Pilgrim65 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Hi Guys dont know whether 12 months after purchase is when flaws start to appear , having a continuous string of problems this year , had thought all sorted last week , have a perfect week and today lowered top before we went cruising along the coast , thought I'd put up again for return as bit warm 32 degrees and bingo no response . Not sure how they work but imagine solenoid engaging hydraulics. any advice on fault finding appreciated. cheers pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Best to check the manual posted on Hometown Buick site. You're right in the middle of the era with several changes. That manual is readable and will apply to the 53 vs the systems that came before or after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Cheers John check out this week end , at least it's dry here and won't stop me using . hope you have a great week end pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Same to you Pilgrim! Hope this problem is easily handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Hi John checked my manual , but I'm probably a wally as although it gives location of unit , I can't see it , think it may translation problem of American / English and Uk / english fender ... wing hood ....bonnet cowl ....? Think cowl also , but where is cowl under the hood ? Is it the black plate shown in my photo advice anyone? cheers pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 You need to look up under the fender edge, just behind the right front wheel well. You will see the bottom of the reservoir held on by a bail wire. It is awkward. Do you have power windows, as well, and do they work? Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Cheers Bernie will look thanks power windows , yes handpower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Same pump juices the hydraulic window pistons. If they worked and the top didn't then it would be the top switch. On these systems the local switch powers the pump relay (solenoid) and in the case of the windows, energizes the normally closed cylinder valve. Over the years the current flow through the switch can cause the contacts to fail. Even the slight arc on closure can erode the contact and create resistance over time. I have done quite a bit of electrical work on Rolls-Royce cars and found a capacitor (condenser style) mounted on most of the switches. It arrests the arc and extends the life of the switch. I have considered adding those to my older cars and ones with hard to find switches as a preventive measure. After 50 years a lot is expected of those switches. Once yours is sorted out, adding a .2 to .4 MF condenser at the switch might be overkill, but that's what I am thinking about doing. I am thinking there is a '51-'52 Packard 250 with a power top and windows heading my way in the next couple of years. I know it will get the modification. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 7 hours ago, Pilgrim65 said: I know it's unrelated, but you need to put a breather cap on top of your engine and toss that oil fill cap. Unless you've got a crankcase breather system on there, you're suffocating the old girl. Good luck with the convertible issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Pilgrim65 said: Hi John checked my manual , but I'm probably a wally as although it gives location of unit , I can't see it , think it may translation problem of American / English and Uk / english fender ... wing hood ....bonnet cowl ....? Think cowl also , but where is cowl under the hood ? Is it the black plate shown in my photo advice anyone? cheers pilgrim Yes, to all of that. The cowl is the whole thing behind the hood and front fenders/wings underneath the windshield, and in front of the doors. It includes the red piece in your picture, and the black cover bolted to it. The red vertical piece of the cowl in your picture would also be called the firewall here. Im not sure how much of that is the same in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The pump/reservoir should be located behind the passengers front fender. As the book says, it is accessed from the engine compartment. One potential quick fix would be to loosen and re tighten the ground strap at the top of the pump, and where the strap attaches to the car body. However it may be possible that the ground strap is riveted to the pump. If you cannot see it easily, hold a mirror over the unit and look to see if there is any corrosion around that ground strap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Morning guys thanks for all the advice appreciated , I forward all your comments by email to myself and keep your recommendations in my Ruby care file and to do list. beemon , will check breather issue , thanks day2 on top today will advise on progress later cheers pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) A lot of misleading advice (aka bogus information) above... ♦ First off, you're looking in the wrong book; ♦ Don't look under the front passenger fender near the cowl. It's not there; ♦ Your 1952 Buick Shop Manual (Post #5) shows a Hydro-Lectric Motorvator hydraulic pump that is similar to what is found on 12-volt 1953 Buick SUPER/ROADMASTER Models that powers the top, windows, and two-way (forward/rearward) front seat; ♦ 1953 Buick 40-series SPECIALS were not offered with powered windows or seats; ♦ An OE Hydro-Lectric Power System used in the 1953 Buick SPECIAL 46C Model is 6-volt, totally different design, and is what Buick called a "sealed-in" system...not vented to the atmosphere; ♦ Don't look for any riveted ground straps; ♦ Don't look for any relays; ♦ Don't look for a reservoir held on by bail wire; ♦ You need to look in your 1953 Buick Shop Manual. Assuming the mechanical operation of the top bows/links/rails are not causing your problem, you need to do a few pressure tests between the Motor/Pump assembly ports and the top/bottom ends of your two lift cylinders. The Buick Bible says "...either the pump is not delivering adequate pressure or you have fluid leakage past the piston in one or both cylinders..." Good luck. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" "...If the top don't drop, it's just another parts car..." Edited June 6, 2017 by 1953mack (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 1953 Mack , many thanks , is the 6v unit supposed to be in the same location as mentioned , have attached photo of my manual and relevant pages and wonder if they are applicable cheers pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 ♦ The OE motor/pump should be mounted with rubber grommets on the right side of the rear compartment lower division panel under the folding top compartment fabric bag...according to Buick's 1953 Shop Manual. ♦ The cover picture of your 1952-1953 Buick Shop Manual looks like someone's reprint. It might have excluded details on the 6-volt Model 46C Power System Unit. The copied pages you show are not applicable to your unit; ♦ This is what your 1953 Model 46C power system should look like...completely different with no hydraulic fluid metal lines between the motor/pump and the cylinders. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Al , many thanks , thought I was bonkers when I couldn't find it behind fender. on the case tomorrow cheers pilgrim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Here are the pressure numbers in pounds per square inch that you should be reading when you check out your system. This is part of the five-page write-up for the Model 46C in a 1953 Buick Shop Manual if yours doesn't have it. Let me know if you need all five pages. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Hi Al appreaciate your help , checked my manual and nothing in section for 46c.so will private message you with my email address and if your could photograph pages would be great. also I wonder if it describes how to gain access as have tried lifting top , but resists strongly so unsure that is method and don't want to damage further. cheers pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Since the page shown indicates installing the pressure guage after the top is down, I would guess access is from within the trunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Cheers John , going to have a look in morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Pilgrim, no one ever asked, so let me do so. Do you hear the motor run when you activate the switch to put the top up or down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Morning Guys , thanks to Al and John , followed instructions in manual pages kindly sent by Al , took out back seat , bingo there it is ! did as John suggested listened to solinoid , heard click , so followed wiring and found in line fuse , fuse blown!! put a temporary wire strand in place and up she goes!! eyes are not that good , but think it says .25A , going to try to find one today , but motor shops thin on the ground locally , so taking a trip to Kyrenia , hopefully is the only problem , but why it blew is a query cheers Guys for all your help and advice. pilgrim Edited June 7, 2017 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 Final question, picked a new fuse , but the chap in auto shop said it must be 25Amp not .25A, he's probably right ,but a member confirmation would put mind at rest as wouldn't want to overload motor cheers pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 pilgrim, so glad you found the culprit. Yes, probably 25 Amp. The fuse protects the WIRE, when , for some reason, the motor pulls too many amps. I would install a new fuse and try the top. If the fuse does not blow right away, don't worry about it. If it blows right away, then look for the problem. The problem will be AFTER the fuse up through the motor. Could actually be mechanical. As in the top mechanism binding or the joints needing lubrication, thereby requiring the motor to work too hard . Keep at it and you will find it. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Like Ben said, lube all joints. The wiring may also be brittle inside the motor, or corroded or any other means of creating a direct short circuit to blow the fuse if the lube job doesn't help the issue. Get the multimeter out and check for continuity. A good wire will always have some resistance, a bad wire will have none. Also if you get a buddy to help, you can confirm 6V (6V car right? ) makes it to the solenoid. Anything more or less will give you an indication of corrosion and possible shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Could be just an old, old fuse that gave up after years of near capacity load. If the fuse is very hard to get to, substitute a circuit breaker which will protect the wiring, but reset after cooling down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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