Guest testdrive Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Hello all! I was lucky enough to get a 1989 16V TC (VIN ending in 204443) from a family member that had it stored in a barn for around 20 years. I have gotten fairly far into getting it running again, with just now getting the fuel pump to run, although now the injectors (which I had working for a small amount of time a few months ago) aren't priming and aren't spraying when the engine is turning over. Is there a way to check power to them other than taking the intake manifold off? I can confirm that it will start/run while being sprayed with starting fluid, so I don't believe it's the crank position sensor. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest testdrive Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Another note: I have also tested the ground for the injectors and it's fine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Dude Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 hours ago, testdrive said: Another note: I have also tested the ground for the injectors and it's fine as well. Curious! The grounding of the injector is what actuates the individual injector. The voltage to the injectors is a constant, when the engine is cranking or running. So which ground have you verified? AND, this engine is NOT equipped with a crank position sensor!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest testdrive Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 51 minutes ago, Hemi Dude said: Curious! The grounding of the injector is what actuates the individual injector. The voltage to the injectors is a constant, when the engine is cranking or running. So which ground have you verified? AND, this engine is NOT equipped with a crank position sensor!!! It's the ground in between the two cylinders on the left (looking from front to back) on the front side of the fuel rail. Didn't realize about the sensor not being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper1 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 So, to verify signal to the injectors you need to go rent/buy a "Noid Light" kit. It plugs into the injector plug and will be able to flash when it senses a signal. As Hemi said, the injectors have a constant 12V when the engine is running/cranking (unless in "flood clear mode"). Are there any codes stored from the computer? Have you done the "key dance" to get the codes? I personally suggest starting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest testdrive Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Reaper1 said: So, to verify signal to the injectors you need to go rent/buy a "Noid Light" kit. It plugs into the injector plug and will be able to flash when it senses a signal. As Hemi said, the injectors have a constant 12V when the engine is running/cranking (unless in "flood clear mode"). Are there any codes stored from the computer? Have you done the "key dance" to get the codes? I personally suggest starting there. I have checked for codes and I got 11, 12, and 55, which all have nothing to do with this. In further news: I have concurred by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery with the key on that I can hear the injectors, they're just extremely weak compared to the time I got them to work before. Would too little gas in the fuel tank cause this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Dude Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 21 hours ago, testdrive said: It's the ground in between the two cylinders on the left (looking from front to back) on the front side of the fuel rail. Didn't realize about the sensor not being there. Well, that is the main ground for all electrical engine components (K5 & J9) that require a direct ground, but not the injectors which are grounded individually within the SMEC (engine controller) There is a test fitting on the fuel rail, have you verified that you have 50-55lb fuel pressure to the injectors? There are only 2 injector circuits (Y11) & (Y12) to and from the SMEC from the injectors because #1 & 2 (Y11) injectors are discharged simultaneously as are the #3 & 4 (Y12) injectors. The 'HOT' side of the injector circuit is (Z1) which is energized whenever the ASD relay is energized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest testdrive Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hemi Dude said: Well, that is the main ground for all electrical engine components (K5 & J9) that require a direct ground, but not the injectors which are grounded individually within the SMEC (engine controller) There is a test fitting on the fuel rail, have you verified that you have 50-55lb fuel pressure to the injectors? There are only 2 injector circuits (Y11) & (Y12) to and from the SMEC from the injectors because #1 & 2 (Y11) injectors are discharged simultaneously as are the #3 & 4 (Y12) injectors. The 'HOT' side of the injector circuit is (Z1) which is energized whenever the ASD relay is energized. I have not tested for pressure yet, although I may have found something out. First, does the Auto Shutdown Relay power the injectors? If so, the noise I was hearing is not them since that noise happens with the green/black wire from the ASD disconnected. I'm going to go through all of my wiring and get better connectors to see if that helps anything, although the coil and fuel pump are both getting 12v from the same wire... EDIT: Another question: is there any easy way to get to the fuel injector harness, without removing either the radiator or the intake manifold? I can barely get my hands to any of the injector connectors let alone take one off to test it. Edited June 10, 2017 by testdrive (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Dude Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) On 6/9/2017 at 6:15 PM, testdrive said: I have not tested for pressure yet, although I may have found something out. First, does the Auto Shutdown Relay power the injectors? If so, the noise I was hearing is not them since that noise happens with the green/black wire from the ASD disconnected. I'm going to go through all of my wiring and get better connectors to see if that helps anything, although the coil and fuel pump are both getting 12v from the same wire... EDIT: Another question: is there any easy way to get to the fuel injector harness, without removing either the radiator or the intake manifold? I can barely get my hands to any of the injector connectors let alone take one off to test it. YES, the ASD Relay does provide 12 volts to the injectors through the (Z1) circuit. You should make it a PRIORITY to find out if you have fuel pressure before messing up any more wiring. Did you not notice that I have already informed you of this in my answer above? Edited June 11, 2017 by Hemi Dude Additional information (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinCamFan Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Two questions for now, in your first post you said, 'just now getting fuel pump to run'. Does that mean you replaced it? If the answer is NO than that is your FIRST task. A fuel pump CANNOT survive 20 years in storage and put out more than a trickle. Second, did you clean out or at least inspect the fuel tank? Is it filled with sediment/sludge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper1 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I tend to agree here. I'd say you need to drop the fuel tank and see what kind of nastiness hides in there. I had a pump turn to mush in a tank in only 5 years of sitting, so I can only imagine 20! Next thing, replace ALL of the rubber fuel injection hose (under the car and in the engine bay). That stuff gets old and if it fails can make your car go up in a ball of fire. Not fun. Be sure to replace the fuel filter as well. If you haven't already...BEFORE starting the engine and letting it run too long, do an oil change! Old engine oil becomes acidic and contaminated with water vapor as well. Not good for things like bearings. So, for sure start at the fuel tank and then let us know what you find. BTW, where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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