Buick Matching numbers help

[35buickakaBelle]

Hi all need guidance on how to determine if my car has matching engine or how to match numbers to engine and other components. I got the vin of the frame and the block number but not sure what numbers i have to match. Any other locations i should look for more numbers. Thanks for the help. 1935 buick S40. I hope they all match 

[F&J]

1 hour ago, 35buickakaBelle said:

Hi all need guidance on how to determine if my car has matching engine or how to match numbers to engine and other components. I got the vin of the frame and the block number but not sure what numbers i have to match. Any other locations i should look for more numbers. Thanks for the help. 1935 buick S40. I hope they all match 

 

Have you posted on the AACA Buick Prewar forum?  You should get a quicker and correct answer there.

 

A far as GM brands of that era, they likely may all be different systems.  My 34 LaS has:  An engine stamped ID number that is also the real car serial number in complete form, starting with first two digits are the numerical code for 34 (not a 34, but is a 21), then the rest of it, after a dash or space, is the running number of 34 production of chassis built so far, WITH spare zeros preceding the actual number of chassis built to that point.. 

 

On the frame, it is a shortened version, same two digit year code number (21), but after the dash, it eliminates all zeros preceding the actual count of 34 cars. 

 

On all 34 calendar year built "genuine 1934 model LaS's", the entire ID number is also stenciled on the black painted firewall in pale yellow ink.  The Late-"34 model" run built from Jan to March 1935 does not have that stencil....these late 34 are still Fleetwood but show the body "style" tag's two digit code on firewall plate/cowl side, as 35, not 34 which is actually the non-Fisher body on the new 35 which started in late March? 35, as the official 35 LaS.

 

I have not gotten further yet, but I believe I've read that major large components also have that partial "matching number"

[39BuickEight]

They won't "match" per se as during at era, engines and frames had different numbers.  If you post your engine number, I'm sure someone can tell you if it is a 1935 engine.

[35buickakaBelle]

26 minutes ago, F&J said:

 

Have you posted on the AACA Buick Prewar forum?  You should get a quicker and correct answer there.

 

A far as GM brands of that era, they likely may all be different systems.  My 34 LaS has:  An engine stamped ID number that is also the real car serial number in complete form, starting with first two digits are the numerical code for 34 (not a 34, but is a 21), then the rest of it, after a dash or space, is the running number of 34 production of chassis built so far, WITH spare zeros preceding the actual number of chassis built to that point.. 

 

On the frame, it is a shortened version, same two digit year code number (21), but after the dash, it eliminates all zeros preceding the actual count of 34 cars. 

 

On all 34 calendar year built "genuine 1934 model LaS's", the entire ID number is also stenciled on the black painted firewall in pale yellow ink.  The Late-"34 model" run built from Jan to March 1935 does not have that stencil....these late 34 are still Fleetwood but show the body "style" tag's two digit code on firewall plate/cowl side, as 35, not 34 which is actually the non-Fisher body on the new 35 which started in late March? 35, as the official 35 LaS.

 

I have not gotten further yet, but I believe I've read that major large components also have that partial "matching number"

thanks 

[lump]

I don't know enough about 35 Buicks to help you with specific numbers and locations, but I've spent a lifetime teaching folks about "matching numbers" on certain muscle cars, through books I've written, magazines I've written and published, seminars, and one-on-one demonstrations. So I have a couple of insights for you...

 

The "numbers-matching" craze is actually oriented more towards muscle cars with rare and special performance drive train components, and some ultra-high point single-marque car show judging events (Corvettes, etc). For example, most collectors looking at a 1969 Z 28 Camaro are interested to learn if it has its original engine block, transmission housing, and differential housing; PLUS they want to verify all the bolt-on components with casting numbers and date codes are "correct" for that car. Why? Because muscle cars were generally driven hard and abused. Component failures were common, and most owners of muscle cars were constantly adding aftermarket parts in pursuit of more horsepower and better launches from the stop light. Engines and transmissions were swapped often, with the old original units lost to posterity. Carburetors, alternators, distributors, and exhaust manifolds were replaced commonly. Weak factory components (IE: Muncie shifter assemblies) were trashed in favor of better quality aftermarket parts (IE: Hurst shifters). Therefore, those few muscle cars and Corvettes, etc, which survived those halcyon years while retaining their original engine, drive train, and multiple components are pretty uncommon today. Thus buyers place a powerful premium on documented muscle cars with their original "matching numbers" components. Consequently, restorers and owners of vintage muscle cars are in constant pursuit of the "correct" components for their individual cars, hoping to make their car achieve the hallowed status of "matching numbers." Because that's where the value is. 

 

Moreover, most muscle cars were simply enhanced versions of ordinary passenger cars which the muscle cars sat beside on the dealer's lot. For example, there were many more "Malibu's" made than "SS 454 Chevelles," and many of those original muscle cars were destroyed by street racing, drag racing, accidents, catastrophic engine failures, etc, etc. However, lots of ordinary Malibu Chevelles were 2 door hardtops or convertibles with V8 engines...perfect for use in "cloning" or even faking an SS Chevelle with bolt-on components. And since an authentic SS 454 Chevelle is easily worth 5 times what a Malibu is worth, there is tremendous incentive for criminal fraud. And even the original factory documentation has been forged, with much of it available with any names or production codes you wish to order. 

 

With all this in mind, experienced collectors of vintage muscle cars have learned to check casting numbers, stamped numbers, and production date codes for components found all over these cars. For example, if you find a for-sale "numbers-matching" muscle car with an engine block bearing a date code that proves the block was cast AFTER the car was completed on the assembly line, you know for a fact that it is not the engine the car was "born-with," and thus that car is not truly a "matching numbers" original. By checking codes on all the engine components, power brake booster, wiper motor, etc, etc, etc...you can begin to get a more complete picture of the history of a muscle car, and MIGHT even uncover a clone being offered as an original. 

 

However, all this doesn't mean much for cars with very ordinary drive trains (ordinary for their own model year, I mean). Casting numbers which prove that a 6 cylinder engine block is original to a 1953 Bel Air, for example, have very little to do with value. ALL 1953 Bel Air models had that same motor, with none of them being extra desirable or more valuable. The only thing a "matching number" can prove (assuming it is "matching"), is that the engine was the same ordinary motor for that car. When potential buyers look at a 1953 Chevy for sale and see a Chevy 6 cylinder motor...most or many of them are not too worried that the block may have been replaced under warranty back in the 1950's. Essentially...so what? 

 

In my experience, this lack-of-concern about matching numbers is even more prominent in older cars. Example: if you find a wonderful big old Locomobile touring car in great condition for a great price, would you reject it if the motor or engine block had been replaced, or if the distributor had been produced a month after the car was finally assembled? I doubt it. Indeed, I think most people wouldn't care at all. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by lump (see edit history)

[lump]

The shorter version I could have said, I suppose, is, "Don't worry too much about achieving a "matching numbers" status on your 1935 Buick. Enjoy the car. 

[F&J]

3 hours ago, lump said:

 The shorter version I could have said, I suppose, is, "Don't worry too much about achieving a "matching numbers" status on your 1935 Buick. Enjoy the car. 

 

One added note to sort of go the other way on "importance"of matching numbers in a ID situation only:

 

If my 34 had an unknown registration serial number, due to being off the road since 1939,,, papers gone, past owners know nothing...and most but not all of the frame number is rusted/pitted away,....... If you are fortunate to have a car that had the same engine number or partial number on a bigger component...you can piece the whole ID serial number back together. 

 

On my 34 no, I am ok,............... but my 32 Ford was a partial number legible, but missing the middle two digits, then over there, the middle was clear enough, and I DID get the complete 100% original number for my exact car,

[35buickakaBelle]

From I've researched the number for the engine and the ID of the frame is correct for the year but still looking. thanks for yalls help. very good opinions my thought is it would be nice to know if the car is all original. i bought it 1 1/2 years ago. The lady i bought it from was her grandfathers which she bought from him and the grandfather got as a payment for watching someones dogs. Not sure how true is that but very interesting.

[sean1997]

As stated above, no such thing as numbers matching for 1956 and earlier Buick's.  Starting in 1957 the car serial number was also stamped on the engine, so the car and engine serial number would match.

[lump]

9 hours ago, F&J said:

 

One added note to sort of go the other way on "importance"of matching numbers in a ID situation only:

 

If my 34 had an unknown registration serial number, due to being off the road since 1939,,, papers gone, past owners know nothing...and most but not all of the frame number is rusted/pitted away,....... If you are fortunate to have a car that had the same engine number or partial number on a bigger component...you can piece the whole ID serial number back together. 

 

On my 34 no, I am ok,............... but my 32 Ford was a partial number legible, but missing the middle two digits, then over there, the middle was clear enough, and I DID get the complete 100% original number for my exact car,

Your point is valid, F&J..and is not really "...the other way..." from what I was trying to explain.

 

VIN numbers, etc, are important for making identification possible for the vast majority of vintage vehicles, for sure. But the concept of a car being declared as, "numbers matching" refers to all the bolt-on components bearing date codes and/or casting numbers or part numbers in the exact sequence which would be correct for that one individual car. In the 1960's and 70's GM muscle car examples I was describing, there are date codes and casting numbers or part numbers on the carburetor, distributor, water pump, fuel pump, block, cylinder heads, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, pulleys, bellhousing, flywheel, transmission housing, power brake booster, master cylinder, steering gear box, alternator, coil, rear end housing, window glass, etc, etc, etc. So when an owner claims his or her car is a genuine, "Numbers-Matching" example, educated show judges and prospective buyers expect ALL of those components to have dates which slightly precede the date on the "trim tag" which indicates when the vehicle was on the assembly line. And of course, these components must also bear the widely-recognized "correct" part numbers or casting numbers. Those "matching numbers" concepts really don't apply to much older cars, and are not of great consequence to judges and/or potential buyers...at least in my experience. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by lump (see edit history)

[F&J]

6 hours ago, lump said:

Those "matching numbers" concepts really don't apply to much older cars, and are not of great consequence to judges and/or potential buyers...at least in my experience

Exactly the way I feel on the old cars, and I also never got "held back" on some "wrong" pieces on any muscle car I have owned, or ones my friends were VERY dismayed about on their car. I'd always say to them.....in the words of my good friend Kenny..."who's to know?"  ...meaning only YOU will ever know the Muncie tail housing casting is "wrong"...  

[Guest]

Does matching mean the same?  I thought the idea of matching numbers was to prove that the parts were the original ones.  On my car, engine and serial number are different but they "MATCH' the documentation that I have from General Motors Canada about my car and where and when it was built.  So, can I say my car has matching Numbers???? 

[lump]

3 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Does matching mean the same?  I thought the idea of matching numbers was to prove that the parts were the original ones.  On my car, engine and serial number are different but they "MATCH' the documentation that I have from General Motors Canada about my car and where and when it was built.  So, can I say my car has matching Numbers???? 

Tin, First, orient us all a bit more. Exactly what make/model/year car are you referring to, please? Once we know that, it is way easier to give you accurate information. 

[Guest]

I was asking a general question based on the English language. The car is the one listed in my signature.  To rephrase the question.  What is the opinion of the users of these forums.re "matching numbers" since It was only recently that the manufacturers (except for Ford who only had an engine number for years) put the same number on the engine and the body/chassis. The purpose today of "matching numbers" is to prove that the engine is the one that the vehicle came with.  When my car was built the two number were not the same but corporate records tell me exactly which number engine came in the car bearing a specific serial number.  I have owned six vehicles covering 1926-1931 inclusive and have the written records from General Motors stating which engine (by number) came in which car (by number).  What would be the proper nomenclature to describe these vehicles whose provenance proves that they have the original engines that match the records of each serial number but are not technically matching.  There must be a word???

[F&J]

1 hour ago, Tinindian said:

What is the opinion of the users of these forums.re "matching numbers" since It was only recently that the manufacturers (except for Ford who only had an engine number for years) put the same number on the engine and the body/chassis.

You should have asked that travelling salesman back in the 40s with the 34 LaSalle you talked about recently.  34 LaSalle has matching numbers on many pieces of the car, Motor Body Frame, and I believe more parts.  My parts manual says where on each component.  These were used by the Cad/LaS parts department to make sure a replacement part would fit on whatever component, like an engine that might have been switched.

 

But heck, 34 LaS was such a totally advanced car, more than any other car I know,..so... I am not surprised at all of it's true matching numbers....

[lump]

2 hours ago, Tinindian said:

I was asking a general question based on the English language. The car is the one listed in my signature.  To rephrase the question.  What is the opinion of the users of these forums.re "matching numbers" since It was only recently that the manufacturers (except for Ford who only had an engine number for years) put the same number on the engine and the body/chassis. The purpose today of "matching numbers" is to prove that the engine is the one that the vehicle came with.  When my car was built the two number were not the same but corporate records tell me exactly which number engine came in the car bearing a specific serial number.  I have owned six vehicles covering 1926-1931 inclusive and have the written records from General Motors stating which engine (by number) came in which car (by number).  What would be the proper nomenclature to describe these vehicles whose provenance proves that they have the original engines that match the records of each serial number but are not technically matching.  There must be a word???

Tinindian, I understand your "slant" on the point better now. 

 

Yes of course, you can say your car is a "matching numbers" vehicle, since the numbers "match" IN THE FASHION THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO when they are indeed original to your car. On the other hand, those debates and discussions which we hear constantly in our car hobby, such as car shows, auctions, etc, etc....are entirely focused on vehicles from the mid 1950's and up, I believe. And as I mentioned before, such issues are focused almost exclusively on vehicles whose value and collectibility is substantially affected by documentation which proves that they were indeed equipped from the factory with very special high performance engines and components. In nearly 60 years of my involvement in the old car hobby, I have never heard anyone ask if my Hupmobile or other cars of that vintage had "matching numbers." 

 

[sean1997]

10 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Does matching mean the same?  I thought the idea of matching numbers was to prove that the parts were the original ones.  On my car, engine and serial number are different but they "MATCH' the documentation that I have from General Motors Canada about my car and where and when it was built.  So, can I say my car has matching Numbers???? 

 

Canadian law requires that records be kept for all cars built or sold new in Canada.  Those lucky enough to have a Canadian built car or a U.S. built car sold new in Canada can therefore get documentation about their car.  For 1950's and earlier cars built by GM of Canada, the serial number tag lists both the car serial number and the engine serial number making it easy to prove if the original engine is in the car.

 

The commonly accepted definition of numbers matching for earlier cars is that the engine serial number matches the car serial number.  I would think it would be more appropriate to say that your car has the original engine.  If you say that it is numbers matching then future owners will expect the frame and engine serial number to be the same and they are not.

 

People familiar with the Buick section of this board will recognize me from my posts on Buick decoding.  I occasionally get contacted by police departments to help with identifying old Buicks.  You would not believe the crazy things people do to their cars VIN/serial number plates.  They will buy a car online that is supposedly "numbers matching” and then when they receive it, to their shock the numbers don't match what is on the title.  Of course, they are looking at the car serial number, which is generally easy to find on the car, but don't realize that back in the day many states used the engine serial number to title a car.  Since the car and engine serial numbers don't match for early Buicks, they then proceed to alter the visible serial number tag to match the engine number on the title because the car was sold to them as "numbers matching".  This of course does not go unnoticed by the police when they try to register the car who then have to determine whether the car is stolen or not.   I think the phrase "numbers matching" is more relevant to cars of the muscle car era, but it's use for earlier cars seems to have proliferated recently as a way to extract more money from unsuspecting buyers.

 

 

[Guest]

Yes of course, you can say your car is a "matching numbers" vehicle, since the numbers "match" IN THE FASHION THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO

Thank you lump.  I always knew that all six Pontiacs that I owned (at the same time) were original vehicles and had the documentation but always took two paragraphs to explain it.  Now I have the words.

 

F&J I was a mouthy kid then but at 6 I didn't know all the questions.

Thanks to both of you and all the rest of you "Buick People".  I often wish that my Grandfather had been better off and had bought a Buick.  I have often said that this is the BEST forum with the BEST guys.

 

[Guest]

sean1997  The serial number plate on Canadian built GM vehicles did not contain the engine number until 1935.  The original purchase papers and the GMAC coupon book both list both numbers for the Pontiac that my Grandfather bought new.

[sean1997]

23 hours ago, Tinindian said:

sean1997  The serial number plate on Canadian built GM vehicles did not contain the engine number until 1935.  The original purchase papers and the GMAC coupon book both list both numbers for the Pontiac that my Grandfather bought new.

  

That maybe true for Pontiacs, but McLaughlin/Buick and Chevrolet definitely had the numbers before that.  The tags below are from a 1912 McLaughlin, 1931 McLaughlin/Buick, 1932 Chevrolet, and 1933 McLaughlin/Buick (added a 1934 Canadian Pontiac tag on 6/8/2017 for Tinindian).

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by sean1997 (see edit history)

[Guest]

Very Interesting.  Another case where GM's left hand didn't/doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  My General Motors fast moving parts catalogue #298 published in 1948 and covering  1929-1948 says "The GM Serial Plate Tells The Story".  So does my Factory Approved Parts for General Motors Cars and Trucks, covering 1928-1945 and published in 1945

"Commencing in 1935 a coded serial number numbering system was introduced on Canadian Built General Motors Cars and Trucks.  This system permits full information relative to the series, body style etc."

It also shows a Serial Plate that coincides exactly with the information and layout of the Plate in your photos.  The only difference is that it doesn't say Oshawa, Wakerville Regina. 

I guess your 4 pictures out ranks GM's two pages of words.

sean1997 Thank you for more information to file in the computer.  But why didn't Pontiac also get the same treatment.  The poor old Indian is going to cry.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[sean1997]

I believe the 1935 reference refers to the fact that for the 1935 model year GM of Canada switched to a car serial number scheme that was common to all GM of Canada divisions.

[Mark Simmons]

35BuickakaBelle-- I own a '34 Buick series 40,model 41 sedan with trunk. Relative to the time it was produced the frame numbers, engine numbers and body numbers are as close as can be during the assembly of my car(aka matching numbers) This was verified by the former Buick numbers guru before his passing. I think it was '35 when GM started to actually record what engine number went to what frame number and body number. Write down your engine number and frame number if they are still on the car and post them on the pre-war Buick forum and I'm sure one of the numbers guys will get you an answer. Good Luck !  

[1939_Buick]

The other thread on this topic http://forums.aaca.org/topic/293890-buick-matching-numbers-help/

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[F&J]

4 hours ago, sean1997 said:

I believe the 1935 reference refers to

I know you all must have seen my words-only tag info on this thread already...but as big pictures sometimes make a fact very much more understandable? or visually more believable??

 

so here are the pics, and a re-run of my others "words" posted earlier here:

 

......matching numbers on GM autos, of this era.  I recently "had my azz handed to me", when I found out by a strange occurrence, that past written facts , and my own "personal car-owning knowledge", was wrong on the GM Firewall Style Number System:

 

I was always told, and I also then believed, that the first two digits "was positive undeniable proof of the exact year of that "model" of  the car in question.  Like a 1935 GM car will have "35" then a dash-.

 

This I now know is/was most typical, but not always true!!

 

 

 

^^^  I recently bought a largish collection of 34 LaSalle car, parts cars and parts.  One spare rot free body that I assumed was a 34 all along...well it surely is a 34.  But the Style Tag two digit said 35...  WTH?...

 

 

 

 

being that I bought the "complete/entire LaSalle collection" it came with this single 35 parts car.  But if you can compare, the 34 LaS all had Fleetwood bodies, the 35 all had the fisher bodies.  Impossible that the two styles be confused, due to the obvious differences.   So, why or how does the yellow 34 body carry a 35 tag I wondered.  I firstly assumed the tag was swapped?  No, it can't be that, as that tag says Fleetwood, not Fisher, and the rest of the style number verifies the body style this one is... ??

I finally found the answer in the "big book" which is the 1985 published, huge, "Standard Catalog of US cars" by Kimes/Clark.  I was reading the "engine number" starting and ending numbers.... then right after the "ending number of the last "34", it said this: (incudes engines built between Jan and Mar 1935)  WHAT??  Then it hit me, the Fisher body was not ready in time , so the 34 LaSalle production carried on until the end of March 1935....JUST like 1969 Camaros did!

 

My only point here of a re-post, is that a person MUST be aware of certain RARE oddities, before "assuming" like many of us did, ...a "blanket ID" (in this case, by only looking at the first two digits of a GM style tag!!!)   These rare oddities surely did not stop there, so perhaps a part of your car that you think is wrong...might really not be.

.

[35buickakaBelle]

6 hours ago, sean1997 said:

 

Canadian law requires that records be kept for all cars built or sold new in Canada.  Those lucky enough to have a Canadian built car or a U.S. built car sold new in Canada can therefore get documentation about their car.  For 1950's and earlier cars built by GM of Canada, the serial number tag lists both the car serial number and the engine serial number making it easy to prove if the original engine is in the car.

 

The commonly accepted definition of numbers matching for earlier cars is that the engine serial number matches the car serial number.  I would think it would be more appropriate to say that your car has the original engine.  If you say that it is numbers matching then future owners will expect the frame and engine serial number to be the same and they are not.

 

People familiar with the Buick section of this board will recognize me from my posts on Buick decoding.  I occasionally get contacted by police departments to help with identifying old Buicks.  You would not believe the crazy things people do to their cars VIN/serial number plates.  They will buy a car online that is supposedly "numbers matching” and then when they receive it, to their shock the numbers don't match what is on the title.  Of course, they are looking at the car serial number, which is generally easy to find on the car, but don't realize that back in the day many states used the engine serial number to title a car.  Since the car and engine serial numbers don't match for early Buicks, they then proceed to alter the visible serial number tag to match the engine number on the title because the car was sold to them as "numbers matching".  This of course does not go unnoticed by the police when they try to register the car who then have to determine whether the car is stolen or not.   I think the phrase "numbers matching" is more relevant to cars of the muscle car era, but it's use for earlier cars seems to have proliferated recently as a way to extract more money from unsuspecting buyers.

 

 

thanks for that tip. as I'm new to classic cars and trying to understand my car. Love my buick but like you said i hope is a "original engine". 

[35buickakaBelle]

6 hours ago, sean1997 said:

 

Canadian law requires that records be kept for all cars built or sold new in Canada.  Those lucky enough to have a Canadian built car or a U.S. built car sold new in Canada can therefore get documentation about their car.  For 1950's and earlier cars built by GM of Canada, the serial number tag lists both the car serial number and the engine serial number making it easy to prove if the original engine is in the car.

 

The commonly accepted definition of numbers matching for earlier cars is that the engine serial number matches the car serial number.  I would think it would be more appropriate to say that your car has the original engine.  If you say that it is numbers matching then future owners will expect the frame and engine serial number to be the same and they are not.

 

People familiar with the Buick section of this board will recognize me from my posts on Buick decoding.  I occasionally get contacted by police departments to help with identifying old Buicks.  You would not believe the crazy things people do to their cars VIN/serial number plates.  They will buy a car online that is supposedly "numbers matching” and then when they receive it, to their shock the numbers don't match what is on the title.  Of course, they are looking at the car serial number, which is generally easy to find on the car, but don't realize that back in the day many states used the engine serial number to title a car.  Since the car and engine serial numbers don't match for early Buicks, they then proceed to alter the visible serial number tag to match the engine number on the title because the car was sold to them as "numbers matching".  This of course does not go unnoticed by the police when they try to register the car who then have to determine whether the car is stolen or not.   I think the phrase "numbers matching" is more relevant to cars of the muscle car era, but it's use for earlier cars seems to have proliferated recently as a way to extract more money from unsuspecting buyers.

 

 

Heres my engine number 42975590 and ID 2812190.

[39BuickEight]

40 minutes ago, 35buickakaBelle said:

Heres my engine number 42975590 and ID 2812190.

based on what Bob Engle posted in the other thread, those are both 1935 numbers

[35buickakaBelle]

So as I'm replacing cap and rotor I notice all components inside say delco remy. What does that mean? Does it mean no one has done a  tune up or all original components. This reference me back to all original engine.  

[F&J]

Just now, 35buickakaBelle said:

I notice all components inside say delco remy. What does that mean?

 

 

No disrespect to your thought train at all, but you are making an "unfounded" assumption when you added late that it may mean they are original ones to the car in 35...  I bet the same matching brands will be true with some, if maybe all of my recent purchase of several 34-and one 35 LaS engines.

[1939_Buick]

1 hour ago, 35buickakaBelle said:

So as I'm replacing cap and rotor I notice all components inside say delco remy. What does that mean? Does it mean no one has done a  tune up or all original components. This reference me back to all original engine.  

Delco Remy was the GM brand of electric. 99.9% chance they have been replaced in the last 80+ years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_International

 

For replacemeets try http://bobsautomobilia.com/

Edited June 9, 2017 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[sean1997]

An excerpt from the July 2013 Buick Bugle: