JV Puleo Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 I did find the more-or-less complete original big bearing I'm replacing in the hub. You can see the gap around the edges of the plate/shield at the rear... This is the problem I haven't thought of a solution for. These cross-shaped pieces fit into the hub and anchor the ends of the axles. All of the turning torque is transmitted through them. They have a trapezoidal shape and on one of them, someone has welded up four of the edges. The fit is quite precise...they cant go to the bottom and, so far, I've found it difficult to measure the exact angle... But, to keep on with the job...I cut reliefs in the ends of the two big sleeves for the tiny bit of metal left from flattening out the bottoms of the bearing sockets. They are now ready to press in. I could possible do that cold but I'd prefer not to take a chance so I'm heating the hub to 600 degrees. That should expand the hole about .0175 so that, if all goes to plan, they should fall in...or at least press in easily. I left this cooking while I came up to post this...so back to the shop. I don't like leaving it burning without being there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 It didn't go together as well as I'd expected and I may have a real problem...but more tomorrow. I'm going to sleep on it rather than push too hard. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 (edited) Here's a crude measurement of the angle. I placed your picture of the part into my CAD program, drew two lines to mark the edges, and dimensioned the angle between them. It came out 6.55 degrees, so each side would be about 3.27 degrees off vertical. It's not necessarily a good measurement because the part is turned and tilted in the photo, but it's a start. Old-time designers would typically use a standard taper that could be set up with sine bars, and integer values were common. So a 1-in-18 taper works out to 3.18 degrees. The best I can suggest is to cut a couple of templates and try them out. I'm guessing (from the 12" x 12" steel plate on the burner), that the o.d of the end is about 5 inches and the narrow end of the tapered part that fits in the slot is about 1.3" wide. I can lay out some tapered gauges in the CAD program and put them in a PDF file for you to print out and cut out with scissors. Quicker than cutting metal gauges. EDIT: Or was the steel plate bigger than 12x12? Edited March 7, 2022 by Gary_Ash (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Thanks Gary. Until I read your post I hadn't even thought of defining the taper that way but I am certain you are right. When I compared it to my taper gauges I came up with something between 3 and 4 so we must be close. fortunately, they are only welded on one side of each of the 4 arms so with a proper gauge it should be possible to file them back into shape. It will be a fussy job and I'll have to get new new, high-quality files but that's easy compared to not having a plan. The plate is 12x12 and the OD of the hub is between 4.5 and 4.75. I can't say I remember that right now but it's easy enough to measure. Would it be better if I just mailed you the good one to measure? Edited March 7, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 No need to mail the steel. I'll lay out a couple of templates and you can see what comes close. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send a PDF file for you to print out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Here's what the taper gauges look like. You can cut out the fingers and see which matches the slot in the hub best. When you get the PDF, print it out actual size. I made the narrow end of the fingers 1.00 inch, so if the narrow end of the slot is wider, just trim off the end of the finger (or fold over) until you get a good fit. You can also use the other part of the cutout to check fit on those four arms. There should be enough range of sizes to find one good enough. If not, let me know. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) This has been one of those "two steps forward, one step back" days. I knocked the bearing race out of the hub. The notches I put in were critical here and they worked as intended. I then put the hub in the lathe. I knew it wasn't perfectly square but wanted to know how far out it was. For this I indicated the back of the hub and then the edge of the sleeve. The hub ran out about .010...about what you'd expect. The sleeve ran out .050 meaning it's cocked slightly so I decided it had to come out...how was the problem. The fast way would be to cut it out with a torch but that runs the risk of damaging the hub. I chose to bore it out. Obviously, this will ruin it but it's ruined in any case. With that done, I re-indicated it using the ID of the hub where the bearing sits. The base of the bearing "socket" left something to be desired...I must have been tired when I did it and didn't notice the flaws. In any case, I then used this heavy boring bar and a special tool I ground to re-cut the bottom of the bearing seat leaving a much larger flat area. Fortunately, I actually have two more of the sleeve/bearing race units, the ones I first made. I could have used them but thought I could do better. One is slightly better than the other but both would work so while I've lost a day. I don't have to start from scratch again. I am reconsidering the shrink fitting and will probably go with a very light press and Locktite to hold the sleeves in. I may have to regrind some of the others but this is all part of the process. Working with worn — and often not terribly well made parts often calls for re-thinking methods. Edited March 7, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) After yesterday's debacle, things went much better today. I figured out what I'd done wrong...another case where I wrote some numbers down in the wrong order...a problem I've always had. The first ring was too big, even with the expansion from heating the hub. Rather than regrind the remaining one, I went back to the first ones I'd made (which were the right dimensions). This one pressed in without an issue. I then moved over to the lathe to check how true it was running and to trim the end down... It fit as well as I could have hoped...with the plate about .020 low — hardly noticeable and of no consequence to it working fine. The hole in the first hub is bell-mouthed — which is why I didn't notice that the ring was oversize. It slipped in but refused to press the remainder of the way. The hole in the second hub is better so, after carefully remeasuring everything, I heated it. This time the expansion made the difference. In fact, I only went to about 400 degrees because the rings slipped in easily most of the way. I seated it in the press... And then trimmed it like the first hub. If anything, this one is even better... I didn't bother with the Locktite...between the press fit and the set screws the rings aren't going anywhere. Tomorrow I'll go on to the front bearings. They are a little more challenging because they seat down inside the hub and have to be trimmed to size before they go in. They also have the thinnest walls so I have to be very careful how I handle them. Edited March 8, 2022 by JV Puleo typo (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) Now for the front bearings. I started by cleaning up the bearing seat with my improved tool and reducing the remnant of the curved section at the bottom to the smallest possible measurement. Then I put the sleeves in the lathe and cut a relief at the bottom end. After which, I turned them around and trimmed them to the finished length. As soon as I finished one hub I put it on the burner to heat it up. It takes forever and even after several hours it still wasn't up to the desired 600 degrees. Because I was impatient I wanted to see if I was getting anywhere so I flipped it over and lowered one of the sleeves into it... Much to my surprise, it fell right in! As soon as it was cool enough to handle, I rough assembled it on the spindle... And much to my relief, it fit just about perfectly and turned easily...no drag and no sign of it being crooked. I put the other hub on the burner but there isn't enough time for it to really heat up so I'll leave that for tomorrow. There is still a lot more to do but the fact that this part of the job seems to be coming out correct is a huge relief. Edited March 9, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Bearing fits, spacers and sleeves to improve and repair items like this is always concerning. You have done well. Al 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Thanks Al. There is no question that this is demanding work and the sort of thing that no one who hasn't worked on brass cars would even think of. I think it is complicated by the fact that Mitchell used the cheapest parts available — the parts that were already obsolete — or getting to that point. So far it has worked out but I attribute that as much to luck as to skill. There are several places where I had to guess and, so far, I've guessed right but we won't know the final outcome for a while. I have another part on this rear end to repair that will be just as much a challenge and have been thinking about how to approach it for weeks... Edited March 10, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Keep up your creative thinking. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 I started today by slitting the holding ring I'd made. Then into the lathe to shorten the sleeves. Now about 3/4" of thread shows. And the locking nut screws on properly, The two thin sleeves weren't the same length so for the second one I measured first one and marked it with this antique depth vernier. While doing this the hub was heating. I'm not satisfied with the propane burner for this. It just isn't getting it hot enough so I've thought of another way to do it. But, since it was the end of the day I took a chance and tried pressing it in. It did work...and the sleeve and bearing race seated perfectly but I'll do something else for the front hubs. That completes the bearing sleeves for the rear hubs. I put it together and it worked just as well as the first one. I did discover that I made the thin sleeves just a hair too long...the nut is hitting them before it hits the bearing so tomorrow I'll shorten them about .025 and go on to soldering the "repair holes" in place and facing them off. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Today I soldered in the "replacement hole" inserts. The solder is just there to hold them in place while I turn them down. since they are threaded, they really can't come out. Then into the lathe too cut them flush with the surface. The big flange isn't perfectly flat so I stopped a few thousandths from hitting it and finished dressing them with files. There are still a few more bits to do on the rear hubs I thought I could now go on to the front hubs. As I said yesterday, I'm not satisfied with the propane stove...it just doesn't get the piece hot enough. The problem with using a torch to do this is that its difficult to heat it evenly all around. To deal with that, I'm making a sort of heavy duty "Lazy Susan" so I can hold the torch on the piece and turn it at the same time. I started with a piece of 1-1/2 bar drilled and reamed to 1". I'm combining this with the base for the honing fixture I started and abandoned a few weeks ago... It's very simple...but I'll finish it tomorrow. I also have to clean my truck up in preparation for driving to Baltimore next Friday. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 As I said, this was a very simple tool... And like many simple things...it worked perfectly. Of course, I can 't heat the piece and turn it and take a picture at the same time so you'll have to trust me on that. I heated the hub until the sleeve fell in...not all the way, but close enough to press it the remainder. It takes a lot less time too! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) I've been sidetracked by some other projects that need immediate attention but I did get a few hours in the shop today. I started by re-cutting the seats for the sleeves and bearing races. I wasn't completely satisfied with them and since I did them I've made a new, and much better, tool. These are measurably cleaner and I have a larger flat bottom to the pocket. Then I trimmed the sleeve that I inserted a few days ago... I also re-cut the seat for the other small bearing sleeve. I'd pressed this one in but wasn't happy with the way it seated. Luckily, I was able to get it out without damaging it. In this case I indicated the inner surface of the original bearing pocket. Although the picture is out of focus, you can see the nicks and gouges in the original hub. There isn't much I can do about that but the new sleeve should have a good surface and be perfectly round - which this one isn't. Then I heated the hub and the sleeve fell right in. I put it in the press to make sure it was firmly seated while it cooled down. When I went started trimming it, the sleeve moved slightly. Again, the result of the original pocket being worn and out of round. I was able to get it out again and press it in using some Locktite press fit. But, it takes 72 hours to cure to full strength so trimming it will have to wait. In any case, I won't be able to work in the shop tomorrow and I'm away from Friday morning to Sunday evening so this will have to do for the time being. Edited March 16, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) I think this is the longest stretch I've had without posting something on this project. I was in Baltimore last weekend and when I got back, on Monday, I finished the sleeve I'd pressed in with Locktite. But, the city is hounding us over a strip of land next to our parking lot...as I've said before, this is not the best neighborhood and the locals sometimes dump their trash there. The truth is, most of it was buried in leaves and undergrowth so I wasn't even aware of it. They are threatening my friend, who owns the building, with fines if he doesn't clean it up so we rented a dumpster and I have spent about four days pulling out junk and cutting down small trees. Maybe if the area is clear it will be less attractive. As it was, it's a favorite "dark spot" for the drunks, drug addicts and prostitutes. Monday I also turned a rebate on each of the two remaining sleeves — for the large bearings in the front hubs on Monday... And went about pressing them in. It looks as if the holes are bell- mouthed also and, after three tries I got the first sleeve thoroughly stuck. I wasn't in the mood to think about how to get it out so I went back to picking up trash... It rained today so it wasn't ideal for trash clearing so I had the time to think about the problem and finally got it out. I've decided to put these back in the lathe and grind another .005 off the OD. I think that should work even if I have to use Locktite to hold them securely. I'm not certain when I'll get back to this though. I also have a job I'm doing for the foundry next door. This is a mold for making cores... The foundry guys have been a real godsend when it comes to making parts that look right so I always do what I can to help them in return. Edited March 24, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Cleaning that up doesn't sound like a lot of fun at all!! Work on the "other side" of the shop (foundry) looks like fun. Your last picture shows a couple neat tricks. I have a couple of those couplers and I wondered what they were for... never thought of using them to double up the reach. Edited March 25, 2022 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 I think it might be the first time I've used them. This piece is very hard to hold securely...I'm not all that happy with it now but having started the cut I have to go with it. I'm milling a slot 3/4" wide and 3/4" deep and the piece really wants to vibrate if I take more an a .025 cut. When I've finished this slot I'll re-think the holding system. I have an idea how it can be improved. The slots are being milled so the mold can be used in a machine they have. I suspect it was made for a different machine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Joe, thank you so much for sharing this with us , every step is just so very very interesting! The education is outstanding and appreciation of what it takes to recreate with great respect what would have , could have been lost as debris. Thank you my friend from all of us. Walt Gosden 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 I was finally able to get back to my Mitchell project this afternoon. I've decided to re-grind the front hub sleeves so I set up the grinder again. I actually took .009 off the OD and it still did not fit as well as I'd like when I took it off and tried it. I may have gotten away with pressing it but I had so much trouble getting the stuck sleeve out that I hesitated to take the chance. Tomorrow I'll take another .002 or even .003 off. If I have to rely on Locktite to hold them securely that's a lot better than getting them hopelessly stuck and starting over. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 If my shop were on a street, that street name would have to be "Hopelessly Stuck". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 29, 2022 Author Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) Today I re-ground the sleeve about .003 smaller and pressed it in. This went perfectly... Then I ground the 2nd sleeve to the dimensions I'd worked out. And when I pressed it in...the hub collapsed. I can't say I've ever seen anything like this. I wouldn't have thought my press was that powerful (It's only a 20 ton). So...this leaves me with a new project...making the front hubs. I have some ideas but I'm going to think about this for a while. I don't need them right away so I'll resist the temptation to charge ahead. My first thought was to to get them cast in 356T6 with the flange thicker...this should be strong enough and, because I'm on good terms with the foundry I could get them done very reasonably. The flange is the tough part. Turning them out of solid bar would require a piece about 8" in diameter and take days. My next thought was to make them out of 12L14 and thread the flange on and, so far, I like that idea the best. If I make them out of steel they will be heavier than the originals because I'll dispense with the space the cores took up but having a uniform, reamed hole in the center will make all of the other operations much easier. In any case, I'm open to suggestions. I'm just thankful that it was a front hub that was ruined. Making the rear hubs would have been much more challenging. And, as a note to the above. One of the forum members called me this morning and explained why the sockets are bell-shaped...which is by design rather than slipshod workmanship. It's because they used drawn cup bearings. They were cheap and slightly flexible and it was the slight taper that held them in place. They aren't terribly precise so they were easy to assemble and forgiving of slight miss-alignment. But...and it is important, they were made of carbon steel and simply case hardened. When the case wears through the cups deteriorate very rapidly. (All of mine were broken.) If you simply replace the balls with new ones you run the risk of exacerbating this since the new balls are probably harder than the remaining hardened surface on the races. I think that if I were going to do that I'd use unhardened balls. They would wear out quicker but they wouldn't damage the race and they are cheap and easy to replace. Edited March 29, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Joe: How about casting new hubs in steel? In another thread, @jdome suggested Harbor Casting in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio as a place that would do low volume parts in metals including carbon steels and 4140-4340 steels, etc. I think I could 3D print two patterns for you to be used for investment casting, wouldn't require much finish machining. An 8 inch diameter x 9 inches high is about as big as I can do as a 3D print, but that should be enough for your hub. What does one of those hubs weigh? See https://www.harborinvestmentcastings.com/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 29, 2022 Author Share Posted March 29, 2022 Thanks Gary. I'll measure the flange tomorrow. They are just short of 6" tall. I'd put a uniform hole through the center...probably 2" or a little larger. Do you have any idea how a steel casting would thread? That's important because I'd still have to thread for the hub cap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 My guess is that threading a 4140 steel casting would be easier than a silicon bronze casting. I think you need to ask the question at the foundry. The splined hubs on my Studebaker Indy car were machined from forged 4340 steel billet, complete with 110 fine splines and various threads. I think cast 4140 would be even easier, but still tough enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Greg Coleman from chevy shop has cast a lot of steel parts for me like my free wheeling lever. Not sure if he could cast something that large. If Gary made the plug he might be able to do it. His pricing is very reasonable also. (Not sure why my fonts changed to these heavy black letters) Greg Coleman Chevy shop custom casting 815-225-7565 gcoleman@frontier.com 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 I like the idea of a casting but as I work out the machining details it presents some difficult problems, the worst of which is how to get both sockets for the bearing races in perfect alignment when the outside of the hub is not a machined surface and can't be indicated accurately (or not accurately enough). I have an idea how it was done originally but it includes machines that I don't have...they were big machines too. If the hub was cast with a perhaps a 1-1/2" hole through the center it might be doable as the hole could be bored and reamed and everything else taken off that starting point...but that might still leave a machining problem for the outboard bearing seat. Still, It's coming together and I'm not going to rush into this. I'll get some measurements and perhaps make a rough drawing and get some approximate prices. I know what the raw materials will cost to machine it from bar so I'll have something to compare them too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 ALL of you who are reading this take note : thanks to Joe P. and the many skilled people who can operate lathes and other machinery to replicate new parts to replace the broken and worn ones of a century ago are doing us all a great service by taking the time to let us all know with words and pictures exactly how to do this. I am constantly amazed at what I see and read here. THANK YOU GENTLEMEN for all you are sharing. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 This morning my brother-in-law helped me pick up a wood chipper I'd bought. We brought it to the shop and while there he was looking at the damaged hub. This got me to thinking if there was a way to fix it. (He thinks I can fix just about anything.) That would have a lot of advantages...it would be cheaper and the other front hub is fine so there is only one to do. I started by pressing the two pieces apart. The wall thickness of the lower part is about 1/4". If I can bore it concentric with the bearing seat I could make a new "nose" for the hub and press it in. Before I can do that I needed to remove the sleeve and race that was now firmly stuck. After an hour of heating and hammering I decided to cut it out with a torch. This obviously ruins both parts but they were useless in any case. Then I put the big chuck on the lathe and very carefully indicated the original bearing seat. We know it's both tapered and out of round so this was time consuming but I eventually got it to read "0" on 3 of the 4 points I take the readings from. The other one is about .005 out, probably due to it being egg shaped... Then I turned the projection at the rear of the hub to get it round and concentric with the hole. I'll need this surface to grip the hub as I go forward so it requires parallel sides. Since it was just a casting, it was a good .070 out of round on the OD. There will be more tomorrow. I'll have to order some bar to make the new nose from but I want to see how well this goes before I do that. There are some other alignment tools I'll have to make if this looks like it will work but I think I have a workable plan. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) That's got to hurt ! I am surprised at how thin the metal is where the hub shell cracked. If anyone can work out a repair I am sure it will be you. I wonder if the axle / hubs were actually made by Mitchell or if they were a bought in component ? It may be that hub was used on a few different makes / models and you might find a replacement. The axles on my Staver are Sheldon , rear for sure but I think front as well. Given the links between Staver and Mitchell It might be possible your axles are also Shelden . And if they are, most likely not unique to your car. Sheldon was not nearly as large an outfit as Timken, but still I think they had a reasonably large market share. Edited March 31, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) I'm pretty certain the axles were a bought-in component so finding another one is possible but I'm too inpatient to spend years doing that...at least if I can think of another way around the problem. Yes, the metal is quite thin ... much thinner than it is anywhere else on the hub which leads me to think it's more a casting flaw than anything else. Perhaps the core was sitting a bit too high in the mold... Oh, and thanks for that tip about Sheldon. I was pretty sure Mitchell didn't make the axles and they don't look like a Timkin product so I've wondered who did make them. It's worth looking into, if only for informative purposes. Edited March 31, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Here is a link from a fellow doing a great restoration of a 1912 Michigan . His car uses the same rear axle as my Staver. He has done a good job of researching and documenting Sheldon. https://michiganmotorcar.com/so-whats-the-diff-maybe-sheldon-axle/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 Thanks...That rear axle is very different from the Mitchell. My front axle is a Lemoine type and is fairly unusual on American cars. The only reference I've seen to it in the US is on Wintons. I started today by boring out the web at the base of the bearing socket. This was just to get it round (which it wasn't) and to allow more room to work if needed. I also tried boring in back gears which is generally the way you do cast iron. I hadn't done that before because it's malleable iron but it is case and I should have been doing it all along because it produced a really superior finish. Then I went on to the really fussy part, boring out the bell shape and getting the socket round. This is the second .010 cut and you can still see how chewed up and tapered the socket was. I had to take four cuts of .010 to clean it up meaning I've enlarged the ID by .080. No wonder nothing fit! It did come out fine though and since the ring I'll insert will reinforce it, I'm not worried about strength. Then, because the day wasn't over, I trimmed the ring on the other front hub. This one is actually done now... I'll have to put this aside until I get some materials. I didn't want to order them before I did the work in case it didn't look as if it would work but so far, it has gone according to plan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Interesting to hear your axle is a Lemoine type. I doubt very many axle makers would have even had one available in their catalog. I think you are correct about the chances of finding a replacement hub, a very long shot . I expect your axle assy. has a good chance of being unique to your model of Mitchell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 1, 2022 Author Share Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) The irony of the hub dilemma is that I had another one but gave it away because I couldn't see what use it would be. My guess is that the previous owner got it because he'd screwed up the holes in the one that was on the car but I didn't discover that until I took the hub out. Still, I'm pretty confident my fix will work and, if it doesn't, I'll pursue making new hubs. Because the hub repair was an unplanned event, I'm stuck waiting on materials. In the meantime I'm making the tools I'll need when the materials arrive, starting with a threading fixture for the new hub "nose". Rather than make it from scratch, I just machined off the broken part of the original. When I make the new part I'll be threading it on a mandrel. For that I'll need a gauge that will slip over the mandrel and can be tried on the newly cut thread. Obviously, I can't do that with a hub cap and I can't take it out of the lathe until the thread is cut. It's best to make these out of steel or bronze but in this case, because it's a "one-time" use toll and I have the material, I'm making it out of aluminum. Bored out to the minor diameter of the thread...and with the threading tool set up. I finished this at 5 PM and I'd just as soon not do a fussy threading job at the end of the day so this will wait until tomorrow or Monday. The hub caps are nothing to write home about. I have a full set and I think I can save the front caps although they do not thread on easily. I suspect they are a bit egg-shaped and the threads aren't perfect but I think I can lap them to the hubs if I am careful. The rear hub caps are another story altogether. One looks as if it was taken off (or put on) with a pipe wrench. It's badly chewed up and dented so that it will never thread on properly. Also, they are a particularly critical part, literally holding the axle, and the cross shaped piece that connects the axle to the hub, together. I will probably make new ones...exactly how is still a question but I want to make them in such a way that they can lock onto the hub. Edited April 1, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 2, 2022 Author Share Posted April 2, 2022 My plans for today got screwed up...so, since I was in the shop I threaded the gauge I was making yesterday... The thread is just about perfect so if I match the new piece for the hub to it, the hub caps should fit. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 4, 2022 Author Share Posted April 4, 2022 (edited) Today I took the threading fixture out and turned it around attached to the remnants of the original hub, then trimmed and knurled it. The knurl puts a lot of pressure on the threads so that when it was done, I couldn't unscrew it. The answer was to hold a propane torch on it while it was turning. Because aluminum expands quite a bit it didn't have to get all that hot to come off easily. Then I made a sacrificial ring to go over the hub. Here's the problem...I am going to make a tool to indicate the the hub so I can bore it for the new "nose." But, in order to bore it I'll have to take the tool out, meaning I'll have to take it out of the chuck, so how do I put it back in exactly the same place? The OD of the hub isn't really round to the tolerances needed to indicate it and you can't take anything off because it fits into the wheel. This ring is my solution...bored to fit over the hub. Then about 1" was cut off. The cutting off actually took longer than the boring. And slipped over the hub... I then drilled and tapped it for three pointed set screws that are short enough to sit well below the surface. After I have indicated the hub alignment tool I'll take a very light cut off this ring...just enough to get a smooth surface all around. Then, when I remove the hub from the chuck I'll have an accurate surface to indicate for the boring. A few of the bits I'd ordered also came in so I started on the alignment tool. Edited April 4, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 6, 2022 Author Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) I had to leave early yesterday so didn't get to post my regular update but I drilled and reamed the alignment tool to 1-1/2" Then mounted it on a mandrel...I'm using the mandrel because, even though the lathe turns a slight taper, it will be perfectly round plus, I can take it out of the lathe and put it back without altering anything and, in this case, I need to be able to turn the entire OD. It was turned to fit into the hub... Then back in the lathe to have on end turned down to fit through the broken hub. It actually slipped in so there is probably .001 clearance all around...you can tell the clearance is very small because it has to be perfectly straight to go in and there is no "play" in the fit. Then it was assembled with the hub and indicated. The very smooth finish was important here because I wanted the indicating to be as accurate as I could make it...it may be out .0005 but even that is problematical. I then turned the sacrificial ring to get it concentric with the bore of the hub. After which, I took it out of the chuck to remove the alignment tool. I even went so far as to use Dychem on the jaw of the chuck and hub to make certain I put it back exactly where it was. The first step was to turn off the broken parts... Then I set up the boring bar and started on the ID. Of course, it's out of round and a rough cast surface. Still, it appears to be coming in better than I'd expected. When done, the wall thickness will be slightly less than 1/4" which is more than enough, especially as the piece that goes in this hole will also have a wall thickness of about .200. Edited April 6, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 I finished up the boring this morning. This came out very good. Then I started to solder in the "repair holes". For some reason the solder was balling up and wouldn't flow properly so, lacking the patience to fool with it, I put them in with Locktite. I wanted to let that set so I went on the the sleeves that will go on the front spindles and hole the inner roller bearing. I decided to make these from some "mystery metal" I have. Lately my regular suppliers have been so slow in shipping that, even though this stuff is really to big, I might as well use it. I cut two pieces a little longer than 2". Very little of this metal will be left when I'm done. I started by drilling and reaming to 1-1/2" Then trimmed to exactly 2" long. These will need some more fitting because the base of the spindle isn't perfect. I'll use an adjustable reamer to open them up just a few thousandths. It's a fussy job so I'll do that when I get in tomorrow. But rather than start that I put the hub back in the lathe to trim the repair holes. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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