Radiator flush on my 1923 Buick

[Jim Milewski]

Am contemplating a cooling system flush using a product made by Evapo - Rust called Thermo-cure - has anyone used this product?

[Hubert_25-25]

I put a fair amount of "simple green" (maybe 1/2 quart) in the radiator system in the 1922 Dodge and the rest water.   I drove it around for a few days.  A lot of grease ends up in the water jacket and radiator from greasing the water pump.  The stuff was very brown (looked like chocolate milk) when I finally drained and flushed it out.  Probably wouldn't hurt to do this a few times until it is all clean when you go to drain it.  I like the idea of the evapo rust too if that helps dissolve some of the rust particles that I have seen lodged in some of the cooling tubes on an old radiator that I have.

[Brian_Heil]

I worry about how caustic any of those flush products out there are and the next thing you are doing is a radiator re-core as it attacks what little solder you may have and it opens up a bunch of leaks.

 

Try a back flush with a garden hose on the lower (outlet) connection and nothing on the top (hose and cap removed) and see what crud you get out of it.

 

You can actually do a before and after test.  Put your hand over the lower outlet and fill the radiator to the top (no hose at top, no cap) then remove hand and see how fast the water rushes (or trickles) out to give you and idea of how plugged it might be then do the back flush (above) and try this test again and see if you see any change.

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

I fixed the overheating problem in my truck with 4 gallons of plain bleach from the $ store.  Ran it around one day with just bleach in the cooling system and at the end of the day drained it an flushed it real well and no more problem.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Brian, the Evapo-Rust will not harm the solder or radiator material in any way.  I have used this stuff and it WORKS.  I know that the radiator in Jim's '23 was in great condition when I shipped it back to him.  I am just hoping that the crud in the water jacket hasn't choked the radiator core.  At any rate, if they will use the Evapo-Rust according to the directions, it should clean up the cooling system.  I remember Jim had heating problems with the car back in 2006 at the Rochester, Minnesota meet.  Jim, I am bringing what I have left of that 5-gallon pail of ER for you guys to use.  This will be more than enough for 3 to 4 applications and you should have a cool running engine after

the treatments.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[dibarlaw]

I went with Terrys suggestion on EvapoRust with my 1937 after it overheated badly on our aborted trip to Springfield. I drained the system filled with ER ran it till hot 3 times over a period of one week. What came out was coal black. What settled in the 10 gallon tub was 2 handfuls of scale and crud. Unfortunately the radiator was already packed solid with what left the block prior to this. I did do a re-core. 2 years latter things are still clean. Drove to Allentown last year in 95 degree temps with stop and go traffic. Temp gage did not go above 185 deg. I did install a GANO filter so as not to have anything get back into that new $$ core. I cleaned the filter twice since and always get a few bits of  crud.

Edited June 29, 2017 by dibarlaw (see edit history)

[Brian_Heil]

The foot of the wife's panty hose retained by the hose and clamp in the upper hose will collect gunk too and for 'free'.

[Brian_Heil]

13 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said:

Brian, the Evapo-Rust will not harm the solder or radiator material in any way.  I have used this stuff and it WORKS.  I know that the radiator in Jim's '23 was in great condition when I shipped it back to him.  I am just hoping that the crud in the water jacket hasn't choked the radiator core.  At any rate, if they will use the Evapo-Rust according to the directions, it should clean up the cooling system.  I remember Jim had heating problems with the car back in 2006 at the Rochester, Minnesota meet.  Jim, I am bringing what I have left of that 5-gallon pail of ER for you guys to use.  This will be more than enough for 3 to 4 applications and you should have a cool running engine after

the treatments.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

I will stick with quality 50/50 coolant changed on a regular basis that has corrosion inhibitors and plain water for back flushing.

 

What I thought you were going to tell me is Marvel Mystery Oil will fix this issue too.

 

Now, I have seen a radiator bypassed with a length of hose and these heavy cleaners used to 'boil' the block out in-vehicle, being careful not to overheat the engine and also flushing the block and hoses when done and using the collector sock at the same time.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

The most important thing that I have learned on these forums is this - NEVER, EVER UNDERESTIMATE Brian Heil!  Brian, I just do not understand why I didn't think of the Marvel Mystery Oil fix.  That stuff will cure baldness, whooping cough, and a whole host of medical and mechanical maladies.  (I'm on a roll here)  Dr. Heil has it down right about the MMO.  IF that had been used, Jim's overheating problem would have been history.  I am so glad that you have seen the error of your ways and now can officially endorse MMO as the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Good on ya son!

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

[Marty Roth]

My '37 Roadmaster will run hot if caught in slow traffic, or when just idling. 

 

I believe that crud has packed up toward the rearmost cylinders during the car's earlier life.

 

Will flushing with Sal Soda, Sodium Carbonate (not Bi-Carb), or with straight Distilled White Vinegar harm the seal on my water pump?

[Guest]

Marty Roth, the only correct and foolproof way to clean out the water passages is to knock the core plugs and rod out the water jacket physically.   Chemicals and/or flushing might have worked every few years from when the car was new and it had fresh antifreeze in it all the time.   Once the water jacket has sludge in it the only solution is physical removal.

It's a dirty miserable job but provided you use antifreeze that you change every two or three years and back flush the engine every time you put new antifreeze in you should never have to do it a second time.  An inline filter kit would protect your rad.

Scott Drake ACC-GANO-8 - Scott Drake Radiator and Heater Core Coolant Filters

 

 

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I may be stepping in a pile of bull pooh here, but so be it.  I am of the belief that the rear cylinder area of the Buick engine being "plugged" will not cause coolant overheating.  It will cause the back cylinder to not cool as well as it should. This should just cause the coolant to be forced between the other cylinders.   In my view, this should put LESS heat into the coolant. In other words, poor circulation should not cause the overheating [ less cooling ] of the coolant coming from the radiator. The coolant temp sending unit is in the head at about where the coolant changes direction and starts it's return to the front of the engine.  Marty, I think in your case, one would need to know the temp at the radiator inlet and outlet and observe the difference..  If it stays cool while moving, the coolant must be doing its job and the radiator is doing its job.  Getting hot at slow speed/idle would indicate to me poor air flow through the radiator under these conditions.

 

  Ben

[Marty Roth]

Thanks Tinindian and Ben,

 

I may have time to get the '37 out next week and will check various locations with the lazer pyro gun for comparison.

 

That being said, I would still appreciate any thoughts per flushing with Sal Soda, Sodium Carbonate (not Bi-Carb), or with straight Distilled White Vinegar, all of which helped on the '15 Hudson. Of course on that car we had removed the freeze plugs and dug out lots of rust. 

 

If I simply use any and all of the above flushes, would any of them harm the seal on my water pump or other parts of the cooling system?

[FLYER15015]

Marty,

There is another thread outlining "overheating" that I posted my fix in.

I used 3 gallons of Evap-olRust and drove the car for 3 days. many heat / cool cycles.

It cleaned so well that I had to replace all 3 frost plugs in the block.

 

My "fix" however was to pull the bypass valve housing (below the thermostat) and install a frost plug, then drill a 1/4' hole in the center.

This prevents the flow coming from the bottom of the radiator from overpowering the flow coming out of the head.

THAT SOLVED MY PROBLEM.............

 

Mike in Colorado

[BuicksBuicks]

I was not able to drive my 37 Special for more than six miles without overheating. Even after just five miles the engine would boil violently when the engine was shut off.

 

Yesterday I used Evapo-rust and ran the engine at high idle for two hours; it didn't overheat. After draining the black crud from the radiator and block and filling with water, I took it for a test drive. It was a drive up all of the hills I could find locally; I sat in traffic; nothing I could do would make the engine temp even rise above the mark well be!ow the 180 degree point. In other words, the Evapo-rust WORKS!!!  I'm now confident that I can take the Buick out for long rides without overheating.

 

I have no connection whatsoever to the makers of Evapo-rust.

[Marty Roth]

Buicks Buicks,

 

Did you use straight Evapo-rust, or did you dilute it?

[dibarlaw]

Marty:

I used mine full strength. Filtered it, and used it to clean my other car.

Larry

[Marty Roth]

1 hour ago, dibarlaw said:

Marty:

I used mine full strength. Filtered it, and used it to clean my other car.

Larry

 

Thanks Larry - sounds like I need 17 Quarts (or could probably get by with 16 Qt (4 gallons).

 

After filtering, would you run it through the same car a second time to get a more thorough job?

 

Any suggestions on where to get the best price? This stuff is expensive.

 

Also, any thoughts on using distilled white vinegar?

[dibarlaw]

According to the directions it can be filtered and reused several times to the same effect.

I have never tried to use the vinegar flushes.

[Marty Roth]

Has anyone used straight DISTILLED WHITE VINEGAR as a flush?

 

Will it harm the water pump seal on our 1937 Roadmaster?

[ArticiferTom]

Do a search under, What is it a Zoo Tool ? . I used it to back flush my radiator . Helped ,but fix came when I removed and filled radiator with CLR calcium ,lime rust remover for 8hrs. and a flex brush over top of coils . This radiator was left with fluid in the dried , leaving calcium deposits that blocked tubes .

[Larry Schramm]

I just filled up my truck that I had an ongoing overheating problem with just household bleach. Bought it at the $1.00 store for $1.00/gallon.

 

 Ran it on and off maybe 6 cycles on a hot day and then drained and flushed it real good. 

 

Never had another overheating problem.

[Marty Roth]

36 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

I just filled up my truck that I had an ongoing overheating problem with just household bleach. Bought it at the $1.00 store for $1.00/gallon.

 

 Ran it on and off maybe 6 cycles on a hot day and then drained and flushed it real good. 

 

Never had another overheating problem.

 

Larry,

 

Does this truck have a water p[ump?

and if so, would the bleach have any effect on the packing or modern seals?

wondering about bleach, or distilled white vinegar, or Evapo-rust in my '37 80C ?

[Gary W]

On 7/6/2017 at 0:08 PM, FLYER15015 said:

 

My "fix" however was to pull the bypass valve housing (below the thermostat) and install a frost plug, then drill a 1/4' hole in the center.

This prevents the flow coming from the bottom of the radiator from overpowering the flow coming out of the head.

THAT SOLVED MY PROBLEM.............

 

Mike in Colorado

 

 

Hello Mike!

I have a question regarding your "fix".  

 

I got my '37 with a brass plug installed (like yours) where the spring loaded bypass valve should be.  There is no hole drilled through it.  It's just a solid frost plug.  

BUT... The previous owner removed the thermostat completely.  So the water circulation runs constantly through the radiator from start-up, the way it would circulate when the car is fully warmed up.

 

I was thinking I would leave the brass frost plug intact, and simply drill a couple of smaller holes in the thermostat flange so the water could circulate through the block during warm-up, and flow through the radiator a bit restricted until the thermostat fully opened.

 

Does my approach sound reasonable?

 

 

With the frost plug installed in place of the spring loaded valve, and no thermostat, the water circulates constantly from the moment the engine is started.

My thought was leave the frost plug intact and drill a few smaller holes in the thermostat flange.  

I think this would allow water to circulate slowly until the thermostat fully opened and the full flow passed though the radiator.

 

 

 

[Spinneyhill]

Why do you want water circulating when the engine is cold? Warmup will take longer and there will be more wear.

 

Set it up as designed. Put the thermostat in and fix the valve?

 

Citric acid is a chelating agent for iron oxide. I doubt it would hurt any seals. See post 15 in this topic.

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

52 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Why do you want water circulating when the engine is cold? Warmup will take longer and there will be more wear.

 

Set it up as designed. Put the thermostat in and fix the valve?

 

Citric acid is a chelating agent for iron oxide. I doubt it would hurt any seals. See post 15 in this topic.

 

 

The reason to drill a SMALL hole in the thermostat is to allow a small amount of coolant pass by the thermal actuator for the thermostat.  If there is no coolant flow in some systems the thermostat will not open when they should.

 

The small hole is very typical on many thermostats.

[Larry Schramm]

14 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

 

Larry,

 

Does this truck have a water p[ump?

and if so, would the bleach have any effect on the packing or modern seals?

wondering about bleach, or distilled white vinegar, or Evapo-rust in my '37 80C ?

 

Marty,

 

The truck has a water pump.  It does have modern lip seals in the water pump, but.......they the seals are top shelf material and were about $35.00 each and the pump has four seals.  Two on each side of the pump.  They were not the $2.00 seals that would fit. The seals that I put in the pump are made of material that according to the data sheet would be impervious to about everything.

 

Best answer that I can give you.