trimacar

Slotless screwdriver needed...anyone have one?

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To tell you the truth if I get a slotted screw in anything I through them out and replace it with a Robertson screw. I will never understand why people will use a slotted screw being how it is ancient technology. Unless you are restoring an antique car to factory specifications and  then slotted screws fits right in to this category.

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Joe,

 

I either just fixed your post or I screwed up another joke. You seem to have posted 7 identical responses. I eliminated 6 of them. Hope I did not spoil another joke.

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You guys never seen hillbilly tamper-proof screws before . The slots are only for removing screws . Hammer baby !

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Kaiser is right on with this - you'll need to get a special spiral hammer to drive them in.  No screwdriver required.

Terry

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1 hour ago, Joe in Canada said:

To tell you the truth if I get a slotted screw in anything I through them out and replace it with a Robertson screw. I will never understand why people will use a slotted screw being how it is ancient technology. Unless you are restoring an antique car to factory specifications and  then slotted screws fits right in to this category.

Yes, slotted screws in American cars up until 1937 or so, then Cadillac started using Mr. Phillips creation.  Robertson screws on any pre-WWII car would just look silly.  They're great on my deck screws, though.

 

"Ancient technology" seems, these days, to refer to anything over a few months old.  The way things were done was not bad technology, but rather what was correct at the time.  There are oh so many things that are discussed in todays world, without an understanding and framework of both technology and moral standards of the time.  These things are then condemned and criticized, with no historical viewpoint, but rather based on today's standards.  "History is more or less bunk", Henry Ford said, then proceeded to buy historical buildings and artifacts to preserve that "bunk"  for the future....

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35 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

Joe,

 

I either just fixed your post or I screwed up another joke. You seem to have posted 7 identical responses. I eliminated 6 of them. Hope I did not spoil another joke.

For some reason when I hit Submit it did not seem to do it so  guess  tried seven times but guess what. Then the wife wanted something done and I never checked. Sorry about that.

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It's time to screw Joe's laptop lid closed with four or five of these screws

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Robertson screws were actually used on Model A Fords in Canada until Henry Ford tried to control the Robertson screw company. After things fell apart Henry would not use the Robertson screw in the US or Canada either costing him an extra $2.60 per car at the Ford Windsor plant. I guess he was set in his ways.

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This reminds me of an old "Scots" Uncle.  He always maintains that the proper way was to drive a screw in with a hammer.  "The slot is for takin em out ye wee barin".  My computer doesn't type brogue, sorry.

Edited by Tinindian (see edit history)

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You need a left handed screw driver. I think Lowes has them. Usually next to the board stretchers and muffler bearings.

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Hey you guys. I do have the perfect tool for this type of screw. It is called a hack saw. Makes a perfect slot for a regular screw driver!

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and don't forget Whitworth.

 

You can make a slotted head screw out of just about anything, just need a hacksaw or a nail file. Philips or Torx is a bit more difficult (need an offset drill). Phillips was the result of mechanical assembly needing to just press and screw.

 

At least half of my "inventions" were just reuse of techniques that either needed non-existant technology or had been outmoded. Was once a part of Bruce's Dead Media Project and learned quite a bit.

 

ps a screw also requires threads. Think the device in the original photo just had circular flanges.

Edited by padgett (see edit history)

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On 7/6/2017 at 7:50 PM, Joe in Canada said:

Robertson screws were actually used on Model A Fords in Canada until Henry Ford tried to control the Robertson screw company...

 

Also used in the later Canadian-built Model Ts. Photo is the terminal block in my '26 Touring. 

 

I have sent care packages of Robertson screws to T owners in Australia (Ts for all countries in the British Empire were assembled in Canada).

 

26T Canadian Robertson screws.jpg

Edited by Chris Bamford (see edit history)

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That is not a screw..it is a threaded nail !

 

Although I like to promote all things Canadian..the Robertson has been surpassed by the "star" (for construction)

 

Cheers,Pat

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I guess the "Robertson" is a Canadian Phillips.  I buy Canadian square drive screws and find them much better than Phillips.  Never round one out or wear out the square drive bit.  (Not correct on any vehicles that I know of, but great for other projects)

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That looks like two different screw heads, one square and one with points. Which is the Robertson ? The square drive ?

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35 minutes ago, padgett said:

That looks like two different screw heads, one square and one with points. Which is the Robertson ? The square drive ?

They are all #2 Robertson square drive. This size screwdriver typically has a red handle. The smaller #1 driver is green, #3 is black. 

 

The screw with the slightly bigger head is a #10 size screw, the others are #8 size screws. It is a trick of the photo that some look like pointed drives -- none, in fact, are. The bottom of the square hole is not flat  (for manufacturing, not for function) which adds to the illusion. 

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That screw does not look to be self-drilling;  if so it would need a pilot hole unless used on fairly soft material.   What I would look for or make would be something on the principal of those eccentric roller type stud removers, with roller ends protruding slightly beyond the end of the barrel that contains them.  That might be fine to secure your matting as shown.  Taking them out would be difficult without damaging the head circumference by tight end-grip of what I think you call "vyce grips", but which here in Australia are always referred to as   "--gger-nuts",(because that is what they do).

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OK, thanks for all the responses, many of which were very educational, such as on the Robertson square drive screw.  I either didn't know, or had forgotten, that they were invented quite a while ago. 

 

Just to be clear to everyone, I was joking when I said I bought boxes of the screw first pictured.  This was a defect, found in a box of otherwise normal slotted screws, and I just thought I'd have some fun with it.

 

Slotted screws are becoming rarer by the day.  Slotless (or driven) screws are out there, but this isn't one of them!  Or rather, it is one, but only by accident......

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16 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

I guess the "Robertson" is a Canadian Phillips.  I buy Canadian square drive screws and find them much better than Phillips.  Never round one out or wear out the square drive bit.  (Not correct on any vehicles that I know of, but great for other projects)

 

What few people don't realize is that's because the Phillips screws were designed to slip.

 

About 25 years ago, while doing research on a 31 car that someone insisted came with Phillips head trim screws, I called the Phillips Screw Company.  In a conversation with the then Vice President of the company, he said the Phillips screw was invented to "cam out" to prevent the problem of over tightening in assembly line work.

 

That's why when you force a stuck Phillips screw, the screw driver is forced up and out (called "cam-out" by the company). That way, the screws would not crack wood from over tightening. He also said that the first use was in Caddy production. And it's that cam-out ability why the Phillips screws gained more acceptance in mass production then the much earlier designed Roberson screws.

 

But that built-in slippage became a problem with the increasing use of modern "deck screws" in home building. To counter that slippage tendency  the Phillips screw company designed the Phillips 2 special drivers  with tiny ridges in the tip that grip down inside the screw slot. When force is applied the ridges bite into the screw increasing the holding power. The VP sent me some of those new Phillips 2 bits to test. I used them to drive 2-1/2 deck screws when I built the radiant heat, laminated wood floor of the wood working room of my shop. Using a 3/8 butterfly impact gun and one of those special Phillips bits, it drove about 2500 deck screws and never slipped.

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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Pozdriv was developed to eliminate the slip of Phillips, which as I understand it was never adopted in Europe.  There was a time the DIY would curse a Phillips (cross recess) and end up putting a slot in it.  Years ago finding a good Phillips screw driver was difficult and if the screw was at least a bit stubborn, either the screw wore out or the driver worn out, so the slot went in and the screw was replaced with a slotted one.  Now slotted ones are usually tossed and can have damaged slots. 

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That's why when you force a stuck Phillips screw, the screw driver is forced up and out (called "cam-out" by the company). That way, the screws would not crack wood from over tightening. He also said that the first use was in Caddy production. And it's that cam-out ability why the Phillips screws gained more acceptance in mass production then the much earlier designed Roberson screws.

 

Do you know what year Cadillac used the Phillips screws?  I believe Chevrolet used them in 1937.

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On 7/9/2017 at 6:46 AM, trimacar said:

Just to be clear to everyone, I was joking when I said I bought boxes of the screw first pictured.  This was a defect, found in a box of otherwise normal slotted screws, and I just thought I'd have some fun with it.

 

That is the part I found funniest, the need to explain it. Wanna have more fun? Show someone a picture of a car, a person, a house; any subject. Then listen to them completely ignore the subject and ask you about everything in the background. It is a hoot once you become aware of it.

 

Now, what made me think of that.

Bernie

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Cadillac first used Phillips screws in 1937, soon after other manufacturers started using them...

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