to pull onto a pristine lawn next to a car that might sell for 10 times the price, and when they’re next to each other, cause the $2 million car to wilt and defer to that Rolls-Royce. everything about its proportions looks perfect to me. let me go look under my couch cushions….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 1 minute ago, Milburn Drysdale said: I think we all agree it’s an incredibly cool car with great lines. My question is why is it up for sale so soon? Buyers remorse? Can be many reasons. It was bought as a bargain, it was bought to flip, owner moved on, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 P. Kumar has a Regent Conv Coupe for sale (with Landau arms reversed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadee Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Regent (S460MR) when sold by Bonhams in June2018 : Same car, for sale with Kumar (Gullwing) now : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 This car was owned by a forum member. I’m on my phone, but when I’m in front of my computer, I will link to his for sale ad. Since he owned the car, it has been painted, and the interior has been updated. Personally, I think the car should not have been touched. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) The red seems a little bright although the sunlight may magnify that. To remove the garnish mouldings and not replace is cruel and unjust punishment. I wonder if this was just a re-dye job (the slight asymmetric front seat pleats seem to match in before and after photos...). Still a lot of work at the offer price to again reverse.... Edited May 13 by prewarnut (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 When Peter was selling it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I remember his posts, including that thread. Thank you. It looks like the garnish moulding is two pieces on the door and one framing the dash. These could be remade but cutting out the inlay with an X-acto knife (and not cutting oneself) would take all year - for one side! I sure hope someone stored them but I suppose they are going to be "reworn" on another car out there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalbender Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 they sure muckedup the interior on that one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobinVirginia Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I know absolutely nothing about Rolls. However, this car seen at the Greenbrier here. Had an unusual history of travel. With the car being re-bodied in the 60’s. Did this particular coach builder help the car? Or was it a detrimental move? There seems to be a lot of nuances with these cars that can be confusing to folks like myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 It was almost certainly shipped as a chassis since RR of America never built bodies...in fact, RR in England didn't either at the time. That said, I've no idea what the original body was but many of these chassis have had multiple bodies on them. I'd say it would be worth more with a period body ... if it was intact. Another point is that many RR cars were limousines (a much higher percentage than you'd guess from current car shows). When they were traded in they were nearly impossible to sell so very often more "sporty" open bodies were fitted. Eventually RR of America did this themselves. They couldn't refuse to take a car that expensive in trade despite the fact that they were nearly impossible to sell. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobinVirginia Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, JV Puleo said: It was almost certainly shipped as a chassis since RR of America never built bodies...in fact, RR in England didn't either at the time. That said, I've no idea what the original body was but many of these chassis have had multiple bodies on them. I'd say it would be worth more with a period body ... if it was intact. Another point is that many RR cars were limousines (a much higher percentage than you'd guess from current car shows). When they were traded in they were nearly impossible to sell so very often more "sporty" open bodies were fitted. Eventually RR of America did this themselves. They couldn't refuse to take a car that expensive in trade despite the fact that they were nearly impossible to sell. Thank you Joe. I read the description and was a bit lost. The coach built cars are a mystery to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) One nice and one great Rolls Royce PIs SOLD at the Mecum Auction on Sunday: Edited May 14 by motoringicons (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 4 hours ago, motoringicons said: One nice and one great Rolls Royce PIs SOLD at the Mecum Auction on Sunday: The Riviera is an Ascot with enclosed passenger compartment. I would expect it to bring a lot more money than the other towncar. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 I wasn’t far out with my estimate of 65k to 85k for the 1928 Phantom 1. In the end selling for 55k (plus commission??) this is great news, the continuing devaluation of these cars will make them less attractive to the speculators and more attractive to a new generation of younger enthusiasts who buy the cars for their artistry rather than their profit potential. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Bargain time? https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/1931-rolls-royce-phantom-i-riviera-town-car-by-js-inskip-gLBvK4 Perhaps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 A very interesting car. I feel like my education on cars that have been Re-bodied , is still in the infancy stage. What will the Rolls-Royce crowd think about the body situation on this offering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I would think this example, rebodied "in-period" by J Inskip with fantastic details in exemplary condition and swapping town car for town car body - just more modernized along a PII theme, would not cause this to suffer. Man that was a long sentence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 14 hours ago, Keith Ward said: Bargain time? https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/1931-rolls-royce-phantom-i-riviera-town-car-by-js-inskip-gLBvK4 Perhaps? Done in period by a known coachbuilder (or in this case the RR of American dealer) is accepted and fine and not something that would destroy the value of a car. Be aware that towncar bodies generally lag the market over other styles. Typically conservative with a drivers compartment designed for smaller chauffeurs. This car is attractive, but chrome wires with whitewalls is a mistake. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadee Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Sold by Sotheby's in Feb 2024 : https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/bc24/lots/r0005-1930-rollsroyce-phantom-i-riviera-town-car-by-js-inskip/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 So I did 100 miles today in two different PII RR. 50 miles one way in the black car and then 50 miles back in the beige car. They are 5 chassis numbers apart and it is very interesting to compare similar cars. The problem with evaluating the driving characteristics of old cars in general is that you never know the sort level of the car you are driving. A bad experience might just be that particular car and not all. Love to get Keith's feedback to see what he agrees on. After a bunch of miles I've come to the following observations: 1. Be in 2nd gear by 5mph, 3rd by 12mph and then 4th by 20/22 mph. Pause in neutral to allow the clutch brake to do its thing and you will have clean shifts. A PII will pull easily from 10 mph up to 80 in 4th gear. 2. Lots of torque, You can climb decent grades in 4th gear, although steep grades require 40 mph plus to be in the power band. 3. Brakes are boosted by a servo unit on the transmission. They work well for stopping such big cars. 4. You can cruise comfortably at 50 mph. RR talks about much higher maintained speeds but at 100K to do an engine I'm not inclined to push it. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, alsancle said: So I did 100 miles today in two different PII RR. 50 miles one way in the black car and then 50 miles back in the beige car. They are 5 chassis numbers apart and it is very interesting to compare similar cars. The problem with evaluating the driving characteristics of old cars in general is that you never know the sort level of the car you are driving. A bad experience might just be that particular car and not all. Love to get Keith's feedback to see what he agrees on. After a bunch of miles I've come to the following observations: 1. Be in 2nd gear by 5mph, 3rd by 12mph and then 4th by 20/22 mph. Pause in neutral to allow the clutch brake to do its thing and you will have clean shifts. A PII will pull easily from 10 mph up to 80 in 4th gear. 2. Lots of torque, You can climb decent grades in 4th gear, although steep grades require 40 mph plus to be in the power band. 3. Brakes are boosted by a servo unit on the transmission. They work well for stopping such big cars. 4. You can cruise comfortably at 50 mph. RR talks about much higher maintained speeds but at 100K to do an engine I'm not inclined to push it. Great stuff! I want one! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I’m a bigger fan of the P1’s……..although the PII is a better driver. Here is a photo of a PII going south along the Sargasso Sea. This PII sold new in 1933 for 27,800 dollars. Not a entry level car during the depression! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 12 hours ago, alsancle said: Love to get Keith's feedback to see what he agrees on. After a bunch of miles I've come to the following observations: 1. Be in 2nd gear by 5mph, 3rd by 12mph and then 4th by 20/22 mph. Pause in neutral to allow the clutch brake to do its thing and you will have clean shifts. A PII will pull easily from 10 mph up to 80 in 4th gear. 2. Lots of torque, You can climb decent grades in 4th gear, although steep grades require 40 mph plus to be in the power band. 3. Brakes are boosted by a servo unit on the transmission. They work well for stopping such big cars. 4. You can cruise comfortably at 50 mph. RR talks about much higher maintained speeds but at 100K to do an engine I'm not inclined to push it. Al, I totally agree with your gear changing speeds these are a good all round guide. In a warm car from a standing start on a level road and with the mixture 2 clicks rich, its possible to start in second, 3rd at 10 and 4th at 18 so long as your clutch is strong. We don’t have hills in the UK midlands like you have in the US but near me I use the Stonleigh Hill to put cars through their paces. Its only 1/4 mile long so no worries about getting into trouble, there’s usually a police car posted at the top waiting for cars exceeding the 30 speed limit so I have to be careful. Here’s a short video of me taking 215AMS up in 4th starting on the bridge at about 11mph. It went up the hill as easily as a modern auto-shift, amazing power at such low revs. (the speed is displayed at the bottom right) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 42 minutes ago, Keith Ward said: Al, I totally agree with your gear changing speeds these are a good all round guide. In a warm car from a standing start on a level road and with the mixture 2 clicks rich, its possible to start in second, 3rd at 10 and 4th at 18 so long as your clutch is strong. We don’t have hills in the UK midlands like you have in the US but near me I use the Stonleigh Hill to put cars through their paces. Its only 1/4 mile long so no worries about getting into trouble, there’s usually a police car posted at the top waiting for cars exceeding the 30 speed limit so I have to be careful. Here’s a short video of me taking 215AMS up in 4th starting on the bridge at about 11mph. It went up the hill as easily as a modern auto-shift, amazing power at such low revs. (the speed is displayed at the bottom right) Great video Keith. I've been running the mixture dead center and I'm going to try running as you say once the car is warm. I hit a mile long incline around 10% at 30 mph and was able to get to 50 by the end. I was impressed by that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 On 6/7/2024 at 11:34 AM, alsancle said: This car is attractive, but chrome wires with whitewalls is a mistake. Very true, especially here in the UK, it would probably have achieved another £10k without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 4 hours ago, alsancle said: Great video Keith. I've been running the mixture dead center and I'm going to try running as you say once the car is warm. I hit a mile long incline around 10% at 30 mph and was able to get to 50 by the end. I was impressed by that. Thats good work Al, your car is well tuned, to be honest, when these cars were designed, efficiency wasn’t a constraint on the engineers, nobody cared. As long as the fuel burned without soot or too much heat then it was good, the early Phantom 2s (and I think all of the AJS/AMS chassis) were 5:1 compression ratio. I’ve said it before but from an automotive design point of view they are basically posh tractors, nothing complex but just excellent engineering theory and practice applied to the ICE. As long as they burn clean, pull well and run quiet, thats about as much demand we should make of them. I’m sure yours would cruise at 60 without too much problem because of the exceptionally well designed mechanics, and assuming good care, a cylinder head corrosion problem is more likely than a mechanical failure. And if proper application of inhibitor is practiced, there is no reason why the corrosion can’t be stopped in its tracks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldPlayboy Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) On 5/15/2023 at 4:53 PM, alsancle said: Gooding has this Special Newmark consigned for Pebble. On my list of pure awesomeness. https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1932-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-special-newmarket-permanent-sedan I bid $400k on this car at Pebble Beach. I was outbid at $410k but the bid did not satisfy the reserve. About 15 minutes later I was asked by a Goodings' representative if I would be interested in buying it at $400k since the $410k bidder was no longer interested. Neither was I. I had my sights on a 1926 Springfield Playboy Silver Ghost (which I ultimately bought at the Sotheby's auction). But this car could have been bought for $400k plus the auction premium in 2023. Edited June 12 by SpringfieldPlayboy (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 i’ve never been to this auction, but it seems like there’s always interesting stuff being sold at it. This is a fabulous looking car. Has anybody seen it or does anybody have any knowledgeable commentary on it? I’m trying to think if I’ve seen other larger American platforms with this coach builder and nothings jumping to mind. https://auction.owlshead.org/listing/1928-rolls-royce-phantom-locke-and-company-bodied-convertible-phaeton/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 John: Locke built series custom body styles to both Lincoln and Chrysler: roadsters, sport phaetons, tourings, convertible sedans. For 1929, they built this convertible sedan style with the wide B-pillar separation between the doors on the Imperial L chassis. A scaled version appeared on the Chrysler Series 75 and even a few were supplied to Graham-Paige for 1931. Door hinging varies by application, generally at the forward edge, though I'm sure they'd accommodate the customer's preference. The wide B-pillar convertible sedan style was superseded by those that concealed that feature by Dietrich, LeBaron and production body makers. The company had some first-class design talent on staff at various times. Locke & Coompany, Justus Vinton Locke. Locke-Bodied, Fleischmann, Rochester, New York City, Lincoln Motor Car - CoachBuilt.com Steve 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 26 Author Share Posted August 26 The Bohman and Schwartz PII Body that got moved to a PI is back. 34K ask now. It sat much lower on the PII chassis. https://www.ebay.com/itm/387326569321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 17 minutes ago, alsancle said: The Bohman and Schwartz PII Body that got moved to a PI is back. 34K ask now. It sat much lower on the PII chassis. https://www.ebay.com/itm/387326569321 I noticed it was back up on Hemmings a couple of days ago at 39.5K. Not sure what the pathway forward might be for that car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now