1953 Windsor Deluxe Brakes Dragging

[keithb7]

Hi folks, my 1953 Windsor Deluxe is showing signs of the brakes dragging. The rear brake lamps will stay on when this occurs. The brake light switch is up under the floorboards, about under the back seat passenger foot area.  Not too far from the master cylinder. This leads me to assume that the brake pressure is being held up at the master cylinder. Maybe the small relief port in it? If the wheel cylinders were partially seizing, instead of the master cylinder, would the brake light go out when the foot pedal is released? I am planning to do some more testing.  Maybe crack open a brake line fitting at the master cylinder, with the car on stands and see if the brakes release. Will that help me determine where the problem area is? 

 

Part of my problem is I do not have a puller yet to get the rear drums off.  So getting access to the rear wheel cylinders is an issue for me. I do need to order a puller.  I was hoping to find something local, and save some money. They are not cheap. Thanks for any tips of how I can determine exactly what is hanging up where. With the brake light staying on, after parking and shutting off the car,  that leads me to the master cylinder. After about 15 mins the hydraulic pressure backs off and the brake lights go out. Then you can easily push/roll the car.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Spinneyhill]

If the car has sat for a while and not been driven much, you could have stuck wheel cylinders, esp. if the pistons are aluminium in stainless or brass sleeved cylinders. It happens in steel cylinders too. It is galvanic corrosion: moisture in the fluid and atmosphere + aluminium (top of galvanic series) + brass or SS or steel = galvanic cell. The aluminium corrosion products cause the piston to stick. It needs a clean out. If the fluid is more than about 3 years old it needs changing too. All this assumes DOT 3 or 4 fluid, of course.

 

To test, use the adjuster to back off the brakes then test with the pedal a few times. If the brakes stay on or drag, that is probably the problem. Hydraulic force is larger than spring retraction force.

 

Other possibilities include dirt in or collapsed-inside flexible brake line(s) and squashed metal brake line.

 

I have had this problem from time to time. Last time, I also cleaned the master cylinder but it was spotless. It is always the wheel cylinders (mine are brass sleeved).

[keithb7]

Thanks Spinnyhill. I won't diasgree with you. It all makes sense. Brake fluid naturally absorbs moisture. Even from humidity in the air. 

 

Lately I have noticed the dragging is letting up a little. Maybe the more we use the car, corrosion is displacing. 

 

I guess I better order a puller so I can get the rear drums off. Get in the wheel cylinders and hone them a little. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Sounds to me more like a master cylinder not releasing as you first suggest. (brake lights staying on) I will bet that it is full of rust and dirt.

Edited July 11, 2017 by JACK M (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

If the brake lights are staying on it is definitely the master cylinder. There should be a half inch to an inch of free play at the brake pedal. This is adjusted by the pedal rod under the floor. The master cylinder must retract completely to uncover the relief port which allows the fluid to go back into the reservoir. So either the piston is not retracting all the way or the port is plugged up, probably the adjustment is to blame or maybe you need a spring to lift the brake pedal.

[Reg Evans]

44 minutes ago, JACK M said:

Sounds to me more like a master cylinder not releasing as you first suggest. (brake lights staying on) I will bet that it is full of rust and dirt.

This is exactly what was happening to my 56 new Yorker.  After a few miles of driving the brakes and brake lights would stay on for a long time.  A new master cylinder cured the problem because the old one was gummed up inside.

[skyler]

Keith, be sure to get a good puller as these drums can be a bear to get off. this site must have some posts on this. also, do not lubricate the tapered shaft the drum fits on when re-installing, as the friction fit of the drum to the shaft is what drives the rear wheels. i am sure there is a torque value for that castle nut that holds it on. feel free to email me.    dennis

[c49er]

The minimum torque on the 1-1/4" rear axle shaft nut is 142  FT. LBS.....minimum!

[Rusty_OToole]

Most auto parts store rent pullers and other tools, or there are tool rental places. You need a big heavy duty puller. The hubs are supposed to wedge tight onto the shaft to keep them from spinning and after 50 years they grow together. There are several threads on this, all ended in success.

 

You want to take the hub nut off and turn it around, and screw it back on the shaft flush with the end. This protects the threads and prevents mushrooming the shaft. It also prevents the hub from flying across the shop like a guided missile.Carefully bolt on the puller, be sure it is pulling straight and wail on it with a big hammer. If it won't come loose leave it overnight and wail on it some more.

[Spinneyhill]

Just remember that when you are hitting the puller on the end of the axle with the big hammer the bearings are reacting the force exerted. So bigger hits = more chance of damaging the bearings.

 

Lubricate the puller central thread. Tighten it with a big spanner. Wait. Tighten it some more. Wait. Tighten it from time to time. Tap from time to time. Patience will prevail. Mine sometimes takes three days.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[keithb7]

I ordered a new big heavy duty puller. I appeciate the tips folks. I will plan to start pulling the drums 3-4 days before I plan to actually work on the rear brakes. Tightening and pulling the drums daily in stages. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[c49er]

I use a quality 1/2" impact gun @ about 160 LBS air pressure and a 1/2" air hose.

I use 1-1/8" socket over the end of the puller screw and zip the drums right off. I do it for a living...working on old Mopars.

Leave the 1-1/4" nut on loose though so the drum doesn't land on you foot though!

[Reg Evans]

7 hours ago, c49er said:

I use a quality 1/2" impact gun @ about 160 LBS air pressure and a 1/2" air hose.

I use 1-1/8" socket over the end of the puller screw and zip the drums right off. I do it for a living...working on old Mopars.

Leave the 1-1/4" nut on loose though so the drum doesn't land on you foot though!

I use my impact gun too but have never had a drum drop or fly off even if very stubborn.

Maybe I've been very lucky.

[c49er]

I've had some late 50's/early 60's  Chrysler Imperials and a 35 CW Airflow that the drums come loose with a sudden dangerous bang and would have landed on the shop floor.

I usually just grab the drum and backing plate with my left hand to prevent the drum from popping off the tapered axles as I have done this so many times over the years.

If you have one pop off onto the floor you will never forget it.