Bob Engle Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I removed the broken front spring and have a new leaf being made. The spring shackles have a fair amount of wear and I was wondering if anyone has reproduced these spring shackles? If not, I will have to make new ones myself. If I make them, would anyone else be interested in having some new ones? It's easier to make a batch than to make just a few. To do a complete front spring shackle replacement, It take four long bolts and two short ones. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Bob, I don't know a lot about D models. Do you have dimensions. Are they listed in this cross reference. Is there one here you can substitute. Hugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Thanks for the chart! I am somewhat confused about what is correct. My car has Type Z 32115 where the spring mounts to the frame at both the front and rear end. At the lower back of the front spring the bolt is Type X 36510. However, the Instruction manual for the 1917 D4 series under lubrication says to turn the brass cup 1/2 turn for lube, two cups at the rear and one at the front. My car only has one cup type lubricator at the rear and one at the front with no provision for lubrication on the lower rear. My goal is to keep this car as close to original unrestored as possible. I understand that with a 100 year old car, it is possible that some things have been changed or eliminated. I do know that there are some locations where the brass lube cups have been replaced with zirk fittings. I do suspect that any used bolts will have significant wear, so NOS or new manufactured parts ore the only goo alternatives. I am surely not an expert on this car, but I am working to learn evrything I can about them so I can enjoy driving it and occcasionally show it in Preservation or HPOF. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Bob, Your car will never see a lot of mileage at this point in its life, and the grease that is available today is far superior to what was available in the day, along with the fact that you will not be getting it all dirty and will pretty much be on paved roads. I would clean out everything, remove any rust, and reinstall using a good high quality grease. These parts do not move a lot. You wont even notice any difference, other than maybe a few less squeaks. You can always assemble it and swap bolts out later if you find any better ones. Having the bolts made could get expensive. Just my opinion. Hugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Bob, a lot of us on here would like for you to post some good close-up photos of the interior, dash (with the gauges), under hood shots showing both sides of the engine, and the top. You know how old Buick guys are. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Glad to share photos. I am by no means knowledgeable about this 1917 Buick. Part of the fun of a new car is learning details about the car. This car has supposedly spent it's first 88 years in California and then 12 years in a heated garage in Michigan. The front seat cushion and back have been recovered in vinyl and the rear cushion has been recovered in vinyl while the rear back is still original with a large tear in the leather. I've begun cleaning and conditioning the leather to try and keep original. The top was replaced at some time, but does show lack of care. Teh hood appears to have been repainted, while the rest of the body appears original. Speedometer cable is disconnected. so I will have to test the speedometer to see if it's operable or whether the problem is the cable or drive gear. The car is unrestored, however like all very old cars, maintenance and repair means some deviation from original. At this point, I don't know what is correct and what is not. I do see a lot of zirk fittings instead of brass cups. You will not hurt my feelings by questioning anything about the car. You all can help me increase my knowledge. My plans are to get the car driveable and enjoy driving it to local car shows. I hope to put it in HPOF at Hershey this fall. Please share your thoughts on the car. It will be appreciated. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Bob, I have some spare shackles & bolts. Please send dimensions so I can see if they will work for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 My first question Is the lower shackle bolt correct in this photo?? The Instruction book talks about a grease cup at this location. If this is just a 9/16" bolt, I can replace it with a stock bolt. The top bolt is 3 3/4" from shoulder to thread end. It is 9/16" X18 tpi. I could use 2 or 3 is the lower bolt is supposed to be like the top. I could also use the two U bolts that mount the spring to the front axle. It is 9/16" threads with a 2 1/16" inside width and 3 1/2" depth Last item are rear axle bolts and acorn nuts 1/2" 20 tpi 2 7/8" over all length 2" from tapered shoulder to end. I could use 2 of these. Send me a pm with pricing if you want to part with any of these parts. It would save me a lot of lathe time. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Bob, thank you for posting the photos of your D-45. In the above photo you asked if the lower shackle bolt was correct. It is not. The shackle bolts were drilled for a threaded grease cup. There were grease cups on all of the spring shackle points. Buick went to the Alemite pinned fittings for the 1920 models. I have some of the big acorn nuts for the rear wheels. I will send you a private message about them. Do you have the 'DELCO' key for the combination switch lock? If you do not, I have an extra one of those that I will part with. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Thanks Terry, I thought there were the grease cups on all bolts as the lube as the lube instructions talked about all fittings. I do NOT have the DELCO Key and would surely like to have one. I have come up on another question. I was able to readily remove the right rear wheel and brake drum once I got instructions on removing the axle. The left wheel doesn't want to cooperate. I've got the axle out, but the 2 1/2' NUT does not want to break free. I've got the locking trbs bent out of the way. Is it possible that it is a left hand Thread?? Thanks again, I'll look for the PM. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Bob, yes, the driver side rear wheel is left hand thread on the axle housing. This is one of the things that you will learn while playing with these old Buicks. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I spoke with Bob earlier this evening and we talked about the Delco Combination Switch Key. I told him that I would post a few photos to show what this little, extremely hard to find, key looks like. I think the technical term for this type of key is a barrel key since it slips over a pin in the switch mechanism. If anyone is looking for one of these keys, this is what you need to be watching for. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 If you guys will tolerate an opinion on grease cups/fittings from someone who no longer owns a Buick (I had a "modern" 1934 56S for 45 years): Depends on what you're going to do with the car! I've driven my 1918 Pierce 2,500 miles since acquiring it 16 months ago. Pierces used grease cups through 1920, then 2-pin Alemites, then zerks beginning in 1925. For a car driven frequently and extensively, I'll be double-dipped if I'll give each of more than 30 grease cups a turn EVERY day I drive it, as required by the owner's manual, especially for the springs. When my car was restored for touring 30 years ago, most of the grease cups were replaced with 2-pin Alemites with pretty nickeled dust covers, especially on all the spring eyes and shackles. The four u-joints, each with two lube points, have zerks, but you'd be hard pressed to see them without crawling all the way under the car. U-joint lube frequency is critical in these cars--every 300 miles, even with zerks. Even the 2-pin Alemites are a PITA so for most of them I find it easier to unscrew them, screw in a zerk, hit it with a gun, then put the Alemites back. With the zerks, I get enough quantity throughout the lube passage to last 1,000 miles or so -- except for brake pivot pins and the previously mentioned u-joints. There are still a few grease cups on the car. I'd probably install the grease cups only for HPOF judging (not my car, but yours), and use 2-pin Alemites on visible lube points. Your car, your labor.... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) I have a grease cup cap with a zirk fitting silver soldered to it. I simply replace the original cap to use my pneumatic grease gun to lube my cars. But you can also buy grease cups with modern fittings inside here: http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_model_t/model-t-ford-rear-axle-grease-cup-brass-original-appearing-modern-grease-fitting-inside.html Edited June 15, 2017 by Mark Shaw (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thank you, Mark! I'm going to invest in a dozen or so of those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Mark, that is a downright 'slick' idea. One must remove the cap to fill it with grease anyway, so why not do what you do and replace the original cap after pumping in the grease. I don't care what Larry Schramm and Brian Heil say about you, you're an alright dude! Good on ya. Please bring that little homemade cap with you to Milwaukee - I'd like to see it for grins and giggles. Terry Wiegand Out Doo Dah Way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Here's a photo of the shackle bolts and the modified grease cup cap: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Mark, do you have these 'modified' caps in several different sizes? My '16 has several sizes of cups to deal with. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Yes, and I have more shackle bolts too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) I also have some extra keys for your car if you or anyone else needs one. It is the same one for my '18 Buick truck. Edited June 17, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Rawling Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 If you need the U bolts, send me the measurements. I have a box full from 1926 - 1930 cars which look the same. If I have the correct ones, you can have them for the postage. fred.rawling@live.com 562 644-4670 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepcak Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 6/18/2017 at 1:08 AM, Larry Schramm said: I also have some extra keys for your car if you or anyone else needs one. It is the same one for my '18 Buick truck. "Larry, do you still have the key for Delco switch board? I would be interested to get one.. THX, Josef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Ben, Look at the photo of my spare combination switch with the 'barrel' key in it. That is the correct DELCO key for these switches. They show up on evilBay quite regularly. I looked for 15 years trying to find one and then got two of them at Hershey. It certainly helps to know what you are looking for looks like. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Ben, I looks like you have two different keys. The extra ones that I have look like the far right one. They have not been cheap and I have been paying more than $50.00 each plus shipping every time I find one because I have two vehicles that use them. I would be willing to sell one if someone wants to make me an offer. Just PM me with your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ben Perfitt said: Ben, The key in the picture show above with the little gear on the end is for the 1915 model vehicles. Maybe +- a year. It is even more rare that the triangle handle shaped key. I have seen these at Hershey once in a while and they go for $135.00 - $150.00 each range, at least that is what they were priced at. Ouch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Just for information sake - I gave $100.00 apiece for the two DELCO keys that I got at Hershey. They do surface now and then, but, not at bargain basement prices. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michealbernal Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 They appear very similar to a Smith and Wesson or Peerless hand cuff key. I wonder if one of those would work until you found an original. Hand cuff keys are like fifty cents at a uniform shop. If you have a police officer acquaintance ask to borrow his/her hand cuff key for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 They look like furniture keys to me. Drawers, doors on wardrobes, sideboards, cabinets etc., long case clock doors... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: They look like furniture keys to me. Drawers, doors on wardrobes, sideboards, cabinets etc., long case clock doors... I agree. The keys that I have, have the triangle at the top. Real Delco keys. Edited July 16, 2019 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21raceabout Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 For my C-25 speedster project I replaced all the original (and heavily worn) "Z" type bolts with the built in "base" for the grease cups with Grade 5 9/16" fine thread bolts. (Best deal on fasteners I've found is a Bolt Depot.com in MA, short of the Grade 2 junk sold for $1 a pound at Marden's.) I drilled the bolts on lathe part way down the length through the head and cross drilled in the center for the grease to exit. I threaded the hole through the head with 1/8" PT so as to enable use of standard grease cups from Model T suppliers or a Zerk fitting. I calculated shear capability for the bolts with the internal hole and found plenty of margin of safety with Grade 5. This avoided having to buy carbide taps for Grade 8. I recognize I'm compromising authnticity but this will be a driver rather than a show car and everything done is fully reversable. All the old worn out steel bushings in springs pressed out and replaced with bronze from McMaster drilled out on lathe then reamed after install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, 21raceabout said: For my C-25 speedster project I replaced all the original (and heavily worn) "Z" type bolts with the built in "base" for the grease cups with Grade 5 9/16" fine thread bolts. (Best deal on fasteners I've found is a Bolt Depot.com in MA, short of the Grade 2 junk sold for $1 a pound at Marden's.) I drilled the bolts on lathe part way down the length through the head and cross drilled in the center for the grease to exit. I threaded the hole through the head with 1/8" PT so as to enable use of standard grease cups from Model T suppliers or a Zerk fitting. I calculated shear capability for the bolts with the internal hole and found plenty of margin of safety with Grade 5. This avoided having to buy carbide taps for Grade 8. I recognize I'm compromising authnticity but this will be a driver rather than a show car and everything done is fully reversable. All the old worn out steel bushings in springs pressed out and replaced with bronze from McMaster drilled out on lathe then reamed after install. Ditto on my '28 Hupp and used alemite pin fittings. I didn't have to deal with the spring eye. Edited July 16, 2019 by JFranklin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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