Cristian Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 Dear all, My name is Cristian and I have recently bought a 1937 Studebaker Dictator Coupe since I could not simply stay away from the beautiful lines of this car - nothing more than love a first sight . I do not have a lot of information on this particular car's history. I have ordered a "Production Order Report" from the Studebaker National Museum (https://www.studebakermuseum.org/store/studebaker-production-orders/Production-Order-1936-1959) which is currently being processed in order to gather as much information as possible on the car. However, I have to mention that I bought the car from UK and from my discussions with the past owner it seems the car was imported from US into UK during the 1980's. One thing that is puzzling me is the fact that the numbers on the engine are the following (as shown in the attached pictures which I hope to have uploaded correctly): Engine number (from what i could read seems to be): D.180789 There are the following lines also mentioned on the block (as shown in the pictures): - on top of the block: first line: I89028 ' 3 (or 8) and second line: 2 - on the bottom of the block: first line 1238; second line: 189196 - 1; and third line: G 4 12 - engine number: D180789 (not sure about the last digit). The weird thing is that when checking the UK Registration certificate of the car such certificate mentions a different engine number, namely D.93770 which when checking the website of Studebaker Antique Club (http://www.theantiquestudebakerclub.com/indentifycarsall/dataasheet1934thru1946.htm) this particular number D.93770 seems to correspond to a 1936 Studebaker engine. Now, I wanted to ask you with there is any way to decode the numbers mentioned on the engine block (which hopefully I got them right) so that to confirm that these relate to a Studebaker Dictator engine (from 1937 hopefully) or on the contrary. I would also like to mention that the chassis number of the car is 5570064 and I have seen the tag nailed to the frame mentioning this number (unfortunately I forget to take a picture as this was in line with the UK registration papers). There is also another label in the engine bay indicating on the first 37 AQ-5 and the line below 870 as shown in the photos. Can you (anyone) shade some light on the engine and the car as a whole based on the numbers above - i am especially interested if they make sense for you and match or not? Thank you for all your help, Cristian
studeboy Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 The firewall tag is for the body number. It shows that this is a 1937 Dictator Q body style the 870th of this body style to be manufactured in the 1937 model year.
Spinneyhill Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) According to the parts book, 1937 engine numbers started at D112601 with no differentiation between 5A (conventional front axle) and 6A (planar suspension). So if that first letter is a "D" you have a 1937 engine. 5A serial numbers for cars made in South Bend started with 5536001 so your 5570064 appears to be a 5A from South Bend. 1938 serial numbers started with 5,582,001 from South Bend. A Q-5 body is a "Regular" coupe body less rumble seat with the spare on the rear or a "Deluxe" with the spare in the seat compartment, also less rumble seat (not sure how to interpret the entry in the chassis parts book). I don't know what the "A" stands for in AQ-5. The body parts book says the spare was on the rear only. G 4 12 is the casting date of the block. I don't know when the years started, but as G is the 7th letter, I would be willing to bet it was cast on 12 Apr 1937. 189195 is a casting number. It is not the part number of the block, which is 189680. 189195 does not appear in the parts book, but 189196 does (in the shock absorber group). 189028 is also a casting number; the part number of the 1937 head is 189328 (std, CI) or 189662 (Al., High Compression). BTW, xclnt choice of vehicle! Edited June 24, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
M29C3284 Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 Are you sure that the casting date letter is G and not Q? Looking at the picture, it looks to me like Q. If it is Q then your engine block is cast, as Spinneyhill said, 12 April 1937. Studebaker started, to my knowledge, with the casting letters in 1921. So 1921 would be A, and following the alphabet G would be 1927 and Q is 1937. The Champion engine did not see the light of day before 1936, so your casting letter must be P or later. I have to M29C Weasel engines from 1944 that have casting year letter X, a 1933 Rockne engine with letter M, two 1932 Commander engines with letter L and a 1931 President engine with letter K. And also an M5 engine from 1947 that has 47 as the casting year code. So I guess the letter codes must have ended when they ran out of letters in 1946.
Spinneyhill Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 11 hours ago, M29C3284 said: Are you sure that the casting date letter is G and not Q? Looking at the picture, it looks to me like Q. If it is Q then your engine block is cast, as Spinneyhill said, 12 April 1937. Studebaker started, to my knowledge, with the casting letters in 1921. I think you are right. It is a Q. Thank you for the start of the casting letter sequence. Very useful.
Cristian Posted June 25, 2017 Author Posted June 25, 2017 Thanks a lot guys for your tremendous help. You are right indeed. I have looked better and I have also taken better pictures and it is indeed a Q as the casting date. Further to your input and my review of the letters it is seems the following numbers are inserted on the engine block: - on top of the engine block: 189328 followed by the date: Q 4 12; - on the bottom of the engine block: > first line: 1236 (I am not sure about the last digit but I thick it is a 6) - do you have any ideea what this first line is supposed to mean? > second line:189195 (i.e. the casting number which you correctly indicated); > third line: again the date: Q 4 12; - the engine number: D.180189 (initially I thought that the last three digits were 789 but looking better at it I tend to believe that the last three digits are 189). Do you think that there is simply a coincidence that the last three digits of the engine number (i.e. 189) are the same as the three digits of the casting numbers (both on top as well as on the bottom of the engine block) or was it intentionally? Thanks a lot for your help and the vast knowledge you are sharing here. All the best, Cristian
Spinneyhill Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 Coincidence. The engine numbers are done during assembly. The casting numbers are set before production starts. The next engine would be D180190 of course.
M29C3284 Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 You can also have look and see if your engine has, what I believe to be, the engine assembly date, stamped just above the rearmost exhaust post on the block. The picture show the date stamped on one of my Weasel engines. But yours might be stamped somewhere else on the block. If your engine number is hard to read, you might also find it stamped on the flange on the block where the oil pan is attached. I have seen this on the Rockne and -32 Commander engines. But I don't know if this was done on the later engines as my Weasel engines doesn't have it.
dictator27 Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 The 870 on the body tag is not specific to dictator coupes. Studebaker numbered all body styles consecutively so it indicates that it was the 870th of all body styles built for 1937. Terry
Cristian Posted June 26, 2017 Author Posted June 26, 2017 Hi guys, Thanks a lot for the useful information provided. I have just received an email from Studebaker National Museum (https://www.studebakermuseum.org/store/studebaker-production-orders/Production-Order-1936-1959) that they do not hold production order report for the Dictator model. Would you be so kind to let me know whether you know if there is any reliable source of information (pro-bono or against cash) that can be checked to see how the car was originally equipped and accessorized? Cheers, Cristian
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now