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Removing engine 1938 Special


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Was hoping not to have to do this but...

 

   Radiator is out, head is off, exhaust off, engine pan off. What needs to come off car to get the engine out of ?

I can't believe I can't find this info by googling it but I can't. Hoping not to have to take the front clip off but ? 

 

   Thanks in advance.

 

                 Tyler

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My experience is with a 37 Roadmaster, but it should be very simular.  If you have a way to lift it high enough to clear you can do it.  Removing the front clip makes it MUCH easier.  The front clip is actually quite easy to remove. You will need a helper to make it easier and prevent dammage to the paint.  If you are doing this with a normal engine hoist be extreemly careful.  Even the small engine is VERY heavy.  Yours should be much lighter with everything stripped off.  When I did mine it was complete including the transmission and that was way to heavy for a normal hobbiest engine hoist.  Mine was rated at 4000 pounds at full extension and it was still very spooky with things swaying  4-5 feet in the air.  Be vary careful...

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To me it would be easier to rent a hoist or crane that would lift it high enough to clear everything then to remove and then reinstall the clip. I thought there might be some other issue besides how high the 

hoist lifts that requires the clip to be taken off.

 

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Removing the engine with the front clip on can be done. The question is "is it wise?"  The engine weighs in th neighborhood of 700# and you'd have to lift it in excess of 6 feet in the air. Getting that much lift and then more in lowering  is difficult and probably dangerous for most folks. I doubt that a "cherry picker" would do it.

The front clip comes off easily.

 

Obvioulsy - your choice

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I have done it both ways.  Easier with the clip off, of course.

 

Both times I removed the gear box first.

 

But, my real two cents is this - if you mount the engine to a hobbiest engine stand, it is a bit too long to be stable.  In other words, it will try to tip the stand forward - and I am only talking about my experience with a borrowed stand and the 248 engine.  For safety, I left the engine hoist connected to the front of the block, in case of tipping.  I seem to recall it wanting to tip in one orientation, but not the other.  (i.e. bottom up, vs. top up).

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I put my 1931 Model 57 straight 8 engine on an engine stand and before I disconnected the hoist, I added another support on the front engine mount to a brace bolted across the legs of the stand.  This kept everything balanced, but did not allow me to rotate the engine on the stand.

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)
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I would in no way use a cherry picker hoist that is not designed for the height or weight. A chain hoist from a high beam would be ideal or a heavy duty engine hoist stand could be rented. I have heard it is very hard to get the front grille and hood and fenders properly aligned once they are removed and that is a bigger challenge for me than lifting out the motor. I have done many engine swaps in hot rods and custom cars and am comfortable with that. There are many types of rigging available today that will tilt and turn engines as they are being lifted out of the engine bay. I would imagine it would be much easier if the front fenders and grille were not there.

Edited by LAS VEGAS DAVE (see edit history)
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I don't know if I did it in the right sequence but I got the hood sides off, grill is off but looks like the front fenders are going to have to come off, too. That appears to be the only way to get the radiator brace? off. Not looking foreword to putting it back together.

 

       Probably use a chain fall to get it out and then back in. Thanks for all the help, everyone.

 

     Tyler

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The biggest problem with most cherry pickers is they lack the height needed to clear things if the engine is tilted. I worked at a construction company for 20 years here in Vegas and they have service trucks with huge hydraulic booms on them can lift heavy and high. I borrowed one the last time I lifted a 1950 Oldsmobile motor out of the car and it made it easy.

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Taking the front clip off in one piece (radiator included) is pretty easy. Remove wiring and then about 20 bolts and the whole thing comes off. It is heavy and a 3 person job. ( or 2 people and a cherry picker)

i have always pulled the engine and trans together (after removing the shift lever). It  is easy with thr front clip removed.

 

In my opinion, disconnecting the trans and leaving it in the chassis, isnt a good idea. It is dangling via the torque tube and the  trans mount. When you go to install the engine you end up having to alight not only the trans, but the motor mounts too.

If you install the engine and then the trans, you have to deal with not only the trans, but also the BS with the torque tube.

In the end I think it is more work.

My opinion and I have done lots of Buicks

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I pushed the axle back and dropped the transmission first - would never pull the engine off of the transmission.  Anyway, you will have to push the axle back to get the driveshaft spline out of the transmission.

 

This approach was recommended by a 30's - 50's Buick mechanic, although I really can't say if his advice was because of my garage equipment limitations or if it was the way it was done.  Doesn't matter, this old friend's advice was good enough for me!

 

Oh yeah, I pulled the cylinder head off prior to lifting the engine.  Bolted the hoist chain links directly to the block.

 

More than one way to skin a cat - just be safe.

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Tyler, sorry I'm late to the party, you've probably got it done by now, but here's my engine on the way out, and on the stand.

 

I did take off the head and oilpan before removal, but left the gearbox on.

 

Dan

DSC00148.JPG

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DSC00174.JPG

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Well, Don ... it was 12 years ago, and 12 hours is a stretch for my memory :P  But yeah, looking at the rest of the photos I took, I set it down on a pair of sawhorses and stripped it down to the bare block.  On the stand it had nothing in it but the cam.  Too long, I do remember having the block milled at one shop, the crank ground at another, putting it all back together on that stand, new bearings and rods and pistons from Terrill Machine.  Reason I did all this was when I got the car two of the pistons were broken, cyls all scored up.

 

Should mention, one thing that helps a lot pulling the engine is that tilt thing I have on there.  Bought that back when I was working on my MG, don't know how anybody gets THAT engine out or back in without one.

 

Dan

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Ok, got the engine out but it didn't want to separate from the tranny very well. If I would have read the comments here, I would have taken them out together. Hope I didn't break anything.

 

  There is some metal ring that's come off between the engine and trans., looks like it goes around the exposed bearing on the front of the trans. Is this supposed to be loose? It's about 2" in diameter.

 

should I pull the trans. out and attach it to the engine before putting the engine back in the car?

 

  I'll be putting new mounts in the engine and trans. so everything should line up, right?

 

            Thanks again guys.

 

     Tyler

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That ring on the front of trans actually should help hold the throw out sleeve in place - it is actually kind of a bellville washer and it important. It fits into the bell housing with a very slight tight fit. Bobs Automobilia has replacements.

I dont know if the if you could get the entire engine & trans installed in the car with the engine fully assembled with the fornt clip on.

I'd pull the trans out. Trying to stab the pilot shaft, and all that stuff with the trans in the car might be really difficult.  Others comments?

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Also, Tyler, don't be a dummy like me and skip changing the torque ball seal while you have everything out.  I was kind of overwhelmed by it all, I guess, but been regretting that ever since, the dripping, the dripping ...   Haven't gotten around to it yet.   In my defense, got this car the year my twin boys were born (they're 12), been busy  :-)   Somehow managed to do the engine while they were babies, but sure wish I'da done that silly seal while it was easy.

 

Dan

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